Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[Andre]

"Western indecision in Ukraine’s pursuit of security guarantees risks triggering a global chain reaction, with nations turning to nuclear weapons as a deterrent in the absence of reliable security commitments."

The biggest idiocy in the West (well except for voting Trump back in), is thinking supplying Ukraine / giving Ukraine fewer restrictions is escalatory. Putin has escalated each time the West has shown weakness, not strength. He knows he's got a weak hand, but the West still allows him to win.

There's still too many in Europe hoping that there's some loss figure (military equipment, men or economic) that, when reached, will magically have Putin say 'Woah! 831134 men dying I was fine with, but 831135, I'm out bro!'. Yes, the Russian economy is in trouble (and getting worse), yes, their equipment stores are going to start running out for various systems in 2025 and yes they are now losing more men a month than being recruited, but that's irrelevant. Putin doesn't want to do a larger mobilisation, but he's so invested, that if he has to do that, to compensate for lack of equipment and willing recruits he will.

The West has to provide enough to push the Russians back, there's no 'slow advance' heavy loss figures that'll drive Putin to the negotiating table, only reverses will do that.

 

[Zidane98]

Reporter visits Kursk People's Republic:



Reports people are happy to see Ukranian soldiers.

Now getting threats from vatniks demanding who gave her permission to visit Russian territory....

 

[Vitriol]

Your analogy works better if all the kids have knives and are killing each other.

Maybe let’s all agree to move on from the kids beating / knifing each other analogy.

Hmm...

 

[Zidane98]

Reports of Ukraine installing toilets in Kursk households :



When this is happening one must know it's not Russia anymore.

 

[wannabejack]

Reports of Ukraine installing toilets in Kursk households :



When this is happening one must know it's not Russia anymore.

Ukrainian passports next?

 

[Rob R]

To the extent there is a strategy, as far I can tell Biden's strategy appears to be give just enough to allow Ukraine to survive but not win, resulting in a forever war. My opinion of this is unprintable.

Ukraine needs troops not just weapons to go on the offensive.

Biden hands were tied by congress.

The US also knows full well that Putins backer Xi approved the attack because he wanted the West to exhaust itself and leave Taiwan and the Philippines more vulnerable to his planned murderous invasion of those peaceful nations.

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Zidane98]

Ukrainian passports next?

Yes, every Kursk republic citizen who accepts Ukranian citizenship gets a free indoor toilet installed.

 

[Zidane98]

 

[Zidane98]

Putin launches biggest missile attack yet despite Trump being president elect:

 

[wannabejack]

For recycling each mirage 2000-Fs they get a 10 cent "refund".

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Ukraine needs troops not just weapons to go on the offensive.

Biden hands were tied by congress.

The US also knows full well that Putins backer Xi approved the attack because he wanted the West to exhaust itself and leave Taiwan and the Philippines more vulnerable to his planned murderous invasion of those peaceful nations.

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app

it’s like Trump can’t see the forest for the trees, though Biden was weak too.

 

[Zidane98]

Difference between Putin / Xi and Biden / Trump is they do as they please. They're not accountable to anyone. If they want to they can wreck their economies and it won't affect them being in power.

Biden / Trump need congress approval to get aid over the line, that's a process and it usually involves trading support for something else in the senate.

 

[Baldur]

Ukraine needs troops not just weapons to go on the offensive.

Biden hands were tied by congress.

The US also knows full well that Putins backer Xi approved the attack because he wanted the West to exhaust itself and leave Taiwan and the Philippines more vulnerable to his planned murderous invasion of those peaceful nations.

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Congress does not force Biden to withhold authority to use donated weapons in Russia. Congress does not force Biden to use silly valuations re the donated equipment, whereby items dragged out of desert storage or ancient stockpiles that are being decommissioned are valued at replacement value. Replacement value in relation to stuff that was never going to be replaced or is being decommissioned in any event is rubbish.

Congress did not force Biden to only give 30 tanks, 10% of what was requested, a year after they where requested. Congress did not force Biden to withhold ATACMS for two years, even models that were no longer in US service and were being decommissioned.

Biden could have in early 2022, released 300 Abrams from desert storage, valued them according to standard accounting principles at zero value (net book value) or at about a third of replacement value (Fair Value) and handed them over under the presidential drawdown authority.

Congress did not force Biden to stop other nations giving authority for donated weapons to be used in Russia, or delay other NATO nations from giving MBT's and Fighter's. A decisive president would have encouraged other nations to provide gear, not the opposite.

As the late 2022 counter attacks show, Russia was on the ropes in late 2022, a decisive president, who provided gear and backing from the 23 Feb 2022 could have enabled Ukraine to win in late 2022 or early 2023. The war being begun is on Putin, the war continuing is on Biden as well as Putin.

A president Putin respected and feared would have most likely stopped the main invasion occurring, instead the US was and is lead by a doddering old fool scared of his own shadow.

