Wellingham - Traded to West Coast

[the distributer]

This....
He just isn't worth a first round draft pick. That's the blunt end of it.

It doesn't matter what you think, or i for that matter, what matters is your club have offered him a substantial 3 year deal, they obviously rate him highly ( even if you don't) they will find it incredibly hard to justify a low ball offer based on that fact.

 

[Bollox]

Eddie needs to take a lead from the way Jolly got to the Pies, an absence of huff n puff.
Is it different when a player wants to leave the Pies?

Always has been yes.
Dont have a problem with that attitude at all. Eddie just likes to up the ante when they know they'll be sitting down at the table to play cards. Doesnt mean a great deal but dont see any issue with the parochial attitude.
Sydney and Collingwood have an extremely good existing trade table relationship...some clubs value those sorts of things and others dont. Why should the gloves stay on when the Weagles havent done them any favors in the past or helped get a player movement thru.

Eddie's a gun.

 

[Keys]

Always has been yes.
Dont have a problem with that attitude at all. Eddie just likes to up the ante when they know they'll be sitting down at the table to play cards. Doesnt mean a great deal but dont see any issue with the parochial attitude.
Sydney and Collingwood have an extremely good existing trade table relationship...some clubs value those sorts of things and others dont. Why should the gloves stay on when the Weagles havent done them any favors in the past or helped get a player movement thru.

Eddie's a gun.

What trades have they blocked?

The last trade we did with Collingwood was trading our live pick that we weren't going to use for their inactivated compo pick for josh Fraser back in 2010

Traditionally west coast arent particularly active come trade week but our trading history is pretty fair. Can't honk of too many instances when we've shafted anybody

 

[Bollox]

What trades have they blocked?

The last trade we did with Collingwood was trading our live pick that we weren't going to use for their inactivated compo pick for josh Fraser back in 2010

Traditionally west coast arent particularly active come trade week but our trading history is pretty fair. Can't honk of too many instances when we've shafted anybody

Noone's saying you've shafted anyone...just that some clubs find it easier to trade and are a bit wary of others. Hasnt been easy for anyone to trade with Essendon for a long time now..so if one of our guys for instance wanted to go there at the moment we'd know its not going to be easy...but if it was Saints/Cats/Pies would be much easier.
Eddie just likes to wave an unloaded gun around when any of "his boys" are being targetted or up for a move. Likes to be involved in everything and doesnt mean much in the long term.

His mantra is that you're lucky to get to the Pies...you dont leave the Pies. Just continuing their tradition.

 

[the distributer]

Edd hasn't even declared war on anyone this week yet.

 

[Pat_Footy]

Noone's saying you've shafted anyone...just that some clubs find it easier to trade and are a bit wary of others. Hasnt been easy for anyone to trade with Essendon for a long time now..so if one of our guys for instance wanted to go there at the moment we'd know its not going to be easy...but if it was Saints/Cats/Pies would be much easier.
Eddie just likes to wave an unloaded gun around when any of "his boys" are being targetted or up for a move. Likes to be involved in everything and doesnt mean much in the long term.

His mantra is that you're lucky to get to the Pies...you dont leave the Pies. Just continuing their tradition.

That's just a perception... absolute nonsense.

 

[Bollox]

That's just a perception... absolute nonsense.

You think clubs dont favour dealing with others ?..u think clubs dont find it easier to trade with personnel from clubs that they've dealt with successfully before ?....thats all just perception and nonsense is it ?

..or maybe you think the Pies havent had a long standing "attitude" towards players leaving their club.

I think you're being a bit nonsensical with your perception.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

melbourne has offer pick 13.

Congrats Collingwood.

 

[Such is life Ben]

wellingham wants to go home, but WC is playing hardball and making it as difficult as possible for a suitable trade and transaction.

How do you know they are playing hardball? Source? I havent heard anyone from the club show their hand and say what they believe they will trade. All I have is Wellingham saying he wants out and to end up at West Coast, Eddie to say they wont be giving him away and a few of our supporters say they dont want him and we should get him for free.

 

[Such is life Ben]

I've read this perception about west coast playing hardball with collingwood in trades but have no idea what it is based on. What trades or potential trades have we been difficult to deal with?

Exactly, when have we played "hardball" with Collingwood?

Cant think of any, Judd was the one that chose Carlton, you know? (nothing to do with us).

