Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[wannabejack]

Which weapons?

Defences in Ukraine?

The Minsk agreement certainly gave Ukraine time to build up their military, they slapped down the decapitation strike

So why is that?

If you look at it cynically; Supplying Ukraine just enough weapons to keep bleeding Russia for as long as possible, it makes sense

Wouldn't be the first time freedom, democracy, and rules based order was obviously bullshit

Defences in Ukraine.
The Surovikin defensive works which “are the most extensive set of fortifications created in Europe since the end of the Second World War”.

Which weapons
Ukraine's military lacked weapons like modern fighter aircraft, which meant the russians could built their defence line and also without air superiority it was difficult to achieve breakthroughs in the defence line.

 

[Mobbs]

Ukraine's "I want to live" program has been translated into Korean.

Ukraine's 'I Want to Live' project posts Korean-language video message, calls on North Korean soldiers to surrender

Launched in September 2022 by Ukraine's Main Directorate of Intelligence, the 24-hour "I Want to Live" hotline helps Russian soldiers willingly surrender themselves or their units to the Ukrainian army.

kyivindependent.com

 

[jatz14]

In the case of NK, SK contributing to the war? Both I'd say, chipping in artillery. Now NK more with adding troops; if they turn up on the front

Should South Korea go too?

What is it exactly that SK is sending to Ukraine?

On SM-A346E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[RonSon]

Aside from the fact this is probs fake news.

Yah lets get it, WW3 baby, you wanted it and we will deliver by escalating. **** diplomacy or concession

LOL.

How is diplomacy or concession going to correct the issue presented by NK troops fighting against Ukraine?

 

[Visions]

Shame the west didn’t supply Ukraine the weapons they needed to win the war early in the war but allowed the russians to build up their defences. The Ukraine death toll would be a lot less and wouldn’t need to consider ceding territory.
Shame the west don’t supply Ukraine the weapons they need to win the war now.

US and the west have form. Same shit happened when the Croatians tried to secede from the Communist Yugoslav regime in the early 90’s.

US and the West instead of helping out instead thought an arms embargo was the initial way to go allowing the Yugoslav/Serbian army to do what they wanted taking large swathes of Croatian territory.

 

[Visions]

LOL.

How is diplomacy or concession going to correct the issue presented by NK troops fighting against Ukraine?

In their view give Ukraine up and NK troops go away.

Will be their same view whenever Russia threaten someone. Concessions to give Russia whatever they want.

They would have absolutely loved the Chechnya situation back in the day where Chechnya agreed to a ceasefire only to be attacked and overpowered a few years later.

 

[jatz14]

God, this feels like primary school, take the next thought mate

Ukraine being western aligned and stationing CIA bases along the border was considered a security threat by Russia right?

There are military bases in New Zealand, if Australia declared them a security threat, we would be justified in invading?

There are military bases in Russia, not far from the Finish, and now NATO border. If they were declared a security threat, NATO could take them out right?

Or, is it only Russian decelerations of insecurity as a pretext to war that we must take as valid?

I mean, there are about 10 000 artillery pieces pointed at the capital of SK, by a country they are actually at war with. This seems like a bit of a security threat to me.

If SK declared that the presence of NK troops, honing their military skills, studying how to invade a neighbouring country, was a direct security threat, you would be fine with SK getting involved in the Ukraine war wouldn't you?

After all, if Russian security concerns justified sending troops to Ukraine, against Ukraine's will, surely SK security concerns would justify sending troops to Ukraine, with Ukraine's agreement?

I think you are on a winner here. Ukraine just became a place that is a security concern to SK, and we know what has to happen when Ukraine is a security concern.

On SM-A346E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[EagleMan87]

LOL.

How is diplomacy or concession going to correct the issue presented by NK troops fighting against Ukraine?

By surrendering, obviously.

 

[wannabejack]

Ukraine Now Has Hundreds of F-16 Fighter Pilots

Eight more Ukrainian pilots graduated from the UK-based Royal Air Force Elementary Flying Training (EFT) program, bringing the total to 200, as part of Ukraine's preparation to fly the F-16 Fighting Falcon.

nationalinterest.org

The long-term intention of the Ukrainian EFTC program is to produce three trained pilots for every aircraft operated by Ukraine.

