Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[Saint]

The russian war has nothing to do with capitalism and profits. Many of the oligarchs have lost fortunes as a result of the russian war. Their assets all frozen in the west. They were all deeply against the war.

The russian war is about nationalism and conquest.

Of course it is. The oligarchs want the resources of the Black Sea, Crimea and western Ukraine.

It's always the problem with regimes run by oligarchies. When you hand out the spoils, they soon run out and in-fighting begins. If you can expand the available patronage, you can wield more power and grant more favours.

What other reason is there for Russia to invade? It's certainly not to protect the people of either Donetsk or Russia.

 

[Rob R]

This I disagree with. China isn't ready just yet to attack Taiwan. Removing Russia from the board now, by supplying Ukraine with long range missiles gets towards a situation where if China DOES want to invade Taiwan it's US + Europe standing against them, rather than European countries worried about Russia still being a credible threat to them. Which obviously provides China with a greater deterrent from invading and reduced odds of success if they do.

Ukraine has shown that Russia couldn't defeat even a fraction of NATOs full strength especially when it is clear the Russian people aren't supporting his aggression. Poland and the other border states can easily hold the line leaving France, Italy, Spain, UK to reinforce the Japanese, Koreans, Philippinos, Taiwanese, Yanks in defeating Xi's attacks.

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Edited to fix my grammatical errors.

Thanks

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Nurries Rob, and thanks for taking it in the spirit it was intended. We had a campaigner on here a year or two back who insisted on calling it "The Ukraine", as to him it historically represented a region, like "The Outback" or "The Snowies", as opposed to a nation, and I didn't want you to be confused with that bollocks.

Keep up the great posts mate.

 

[Zidane98]

Unsurprisingly Tim Pool has been outed in the TENET media scandal (paid by Kremlin to spread disinformation in western societies):

 

[Chief]

Unsurprisingly Tim Pool has been outed in the TENET media scandal (paid by Kremlin to spread disinformation in western societies):

Almost everything this bloke posts matches to a tee what certain posters on here post. An unfortunate coincidence.

I have absolutely wasted my time this morning picking out some key points from multiple articles:

Society/Culture - Woke. Can you tell real from parody? - Part 2 -

I basically think of it as a recently created religion. Where the only people recognising it are the ones rallying against it, but also can't define it?

www.bigfooty.com

In one instance, the indictment said, one of the RT employees asked the company to produce a video that would blame Ukraine and the United States for a mass shooting at a Moscow music venue, the justice department said, even though Islamic State had claimed responsibility. A company founder responded that one of the commentators is “happy to cover it”, according to the indictment.

US conservative influencers say they are ‘victims’ of Russian disinformation campaign

Tim Pool, Dave Rubin and Benny Johnson addressed allegations that a company they were associated with had been paid to publish videos with messages in favour of Russia

www.theguardian.com

 

[Zidane98]

I have absolutely wasted my time this morning picking out some key points from multiple articles:

Society/Culture - Woke. Can you tell real from parody? - Part 2 -

I basically think of it as a recently created religion. Where the only people recognising it are the ones rallying against it, but also can't define it?

www.bigfooty.com

Careful, the Kremlin might put you on the unfriendly to Russia list!

 

[Zidane98]

Here's the vatnik social media sub twitter network uncovered

 

[Jamolad]

What, Scott Ritter pro-Russian?

I do feel for the guys that have been doing it here for free, that just found out they could have been getting paid.

 

[Rob R]

Careful, the Kremlin might put you on the unfriendly to Russia list!

One of the frequent and most fanatical Putin/Xi bots in this forum has probably already developed a list to pass on although I think being on an anti Putin, Xi and/or Trump list would be a badge of honour

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Zidane98]

What, Scott Ritter pro-Russian?

I do feel for the guys that have been doing it here for free, that just found out they could have been getting paid.

I was also totally shocked to find Tucker Carlson on the diagram.

