Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[barreness]

Who is the one escalating here, in your mind?

In the case of NK, SK contributing to the war? Both I'd say, chipping in artillery. Now NK more with adding troops; if they turn up on the front

Should South Korea go too?

 

[Zidane98]

In the case of NK, SK contributing to the war? Both I'd say, chipping in artillery. Now NK more with adding troops; if they turn up on the front

Should South Korea go too?

SK should not send troops nor should any state not directly affected by the war.


The nations that should send troops in (eventually if Putin doesn't give up) are the ones who are directly affected by Russian aggression / Russian occupation of Ukraine.

That would be Finland, Baltics, Poland, Romania, Moldova. They all have a security interest in Russia being pushed out of Ukraine / losing the war and all would be justified in sending troops under international law if Russia persists as all other forms of mediation have been exhausted.

 

[Visions]

Guitterez accepted an invite to BRICS summit on Kazan.

On SM-A146P using BigFooty.com mobile app

Might as well have someone representing the Monty Python Show.

Well here he is, refusing to go to a Ukrainian peace summit, but will go suck the you know what of war criminals.

 

[Visions]

Of course the Russian government has their grasping fingers in this pie. Nothing surer.

Despite all the bribery they still couldn't get it done.

Also the dumb idiots at the booths thinking they would get paid.

 

[barreness]

SK should not send troops nor should any state not directly affected by the war.


The nations that should send troops in (eventually if Putin doesn't give up) are the ones who are directly affected by Russian aggression / Russian occupation of Ukraine.

That would be Finland, Baltics, Poland, Romania, Moldova. They all have a security interest in Russia being pushed out of Ukraine / losing the war and all would be justified in sending troops under international law if Russia persists as all other forms of mediation have been exhausted.

So security interest means directly affected?

This gives consent for the Russian invasion in the first place doesn't it?

 

[Zidane98]

So security interest means directly affected?

This gives consent for the Russian invasion in the first place doesn't it?

Nope, Ukraine never was any threat to Russia, we all know this.

 

[barreness]

Nope, Ukraine never was any threat to Russia, we all know this.

God, this feels like primary school, take the next thought mate

Ukraine being western aligned and stationing CIA bases along the border was considered a security threat by Russia right?

 

[Zidane98]

God, this feels like primary school, take the next thought mate

Ukraine being western aligned and stationing CIA bases along the border was considered a security threat by Russia right?

Don't forget the biolabs with anti-Russian birds being bred and dirty bomb manufacturing comrade.

 

[Visions]

Oh, the Georgian and Belarusian elections have already been decided. If not, Russia will just (at least try) to invade anyway.

Russian Envoy: Moscow Will Help Lukashenka Quash 'Disorder' In 2025 Presidential Poll

Russian Ambassador to Belarus Boris Gryzlov said Moscow will provide assistance to Minsk -- which could include Russian boots on the ground -- if it is asked to help counter attempts to “destabilize” 2025 presidential elections.

www.rferl.org

 

[Chadwiko]

In the case of NK, SK contributing to the war? Both I'd say, chipping in artillery. Now NK more with adding troops; if they turn up on the front

Should South Korea go too?

So if North Korea goes to the front lines, and South Korea responds, is that not, by definition, North Korea being responsible for the escalation?

You penalise the instigator, not the responder.

 

[Visions]

God, this feels like primary school, take the next thought mate

Ukraine being western aligned and stationing CIA bases along the border was considered a security threat by Russia right?

But Finland doing the same allowing US troops and weapons (and with a longer border) was okay with the Kremlin....

 

[barreness]

Don't forget the biolabs with anti-Russian birds being bred and dirty bomb manufacturing comrade.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/25/world/europe/cia-ukraine-intelligence-russia-war.html
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/02/27/cia-secret-spy-bases-ukraine-russia-kyiv/

I'm bored, I've posted you these links multiple times. Pretty convinced you can't take on new information, like a bot at it's data limit

 

[Visions]

Yes dickhead, they are coming over to supply tea and coffee for the Russian troops....

Lets not allow weapons to hit Russian military targets because you know, some shit about escalation.

This is what happens when you have spineless pricks like Biden and his administration in the picture. Dictators will keep on doing what they want indefinitely because they see the US (and the west) as the impotent beings that they are.

 

[barreness]

So if North Korea goes to the front lines, and South Korea responds, is that not, by definition, North Korea being responsible for the escalation?

You penalise the instigator, not the responder.

Sure, in footy, and we all know how often that happens

Geopolitics is anarchic because no one has a monopoly on violence, you penalise who you can and respond when it won't receive too much backlash

 

[barreness]

Yes dickhead, they are coming over to supply tea and coffee for the Russian troops....

Lets not allow weapons to hit Russian military targets because you know, some shit about escalation.