Ukraine could soon have the air power to take control of its skies, but it will first need the pilots trained and ready.

 

[Present Not Past]

By surrendering, obviously.

North Korean troops quickly learnt that they are nothing more than fodder for the Penal Battalions.
They fled.

 

[Visions]

A horrible human being.

Seems the despots of the world are becoming his only friends left.

 

[Visions]

Russian economy going great guns for the common citizen because of the military spending and the war!

Rates were just increased by another 2% and it aint over yet.

Imagine rates like this here on a $500K home loan.....

 

[Mobbs]

Reportedly this is combat on the Zaporizhzhe frontline. per [RST News TG]. Video has been compressed to meet Bigfooty's upload guidelines.

View attachment X2Twitter.com_4ziQGvwYYMHbmKvr_720p.mp4
Australian volunteers in the ranks of the Armed Forces repulse the assault of the USSR in the Zaporozhye direction.

The video seems to have been reposted from Twitter in case anyone wants to go searching for more info.

Edit: in the post's comments: "Give us more bushmasters!"

 

[barreness]

LOL.

How is diplomacy or concession going to correct the issue presented by NK troops fighting against Ukraine?

Diplomacy and concessions as far as this war goes. It's all over bar the shouting, just wrap it up

NK troops don't change anything is my argument

 

[barreness]

Defences in Ukraine.
The Surovikin defensive works which “are the most extensive set of fortifications created in Europe since the end of the Second World War”.

Oh ok, yes they were allowed to build up those, that's what happens when you occupy somewhere. Calling the front-line deep in Ukraine a defensive action is different from most counter arguments so I was confused

Which weapons
Ukraine's military lacked weapons like modern fighter aircraft, which meant the russians could built their defence line and also without air superiority it was difficult to achieve breakthroughs in the defence line.

Yes.

And what weapons could they supply that could create a chance for Ukraine to win a war against their much bigger and better armed neighbour. You're suggesting NATO go in full tilt, that's nuclear war in a week

 

[barreness]

There are military bases in New Zealand, if Australia declared them a security threat, we would be justified in invading?

There's no foreign military bases in NZ. If there were Chinese bases in NZ Australia and by extension the US would consider it a threat

The US would overthrow whatever NZ regime was in place if if they even considered that though

There are military bases in Russia, not far from the Finish, and now NATO border. If they were declared a security threat, NATO could take them out right?

Well yeh, that's a declaration of war though yes?

Or, is it only Russian decelerations of insecurity as a pretext to war that we must take as valid?

It doesn't matter if you think it's valid or not. Russia considers Ukraine a vassal state, the US got involved and Russia invaded

I mean, there are about 10 000 artillery pieces pointed at the capital of SK, by a country they are actually at war with. This seems like a bit of a security threat to me.

The reason they haven't moved it is because they're under the US nuclear umbrella as a vassal state

If SK declared that the presence of NK troops, honing their military skills, studying how to invade a neighbouring country, was a direct security threat, you would be fine with SK getting involved in the Ukraine war wouldn't you?

Yes. They won't because no state is signing up to be cannon fodder for an ex SSR's dreams of western europe

Any country is free to throw in troops but no one has, why do you think this has happened?

After all, if Russian security concerns justified sending troops to Ukraine, against Ukraine's will, surely SK security concerns would justify sending troops to Ukraine, with Ukraine's agreement?

Sure SK could declare war against Russia and send troops, I highly doubt they will though

I think you are on a winner here. Ukraine just became a place that is a security concern to SK, and we know what has to happen when Ukraine is a security concern.

It is funny how you think this is smart and you've caught me on some point or something.

I don't care if SK or NK send troops, it won't change the war. Any European nations could also send troops, it probably wouldn't change much either.

A combined NATO push would win the war for Ukraine, they won't do it because that's nuclear war. So the obvious option is peace talks and conncessions

 

[Zidane98]

There's no foreign military bases in NZ. If there were Chinese bases in NZ Australia and by extension the US would consider it a threat

The US would overthrow whatever NZ regime was in place if if they even considered that though

Well yeh, that's a declaration of war though yes?