 

[petrie pie]

Ukraine has shown that Russia couldn't defeat even a fraction of NATOs full strength especially when it is clear the Russian people aren't supporting his aggression. Poland and the other border states can easily hold the line leaving France, Italy, Spain, UK to reinforce the Japanese, Koreans, Philippinos, Taiwanese, Yanks in defeating Xi's attacks.

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app

You are joking are,nt you you should stop watching sky news and fox news and really see watch is happening to Urkraine and probably would happen to the rest of Nato countries probably the US also if they felt like invading Russia.

As has been explained here before this started when the US engineered a coup in 2014 and Urkraine and Zelensky,s government started bombing Russian speakers in the Donbass region.

Russia has had hard fighting for 2yrs and has the full support of the Russian people as is evidence by the number of new recruits, well trained well armed and I think a belief in what Puttin tells them.Then contrast this with Urkraine who are having to grab old men and women to fight for them and then have a look at recruitment in the west and then get back to me you have absolutely no idea what going on in the rest of the world do you?.

 

[petrie pie]

Here's the vatnik social media sub twitter network uncovered




View attachment 2102335

God where is Alexander Mercouri and Alex Christophorou when you need them let alone Norm Finkelstein.

Ps you do realise that Pavlov is a CIA stooge.

 

[Syd]

God where is Alexander Mercouri and Alex Christophorou when you need them let alone Norm Finkelstein.

Ps you do realise that Pavlov is a CIA stooge.

And here I just thought he was his dogs handler...

 

[Mobbs]

And Jackson Hinkle. I am aghast.

On SM-A146P using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Visions]

You are joking are,nt you you should stop watching sky news and fox news and really see watch is happening to Urkraine and probably would happen to the rest of Nato countries probably the US also if they felt like invading Russia.

As has been explained here before this started when the US engineered a coup in 2014 and Urkraine and Zelensky,s government started bombing Russian speakers in the Donbass region.

Russia has had hard fighting for 2yrs and has the full support of the Russian people as is evidence by the number of new recruits, well trained well armed and I think a belief in what Puttin tells them.Then contrast this with Urkraine who are having to grab old men and women to fight for them and then have a look at recruitment in the west and then get back to me you have absolutely no idea what going on in the rest of the world do you?.

Well trained, well armed, 2nd best army in the world, blah blah blah.

Yet a 3 day war against ONE so call inferior neighbour is running 2 years in, hundreds of thousands of Russian casualties and we’re currently at a situation where Russia itself has been invaded by the old men and woman you’re apparently talking about and lost territory and cant expel them. How ****ing embarrassing to do that against pensioners…..

But, hey be warned NATO and especially the United States, Russia will take you to the cleaners if you tried to engage with them by walking victoriously backwards.

 

[sdfc]

Well trained, well armed, 2nd best army in the world, blah blah blah.

Yet a 3 day war against ONE so call inferior neighbour is running 2 years in, hundreds of thousands of Russian casualties and we’re currently at a situation where Russia itself has been invaded by the old men and woman you’re apparently talking about and lost territory and cant expel them. How ****ing embarrassing to do that against pensioners…..

But, hey be warned NATO and especially the United States, Russia will take you to the cleaners if you tried to engage with them by walking victoriously backwards.

Which is why the narrative that Russia has to be stopped in Ukraine or they'll invade NATO members next is bollocks.

 

[Zidane98]

Which is why the narrative that Russia has to be stopped in Ukraine or they'll invade NATO members next is bollocks.

The same narrative was said after Russia invaded Georgia.

 

[Zidane98]

Collingwood making a late charge up the vatnik league table. Unlike the AFL team.

 

[Visions]

Which is why the narrative that Russia has to be stopped in Ukraine or they'll invade NATO members next is bollocks.

That is an accurate statement, now.

Wasn’t always like that though. Prior to the 3 day war, the western world feared Russia was some mythical great modern army. War game simulations in Poland had Russia destroying its air force, the majority of its equipment and reaching Warsaw in a few days.