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Meh, there are plenty of Eagles fans who say pick 17 is fair- compare Josh Carr, Tyson Stenglein, Ted Richards, Cameron Wood, Barry Brooks, etc. Pick 38 won't get it done, everyone knows that.

Only because they have have poo for brains and can't think up a creative trade.

In the Stenglein trade we got boned as did Fremantle with Josh Carr. Thankfully it was a an average draft and so many clubs couldn't identify and develop players.

 

[Keys]

Only because they have have poo for brains and can't think up a creative trade.

Can you?

 

[Such is life Ben]

Only because they have have poo for brains and can't think up a creative trade.

In the Stenglein trade we got boned as did Fremantle with Josh Carr. Thankfully it was a an average draft and so many clubs couldn't identify and develop players.

Agree Freo got boned, not so sure about us with Stenglein. I would argue that in a weak draft, those picks (12 and 28) were reasonable, given eagles knew it. He was highly regarded at the Crows and probs future captain. Plus, although this isnt necessarily reflective of his market value across the board, he was one of the missing pieces for us.

I am not sure pick 17 is too far off for Wellingham. Yes there is always the opportunity to grab a Shuey, but there is also just as much chance you might get a dud. As well, I rate Wellingham quite highly, it is very likely he will atleast be a very good player for us.

I actually think anywhere from 17-25 is okay, but at the moment, 17 is the obvious one given what we get for Stevens is likely to be used for Cripps. Pick 38 is also an option - but this guy is a young, best 22 player that has shown quite a lot in a quality side. Pick 38 is closer to the value of Stevens, than Wellingham (though I think Stevens is probably worth around pick 30.

Although this is separate to market value, we also need another midfielder now more than ever, given it is already our weak spot and we are also 2 down at the moment (Stevens, Swift). Cripps would ease that a bit, but no guarantees we will get him.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Can you?

I've consistently stated that pick 39~ is too low and pick 17 is high.
People have some pretty weird ideas around here, especially as far as the trade process goes and I don't seriously expect Wellingham's destination to be known in the first week of the trade period.
Lot's of other trades are going to happen such as Dawes, Stevens and perhaps Cripps who has interested in coming to Westcoast, at the same as we have expressed interest in other players. So if we agree to disagree with Collingwood on whatever trade(s) are put forward early on, then lot's of other pieces of the puzzle will move around as the trade period goes forward and an alternative will be found if really want Wellingham.
However if Collingwood play hard ball like StKilda did with Ball then we can pursue Cripps or Lucas or someone else. These threads are boringly repetitive and moronic.

 

[Keys]

So I take that as a no then

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Agree Freo got boned, not so sure about us with Stenglein. I would argue that in a weak draft, those picks (12 and 28) were reasonable, given eagles knew it. He was highly regarded at the Crows and probs future captain. Plus, although this isnt necessarily reflective of his market value across the board, he was one of the missing pieces for us.

I am not sure pick 17 is too far off for Wellingham. Yes there is always the opportunity to grab a Shuey, but there is also just as much chance you might get a dud. As well, I rate Wellingham quite highly, it is very likely he will atleast be a very good player for us.

I actually think anywhere from 17-25 is okay, but at the moment, 17 is the obvious one given what we get for Stevens is likely to be used for Cripps. Pick 38 is also an option - but this guy is a young, best 22 player that has shown quite a lot in a quality side. Pick 38 is closer to the value of Stevens, than Wellingham (though I think Stevens is probably worth around pick 30.

Although this is separate to market value, we also need another midfielder now more than ever, given it is already our weak spot and we are also 2 down at the moment (Stevens, Swift). Cripps would ease that a bit, but no guarantees we will get him.

Fair enough.

For me the difference between Stenglein and Wellingham is that Stenglein is the glue that fluff like Wellingham are stuck onto. He would be fighting with Embley over the title as our our lowest ranked midfielder in our "best 22" which suggests to me he's close to fringe.

It's certainly the case over at Collingwood that he's in there bottom 2 at the moment and they are prone to playing more smaller flankers than us.

Unless we have him lined up for a major role then his value to us is questionable, so the proof will be in the pudding.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

So I take that as a no then

I already have.

 

[Such is life Ben]

Yeah and I get your point EH, I think where we differ is that I rate Wellingham higher. Personally, I think although Collingwood have done a great job in developing him, he has been held back (this year especially) given the stars in their midfield. I think we can develop him even further, and that next year although he can play a role (I actually see him being able to play both an inside / outside role ie either as required), he will be more important in the next 2 years, as Priddis, Kerr and Embley move on. For me, hes safer than that 17 draft pick. Also, think he will excel on Subi.