It doesn't matter if you think it's valid or not. Russia considers Ukraine a vassal state, the US got involved and Russia invaded

The reason they haven't moved it is because they're under the US nuclear umbrella as a vassal state

Yes. They won't because no state is signing up to be cannon fodder for an ex SSR's dreams of western europe

Any country is free to throw in troops but no one has, why do you think this has happened?

Sure SK could declare war against Russia and send troops, I highly doubt they will though

It is funny how you think this is smart and you've caught me on some point or something.

I don't care if SK or NK send troops, it won't change the war. Any European nations could also send troops, it probably wouldn't change much either.

A combined NATO push would win the war for Ukraine, they won't do it because that's nuclear war. So the obvious option is peace talks and conncessions

If the Bucharest 9 decide to eventually send troops the war can be ended quickly. They would absolutely be justified in putting an end to the war in Ukraine. Ending Russian aggression against their allies.

Of course with nearly 700,000 Russian casualties, over a million of the best minds in Russia fleeing, economy in tatters, Russia's international reputation in tatters, Russian territory invaded only the most insane of dictators would continue the war based solely on Putin's ego.

 

[Crankyhawk]

God, this feels like primary school, take the next thought mate

Ukraine being western aligned and stationing CIA bases along the border was considered a security threat by Russia right?

Because they are irrational paranoids who thought they could get away with the same land grab tactic as in 2014 - send in fake agitators then crack down as security

 

[Zidane98]

So much for ethic Russians being taken care of in Ukraine by Adolf Putin



Really must drive Putin nuts that Zelensky is both an ethnic Russian and a Jew.

 

[Zidane98]

It is quite incredible the knots vatniks tie themselves in defending Putin & his fascist invasion. Usually mentioning the US about 443 times in every post.

 

[Chadwiko]

It is quite incredible the knots vatniks tie themselves in defending Putin & his fascist invasion. Usually mentioning the US about 443 times in every post.

But but but Maidan!

 

[Hamingja]

North Korean troops quickly learnt that they are nothing more than fodder for the Penal Battalions.
They fled.

Lose lose situation for the NK troops.

Fight and die.

Go AWOL and 3 generations of your family are in concentration camps in NK.

Then there would be a cross over where you die in the fighting but get accused of going AWOL and 3 generations of your family are in concentration camps in NK regardless.

 

[Mobbs]

Lose lose situation for the NK troops.

Fight and die.

Go AWOL and 3 generations of your family are in concentration camps in NK.

Then there would be a cross over where you die in the fighting but get accused of going AWOL and 3 generations of your family are in concentration camps in NK regardless.

True, tho NK is already one big concentration camp. Defection could at least save 1 member of a family.

Ukraine's 'I Want to Live' project posts Korean-language video message, calls on North Korean soldiers to surrender

Launched in September 2022 by Ukraine's Main Directorate of Intelligence, the 24-hour "I Want to Live" hotline helps Russian soldiers willingly surrender themselves or their units to the Ukrainian army.

kyivindependent.com

 

[Zidane98]

Lose lose situation for the NK troops.

Fight and die.

Go AWOL and 3 generations of your family are in concentration camps in NK.

Then there would be a cross over where you die in the fighting but get accused of going AWOL and 3 generations of your family are in concentration camps in NK regardless.

Who's the bloke who determines if a NK soldier is dead or AWOL? Going to be difficult to verify deaths.

Maybe the NK army just inters all families of NK soldiers fighting in Ukraine in concentration camps regardless.

 

[Visions]

North Korean troops quickly learnt that they are nothing more than fodder for the Penal Battalions.
They fled.

Not knowing anything about the outside world, they were undoubtedly told by their portly unhinged leader that being the greatest soldiers on earth, they will have no issues and would face no opposition in their quest to being heroes of the motherland.

Just like another dictator who gave the same spiel going back about 3 years.

Unfortunately for them they are going to **** around and get found out. At the rate the Acis of evil loses troops those few thousand will last a week before being no more.

One thing that this shows though that hasn’t been mentioned is that Russia obviously are having problems in recruiting their own cannon fodder despite all the kickbacks being offered. Wouldn’t need NK troops if their own were willing to fly the flag.