 

[Mobbs]

A woman and her 3 children all trapped under the residence collapsed by a missile strike in Kryvyi Rih. The search continues for the 3rd child after all other bodies have been retrieved.

The body of the first victim was pulled out from under the rubble in Kryvyi Rih , local authorities reported. Her three children are now listed as missing — emergency services are searching for them under the rubble. There are also 14 known victims, including two children.

[ASTRA TG]

As a result of a missile strike the day before, apartments from the first to the fifth floors of one of the entrances of a five-story building were destroyed.

[ASTRA TG]

 

[Mobbs]

Media including footage of the execution of POWs by the innocent people on the Russian side. Let's not forget to give Putin what he wants, folks, the put an end to this collateral damage.

WARNING: The videos in the links contain footage of executions.

[DeepStateUA TG] posted 10th November
He did not resist, did not try to escape, did not curse Muscovites. His injury was obviously not serious and did not require any extraordinary efforts from Muscovites to stabilize or provide immediate assistance.

The video does not show a super-assault vehicle in fashionable body kits, or an ideological enemy of the occupiers covered with certain tattoos. No, this is obviously an ordinary Ukrainian uncle from Sumy region, who could be changed later.

But these arguments are completely foreign to Katsap bastards. They do not know the word salvation, do not understand the essence of pity or compassion. I am not talking about international humanitarian law.

I want all civilians to watch videos of such shootings and remember what kind of enemy we are fighting. What are we fighting for? Who are we up against?

[DeepStateUA] posted 12th November
Katsaps continue to systematically violate the customs and rules of war

Today there was a video of the shooting of 2 soldiers of one of the brigades of the Defense Forces of Ukraine near Novoivanivka.

It seems that the katsaps in Kurshchyna are doing everything so that their subordinates do not have a chance to be captured by us.

 

[Zidane98]

Incredible history repeats with Ukranian soldiers once again fighting off Nazis in Kursk.

 

[Mobbs]

In the temporarily occupied city of Oleshky, the Ukrainian National Anthem echoed through the streets. The 124th Territorial Defense Brigade, together with the SBU, carried out a unique operation: using drones to secretly deliver portable speakers, playing the anthem right in the city center.

Sorry, can't remember the TG source channel

On SM-A146P using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[wannabejack]

Zelensky’s Plan to Replace US Troops in Europe with Ukrainian Forces Gets Trump’s Attention

Ukraine pitches key new proposals to Trump, which include replacing US troops in Europe with Ukrainian forces, to secure continued US support and secure an acceptable peace deal with Russia.

www.kyivpost.com

According to a source familiar with the meeting, Trump expressed “interest” in both ideas.

 

[Jello_B]

Zelensky’s Plan to Replace US Troops in Europe with Ukrainian Forces Gets Trump’s Attention

Ukraine pitches key new proposals to Trump, which include replacing US troops in Europe with Ukrainian forces, to secure continued US support and secure an acceptable peace deal with Russia.

www.kyivpost.com

According to a source familiar with the meeting, Trump expressed “interest” in both ideas.

Pretty clever there by Zelensky.
Not sure about the giving up of Ukraines resources (in ground minerals) hopefully they don’t have to sacrifice too much of their natural sovereign wealth. The US administration needs to be reasonable.

 

[wannabejack]

Pretty clever there by Zelensky.
Not sure about the giving up of Ukraines resources (in ground minerals) hopefully they don’t have to sacrifice too much of their natural sovereign wealth. The US administration needs to be reasonable.

One source involved in the planning described this as an “ABC - anybody but China” strategy, a move aimed at drawing US investment and possibly switching Ukrainian industries reliant on Chinese technology and materials, such as telecoms, to US suppliers.

The future of critical raw materials in Ukraine and the world

Ukraine's vast reserves of critical raw materials are critical for various industries and can bolster global supply chains with the right EU/US strategies.

www.weforum.org

Access to Ukrainian resources could help democratic countries achieve greater autonomy from non-democratic regimes, particularly in energy and technology.

China’s dominance in critical raw materials enables it to wield geopolitical influence in economic decisions. Over the past 15 years, it has halted exports to Japan, Sweden, and the United States.

Recently, Ukraine began auctioning exploration permits for lithium, copper, cobalt and nickel, offering lucrative investment opportunities in refining critical raw materials. These investments can drive Europe’s green transition and support Ukraine’s post-war reconstruction and reintegration.

 

[Satan]

Coincidence ?

 

[Zidane98]

 

[Chief]

Not Boris smoking near a moving car?

 

[Zidane98]

Imagine anyone being that cooked enough to claim the US took over in Ukraine.


In terms of Putin every accusation is a confession and the real problem for him wasn't being able to run Ukraine as another oblast of Russia any longer.

 

[Zidane98]