What do we need for successful 2012?

[LordJimmy]

I think Stanley needs to bulk up to about Kreuzer's build.

I think Stanley needs to be traded to whoever's stupid enough to give us something for him.

We need to snag whatever young rucks are offloaded by the Gold Coast, I reckon. Whoever seems to be any good.

 

[Rors]

Interesting posting.... I was thinking that recruiting yet another forward was the last thing we needed. He would be just another player that would go on 3-5 gut busting leads only to have the ball kicked at his feet.... We already have Siposs, Walsh, Lynch, Johnson, Gamble to play this role

Im hellbent on our club realising we need a dead-eye dick half back flanker. The delivery to our forwards this year has been, at worst - atrocious, at best - just above average. There is no way we can compete with the Collingwoods, Geelongs & Hawthorns if we do not get our run, carry & forward delivery a lot better. Its this reason, i believe, that recruiting just one 21-24 yr old that could play that role would be a massive massive bonus... I reckon the perfect player for this role could be Danyle Pearce or Travis Varcoe (both highly unlikely, but excellent kicks & have speed... Hello Andrew Lovett, i hate you)

Could Tom Lynch be made into a Full-Back? He has better size & strength than Zac.... To be honest, i hate being critical of our players but Zac, i cant stand him. The guy has done 10 preseasons & is still as easy to knock over as a house of cards. I just think that him playing the full-back role can just waste the use of Fisher, Gram, Clarke & Gilbert having to always be 2nd & 3rd man up instead of getting the breakaway spread & the quick get out kick option then away we go up the ground through Pearce or Varcoe

 

[Squizz]

Aren't there veterans inside list and outside list though? Pretty sure you can't have ten 30 yr olds and only have a % of their payments included in the cap.

Unlimited, so having Fisher, Riewoldt and Koschitzke as veterans provides alot of flexibility in addition to Milne and Hayes.

Once you get more than 5 veterans, the benefit is minimal (however, you can still exclude 20% from the cap for the 5th veteran).

 

[Squizz]

I think Stanley needs to be traded to whoever's stupid enough to give us something for him.

We need to snag whatever young rucks are offloaded by the Gold Coast, I reckon. Whoever seems to be any good.

If they were any good they'd be retained.

Ross is backing Stanley. I'm inclined to agree, as Rhys put on some shoulder bulk from last year (so is doing the work that Lynch and Cahill probably should be) and just needs some angry pills - Willy J would surely have some spares.

 

[sauce_head]

11+ wins.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Whilst using 2 talls is great, we cannot immediately rule out using a 3rd one. Just because a player is considered to be a "tall" due to his height, it doesn't mean he will be slow and unable to apply pressure.

One example that springs to mind is Stevie J. He is quite tall, yet is quick and good at applying pressure. Gamble, although there is some room for improvement, is similar. Walsh isn't too much slower than Gamble, so he will be able to apply forward pressure, but he still provides the strength required to take big contested marks

Rhys Stanley is lightning quick, yet really tall. Tall doesn't always mean slow. Each player should be addressed individually based on what they show in games, not what they show on paper.

Gamble is not quite tall though, Gamble is shorter than most of our midfield.
So you seem to be arguing with yourself.

In order of height we have ( Forwards ):
Schnieder 175
Milne 176
Gamble 184
Heyne 187
Siposs 189
Johnson 191
Cahill 192
Lynch 192
Archer 193
Riewoldt 193
Walsh 194
Kosi 197
Stanley 200

Stanley is only a few Kg lighter than McEvoy.

Height isn't everything. Stanley is pretty good below the waist. But I dont think Walsh, and Cahill are.
Lynch isnt as good overhead as Siposs.

With his height and athletism surely Stanley is worth persevering with. Delisting only gives you an empty spot, it doesnt give you a 200cm Rucking Forward.

 

[saintsrfreak]

Last week Ross said that he was persisting with Stanley and hoping he would be a good long term forward.

 

[hayes]

Size isn't everything. Stanley's biggest asset is that he's not just lightning quick for his height he's lightning quick for any height. He's 200cm and he won the GF sprint there's no point in just throwing him away.