I would love to see us get hold of a pick 25 and see if we can agree on that, as long as it doesnt mean we end up losing Stevens and not getting Cripps.

 

[PieNSauce]

What might prove to be fairly humorous here is that Melbourne and Collingwood are discussing a deal that would see Wellingham and Dawes go to them in exchange for pick 4. If that deal gets done and Melbourne cannot convince Wellers of the upside, there may wind up being a situation whereby he has to nominate for the draft and run the risk of being drafted by someone other than West Coast. A nice little game of brinkmanship to watch I think. Those suggesting it wouldn't happen can hope that is true if they like but Wellers knows that he cannot guarantee the result just as everyone else does. Wellingham would not be the first player to fail to get to his club of choice and whilst I'm sure that Collingwood would love to accommodate him, it has a responsibility to its members and fans to get the best deal it can and he is smart enough to know that. I do not believe the club will accept what it sees as massive unders for Wellingham just to appease him but they will be happy to help him provided that they are not the big loser in such a deal.

In the end, if it goes the way it's looking, this little game of brinkmanship will make for some very interesting media not to mention the meltdown of a good few pre-pubescent BF posters.

 

[Such is life Ben]

What might prove to be fairly humorous here is that Melbourne and Collingwood are discussing a deal that would see Wellingham and Dawes go to them in exchange for pick 4. If that deal gets done and Melbourne cannot convince Wellers of the upside, there may wind up being a situation whereby he has to nominate for the draft and run the risk of being drafted by someone other than West Coast. A nice little game of brinkmanship to watch I think. Those suggesting it wouldn't happen can hope that is true if they like but Wellers knows that he cannot guarantee the result just as everyone else does. Wellingham would not be the first player to fail to get to his club of choice and whilst I'm sure that Collingwood would love to accommodate him, it has a responsibility to its members and fans to get the best deal it can and he is smart enough to know that. I do not believe the club will accept what it sees as massive unders for Wellingham just to appease him but they will be happy to help him provided that they are not the big loser in such a deal.

In the end, if it goes the way it's looking, this little game of brinkmanship will make for some very interesting media not to mention the meltdown of a good few pre-pubescent BF posters.

See your point and I am sure you have the Clarke deal in your mind when thinking of it, but it seems Melbourne have already tabled their offer to Wellingham and he declined. Remember with Clark, Melbourne came to the party late and Mitch agreed and went for the dollars. Players nominating clubs recently have historically got there.

I cant see West Coast low balling so much that Collingwood will let him go to the draft. Nothing in our trading history suggests we would do that and our administration hasnt really changed much over the years. At worst, it will be a 2nd round pick.

 

[PieNSauce]

See your point and I am sure you have the Clarke deal in your mind when thinking of it, but it seems Melbourne have already tabled their offer to Wellingham and he declined. Remember with Clark, Melbourne came to the party late and Mitch agreed and went for the dollars. Players nominating clubs recently have historically got there.

I cant see West Coast low balling so much that Collingwood will let him go to the draft. Nothing in our trading history suggests we would do that and our administration hasnt really changed much over the years. At worst, it will be a 2nd round pick.

But there's no way on god's earth that Collingwood would accept a second round pick for Wellingham and I think most reasonable WC supporters have recognised that fact. There is no reason for them to.

At this stage, at least according to media reports, Wellers has not rejected anything outright and according to the Dees, when they last spoke to him he was happy enough to stay in Melbourne. It sounds very much to me like going home has some level of priority for him but I very much doubt he'd risk the PSD where, while some would like to think otherwise, there is a high risk that he will not get there anyway. There is also no evidence at this point to suggest that Wellers has any plans to shaft Collingwood and whilst he certainly has his preference, he is definitely smart enough to know that it is in everyone's best interests to get an amicable deal done. He will also be aware that he has been pretty well treated by Collingwood after he managed to do a little damage to the club early in his career. I see no evidence that Wellers lacks integrity and one would think that would mean that he would be keen to leave on good terms.

 

[Such is life Ben]

But there's no way on god's earth that Collingwood would accept a second round pick for Wellingham and I think most reasonable WC supporters have recognised that fact. There is no reason for them to.