We now know that would have been bullshit.

The real narrative is Russia needs to be stopped in Ukraine otherwise The Ukrainian existence ceases to exist.

 

[sdfc]

That is an accurate statement, now.

Wasn’t always like that though. Prior to the 3 day war, the western world feared Russia was some mythical great modern army. War game simulations in Poland had Russia destroying its air force, the majority of its equipment and reaching Warsaw in a few days.

We now know that would have been bullshit.

It was always bullshit. That Nato would fk Russia up was never in doubt.

The real narrative is Russia needs to be stopped in Ukraine otherwise The Ukrainian existence ceases to exist.

How long does this war have to go on before Russian is pushed out. How many people will die before that happens?

 

[Visions]

It was always bullshit. That Nato would fk Russia up was never in doubt.

A lot of so called educated people didn't share the same sentiment.

How long does this war have to go on before Russian is pushed out. How many people will die before that happens?

Well, it would help if Ukraine weren't so hamstrung by the restrictions imposed on it by countries like the US. Give them everything they need and allow them to fight fire with fire. Then we will know if it can happen. At the very least it will give them a fighting chance to push the Russians out, rather than this drip feeding them scraps here and there.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Collingwood making a late charge up the vatnik league table. Unlike the AFL team.

Give 'em a break Zid, they're the two that managed to pass the Naplan testing.

 

[MrKK]

A lot of so called educated people didn't share the same sentiment.


Well, it would help if Ukraine weren't so hamstrung by the restrictions imposed on it by countries like the US. Give them everything they need and allow them to fight fire with fire. Then we will know if it can happen. At the very least it will give them a fighting chance to push the Russians out, rather than this drip feeding them scraps here and there.

The answer to both these things is the same. Military spending to maintain/expand NATO capabilities and fight wars is tremendously beneficial to the US.

In the current Ukraine war they have the perfect situation - the money rolls in while some other country gets wrecked and their young men killed, while their eternal enemy Is being weakened more the longer it goes on. They don't want a quick win for either side.

 

[Mobbs]

The answer to both these things is the same. Military spending to maintain/expand NATO capabilities and fight wars is tremendously beneficial to the US.

In the current Ukraine war they have the perfect situation - the money rolls in while some other country gets wrecked and their young men killed, while their eternal enemy Is being weakened more the longer it goes on. They don't want a quick win for either side.

First time I've seen you post here MrKK but I'm fully aware you've been nearby

Dunno about the first paragraph so much but agree entirely with the second one. This is why imo Ukraine needs to accept fishing tutorials more readily than baskets of fish. If they truly want to resist Russian expansion, they ultimately cannot rely on external support, as those support networks have selfish goals at the forefront, and humanitarian goals only play a part when voter pressure demands it (obv each individual might have their own compassion but that's rarely a driver).

Stories about Ukrainians developing their own military resources always inspire me much quicker than stories about collection plate deliveries from without.

My favourite scenario right now is that Russia aborts the invasion but unfortunately I'm living in this universe, not that one. And reliance on resources that are subject to the political tempests in other parts of the world ... well it's just too fluid and unreliable. I think if Ukraine wants to target things the US won't let them do with US resources, then Ukraine needs to focus more on producing its own military capabilities. (They are clearly doing this but it must be accelerated).

 

[Mobbs]

Here's a video of Ukrainian drones taking out Russian drones through ramming into them. It's very impressive and says a lot about where things seem to be going these days. I believe some of the footage repeats, there might not be quite as many instances as the video suggests! But it definitely happens.

There was another video recently of a drone with a mounted machine gun firing on ground positions! I can't imagine how it can be accurate enough (I know not every country deals with Australia level internet lag but come on!) If I find it, I'll share it.

A perfect Saturday morning soundtrack too. The text at the start essentially translates to "Sky" or "Heaven" depending on whose side you're on!
View attachment IMG_8037.mp4