 

[Falchoon]

Size isn't everything. Stanley's biggest asset is that he's not just lightning quick for his height he's lightning quick for any height. He's 200cm and he won the GF sprint there's no point in just throwing him away.

If our players all ran 100 50m sprints where would Stanley finish in the 101st?

 

[Zagg]

Much as I'd like to be proven wrong, Stanley isn't going to have a major impact at AFL next year. Hopefully he can come in for 7-10 games and perform better than he has done before, scoring goals and providing contests. However to expect any more is unfair on him.

Realistically for a successful 2012 we need to to be lucky with injuries. We need all our guns to perform, and for Steven/McEvoy to continue their path to stardom.

Maybe we also need a new gameplan? Ross brought something completely new to the table in 2009, which the Pies successfully adapted in 2010/2011. It's probably time for the next proper evolution now - and hopefully Ross is the man to provide it again! I'm not sure what it is, but I trust in him to keep us at the forefront. The game will keep evolving and hopefully we can be the innovators rather than the followers.

 

[saintsrfreak]

Our gameplan is already changing. We're much more free flowing now

 

[Zagg]

Our gameplan is already changing. We're much more free flowing now

I'm aware of that, but whilst our gameplan has already changed this year maybe it's only the first step on the way to what it'll be in 2012...

It seems pretty unlikely that we'll challenge for the flag from 6th/7th this year, and to be honest that's what the club should be aiming for next year, however realistic (or not) it might be.

We shouldn't be satisfied with 11+ wins and a finals win next year.

 

[sauce_head]

If our players all ran 100 50m sprints where would Stanley finish in the 101st?

At the finish line.

 

[TheLastEmperor]

Quite simply youth - quality youth. We need to get games into the likes of Siposs, Cripps, Ledger, Crocker, Walsh and Stanley. I believe we have a good crop of diverse kids coming through - mids and forwards. And pick up some decent picks in the draft - preferably a gun midfielder. I don't want to see us bring in more retreads. We have enough. If anything trade players (fringe types) for picks with GWS. We need some luck. Pick up a gun with our first rounder that can play immediately. I would like to see the before mentioned young players play next season and guys like Baker, Blake, Gardiner and Gamble move aside. I don't hold much hope for Winmar and Lynch either. Harsh I know. Cut and cut relatively hard.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

Could Tom Lynch be made into a Full-Back? He has better size & strength than Zac.... To be honest, i hate being critical of our players but Zac, i cant stand him. The guy has done 10 preseasons & is still as easy to knock over as a house of cards

That's a pretty ridiculous post mate. Lynch doesn't have the size or strength of Zac and given Zac is only 25, I'm finding it hard to believe he's done 10 preseasons.

Unlimited, so having Fisher, Riewoldt and Koschitzke as veterans provides alot of flexibility in addition to Milne and Hayes.

Once you get more than 5 veterans, the benefit is minimal (however, you can still exclude 20% from the cap for the 5th veteran).

Thanks Squizzle. Have never quite got my head around this. Fisher wouldn't be eligible yet though as he hasn't been at the club for 10 years? His first year was 2004 I thought.

Also our skills, in particular our kicking need to improve across the board if we want to challenge next year.

 

[batfink]

A favouable will help for a higher finish but we must improve to take advantage if this was to happen.
This year we played Coll, Geel, Carl and freo ( who will be improvers next year ) twice and gold coast, port, melb,rich and bris once
Switch this next year and throw in GWS and it shows how unfair the draw really is.I dont want to hide behind an easier draw but it can make the difference between a top 4 finish or not if you have injuries throughout the year, or if you want to rest players like Geelong have been able to.

Yes i know we only played Hawks once but we also only played Dogs once who will be strugglers again next year.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Our kicking marking needs to improve, and in the long term I can see players like Jones retiring early because of this. However at the moment he's so hard at the ball it makes up for his shortcomings.