At this stage, at least according to media reports, Wellers has not rejected anything outright and according to the Dees, when they last spoke to him he was happy enough to stay in Melbourne. It sounds very much to me like going home has some level of priority for him but I very much doubt he'd risk the PSD where, while some would like to think otherwise, there is a high risk that he will not get there anyway. There is also no evidence at this point to suggest that Wellers has any plans to shaft Collingwood and whilst he certainly has his preference, he is definitely smart enough to know that it is in everyone's best interests to get an amicable deal done. He will also be aware that he has been pretty well treated by Collingwood after he managed to do a little damage to the club early in his career. I see no evidence that Wellers lacks integrity and one would think that would mean that he would be keen to leave on good terms.

He has nominated West Coast, hence has not chosen / rejected / whatever you want to call it Melbourne and their offer.
http://www.triplem.com.au/sydney/sp...hmond-secures-troy-chaplin/20121004-hclr.html

Look, I have clearly stated in my opinion he is worth 15-25. I also think that will get the deal done. Do you disagree with that? You do realise pick 24 is second round, right.

I do not think West Coast would low ball and try for a late second round pick (ie around 40), but I would not rule out a pick of around 30 getting the deal done. Anyway, neither of us know.

But, I would also bet my left nut on the fact he wont end up at Melbourne, however much both those clubs would prefer to trade for it. He would stay at Collingwood before that happened.

Hypothetically, if WCE put up pick 38 only, it would either be that:
1) Collingwood let him walk in to the ND / PSD and get nothing & Wellingham does so
2) Wellingham decides not to walk and stays
3) Collingwood buckle & take it

I dont think West Coast would do that, but it would certainly make things interesting.

 

[PieNSauce]

He has nominated West Coast, hence has not chosen / rejected / whatever you want to call it Melbourne and their offer.
http://www.triplem.com.au/sydney/sp...hmond-secures-troy-chaplin/20121004-hclr.html

Look, I have clearly stated in my opinion he is worth 15-25. I also think that will get the deal done. Do you disagree with that? You do realise pick 24 is second round, right.

I do not think West Coast would low ball and try for a late second round pick (ie around 40), but I would not rule out a pick of around 30 getting the deal done. Anyway, neither of us know.

But, I would also bet my left nut on the fact he wont end up at Melbourne, however much both those clubs would prefer to trade for it. He would stay at Collingwood before that happened.

I tend to agree with most of what you're saying except that pick 30 would be highly unlikely to get it done. The simple reality that too many here like to ignore is the fact that Wellers is 100% guaranteed best 22 in a side that has been contending for 3 years. At best, any draft pick is a risk because statistics very clearly say that not all draftees ever become best 22 players and the lower down the list those picks are, the greater the risk. Any way you look at it, keeping Wellers is better than any draft pick with the single exception that he has indicated his desire to leave and undoubtedly Collingwood will do what it believes is reasonable to accommodate him. I very much doubt that they will see pick 30 as reasonable and from what I've read from reasonable posters here and on the Collingwood board that much is pretty much conceded.

 

[Such is life Ben]

I tend to agree with most of what you're saying except that pick 30 would be highly unlikely to get it done. The simple reality that too many here like to ignore is the fact that Wellers is 100% guaranteed best 22 in a side that has been contending for 3 years. At best, any draft pick is a risk because statistics very clearly say that not all draftees ever become best 22 players and the lower down the list those picks are, the greater the risk. Any way you look at it, keeping Wellers is better than any draft pick with the single exception that he has indicated his desire to leave and undoubtedly Collingwood will do what it believes is reasonable to accommodate him. I very much doubt that they will see pick 30 as reasonable and from what I've read from reasonable posters here and on the Collingwood board that much is pretty much conceded.

I think 30 would be a little low as well, only reason I think if there was nothing else on the table but that that it would be expected is because he has nominated eagles, club nomination seems to bring the trade value down. Pretty sure eagles will be fair though and wrap the deal up with something a bit higher. There are plenty on the eagles board that believe 17 is high though, particularly given the alleged strength of this draft. I am not saying I agree, but can see their point.

 

[PieNSauce]

I think 30 would be a little low as well, only reason I think if there was nothing else on the table but that that it would be expected is because he has nominated eagles, club nomination seems to bring the trade value down. Pretty sure eagles will be fair though and wrap the deal up with something a bit higher. There are plenty on the eagles board that believe 17 is high though, particularly given the alleged strength of this draft. I am not saying I agree, but can see their point.

Not much to disagree with there.