This is what happens when you have spineless pricks like Biden and his administration in the picture. Dictators will keep on doing what they want indefinitely because they see the US (and the west) as the impotent beings that they are.

He's right though. They have provided artillery shells, a few missiles maybe, and rear end sappers at this stage.

'Long range missiles'. This is an escalation risk. If they're cruise missiles they need pretty in depth targeting plans, no one wants to give Ukraine the info to do this themselves. Ballistic missiles are similar and the satellite intel is all western backed. In reality these missiles would be planned and launched by NATO people, hence escalation

Artillery, drones, tanks are fine because that's a "here you go, have fun" weapon

 

[barreness]

But Finland doing the same allowing US troops and weapons (and with a longer border) was okay with the Kremlin....

There's bugger all US troops/ weapons going to Finland. They had the winter war and then the next one and lost both, no one is moving enough troops through Finland to take Moscow.

Through Central Europe is where Russia could be invaded from, Napoleon/WW1/WW2/Civil war

This will end up similar to the winter war and Ukraine will cede some territory, shame everyone involved had to blow a few years and whatever hundred thousand the death toll ends up

 

[Smeg Head]

There's bugger all US troops/ weapons going to Finland. They had the winter war and then the next one and lost both, no one is moving enough troops through Finland to take Moscow.

Through Central Europe is where Russia could be invaded from, Napoleon/WW1/WW2/Civil war

This will end up similar to the winter war and Ukraine will cede some territory, shame everyone involved had to blow a few years and whatever hundred thousand the death toll ends up

You are missing so much context to the winter war and the continuation war by conflating them with this invasion.

 

[Visions]

He's right though. They have provided artillery shells, a few missiles maybe, and rear end sappers at this stage.

'Long range missiles'. This is an escalation risk. If they're cruise missiles they need pretty in depth targeting plans, no one wants to give Ukraine the info to do this themselves. Ballistic missiles are similar and the satellite intel is all western backed. In reality these missiles would be planned and launched by NATO people, hence escalation

Artillery, drones, tanks are fine because that's a "here you go, have fun" weapon

Of course its an escalation risk. So is everything that has happened up until now on the Wests part. However Russia (and any other rogue dictator country) can do what they want and escalate without any retribution because the west is so far behind with their pussyfooting crap.

This time around its NK troops fighting for the Russians.

Next time Russia could drop a nuke and the US would do nothing but send a sternly worded letter to the Kremlin because they are spineless.

 

[wannabejack]

...

This will end up similar to the winter war and Ukraine will cede some territory, shame everyone involved had to blow a few years and whatever hundred thousand the death toll ends up

Shame the west didn’t supply Ukraine the weapons they needed to win the war early in the war but allowed the russians to build up their defences. The Ukraine death toll would be a lot less and wouldn’t need to consider ceding territory.
Shame the west don’t supply Ukraine the weapons they need to win the war now.

 

[barreness]

You are missing so much context to the winter war and the continuation war by conflating them with this invasion.

Go on then

 

[barreness]

Of course its an escalation risk. So is everything that has happened up until now on the Wests part. However Russia (and any other rogue dictator country) can do what they want and escalate without any retribution because the west is so far behind with their pussyfooting crap.

This time around its NK troops fighting for the Russians.

Next time Russia could drop a nuke

Would depend where they dropped it

and the US would do nothing but send a sternly worded letter to the Kremlin because they are spineless.

They fear escalation into a true nuclear war, as should everyone. I don't think bringing out the cuck accusations is that bright when the worst case scenario is billions dead and a mostly sterile planet

 

[barreness]

Shame the west didn’t supply Ukraine the weapons they needed to win the war early in the war

Which weapons?

but allowed the russians to build up their defences.

Defences in Ukraine?

The Minsk agreement certainly gave Ukraine time to build up their military, they slapped down the decapitation strike

The Ukraine death toll would be a lot less and wouldn’t need to consider ceding territory.
Shame the west don’t supply Ukraine the weapons they need to win the war now.

So why is that?

If you look at it cynically; Supplying Ukraine just enough weapons to keep bleeding Russia for as long as possible, it makes sense

Wouldn't be the first time freedom, democracy, and rules based order was obviously bullshit

 

[Aussie in exile]

Nk troops in russia now , wow

They will be cannon fodder.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Well here he is, refusing to go to a Ukrainian peace summit, but will go suck the you know what of war criminals.

A horrible human being.

 

[Mobbs]

So if North Korea goes to the front lines, and South Korea responds, is that not, by definition, North Korea being responsible for the escalation?

You penalise the instigator, not the responder.

Dunno man. Remember when Russia starts threatening to nuke everyone if they don't get what they want, that's everybody else's fault if they don't step on the right eggshells.