I see Stanley as a long term prospect rather than someone who will have a big impact next year.
Players like Cripps and Ledger remain a possibility. If they can make the kind of leap over the pre-season that Steven did last year we are looking pretty good in the guts.

Add Lenny and we have a top quality midfield and a good ruck.

Questions. Does Kosi give us enough talent in the Forward Line? Can we get someone better? If Walsh is a better forward option, how does that leave us in the ruck department? Is our real requirment a rucking backman? ( I really respect Blake, but ultimately he is too short ). Is that where RL is heading with Archer? Ruck training seems to be par for the course for our taller players at the moment.

Meanwhile Jackson Fergason impressed in his first year on the Rookie list.

 

[stkildathunda]

We need a big power forward that can kick goals and spend 15-20% of game in the ruck..

Not bagging him here but is Kosi really part of our future? Yes he has been in good form recently and when is switched on we are probably unbeatable but he goes missing way too much & his good performances are to far apart.. Also doenst kick enough goals.... Is it the right time with him in a rare patch of form and probably has a little bit of value due to this that we actually look at trading him? One thing Gold Coast regrets this year is not having a big target up front, so could be in market for someone to get them through until Dixon & co develop. Or alternatively GWS might be looking at someone..

 

[TheLastEmperor]

We need a big power forward that can kick goals and spend 15-20% of game in the ruck..

Not bagging him here but is Kosi really part of our future? Yes he has been in good form recently and when is switched on we are probably unbeatable but he goes missing way too much & his good performances are to far apart.. Also doenst kick enough goals.... Is it the right time with him in a rare patch of form and probably has a little bit of value due to this that we actually look at trading him? One thing Gold Coast regrets this year is not having a big target up front, so could be in market for someone to get them through until Dixon & co develop. Or alternatively GWS might be looking at someone..

Kosi has had a couple of inconsistent years after his impressive season in 2009. However he's as much a required player as Riewoldt. He adds that ingredient we need - forward / part time ruckman - he also takes a lot of pressure away from Riewoldt. IMO we can play Mac / Roo / Kosi / Walsh in the same team. To do this Blake would need to move aside. I reckon we have too many backs in the team anyway. Saying that I can see the future forward line with Walsh / Sippos and another forward - maybe stanley. But for the time being Kosi is an integral part of the team and compliments Roo nicely. It's obvious that Roo plays that much better and with confidence when Kosi is around.

I think Gram is the player that we should shop around - and Gilbert if the deal is right. As much as Gilbert has so much potential he's a terrible kick of the footy (like Gram) and wouldn't be that missed IMO. We can build a backline around Dawson and Gwilt who still have plenty of years left - Fisher on the downhill stretch.

On another note: Midfielders are so underrated. You can get away with having an average forward line if you have guns in the middle. Look at the Eagles in 05 / 06 and even the Cats over the last 5 years. You build a team around the midfield. Next year will most likely be hayes' last and Dal Santo and Montagna are entering their twilight. We need to look at bringing in some gun midfield kids over the next couple of years. Gaff from the Eagles would be a ideal. O'Meara from the mini-draft as well. This is where we need to shift our focus come trade period IMO.

Side note: Wouldn't say no to Butcher.

 

[InkerSaint]

We could really use Aaron Hamill right now.

We have one, the kid who is wearing Hamill's old number, which by the way he picked for himself.

On another note: Midfielders are so underrated. You can get away with having an average forward line if you have guns in the middle. Look at the Eagles in 05 / 06 and even the Cats over the last 5 years. You build a team around the midfield. Next year will most likely be hayes' last and Dal Santo and Montagna are entering their twilight. We need to look at bringing in some gun midfield kids over the next couple of years. Gaff from the Eagles would be a ideal. O'Meara from the mini-draft as well. This is where we need to shift our focus come trade period IMO.

I was surprised when looking at the all-time goalkickers table to see how far down the list Stevie J, Mooney and Chapman were.

 

[Half Back Pocket]

Kosi has had a couple of inconsistent years after his impressive season in 2009. However he's as much a required player as Riewoldt. He adds that ingredient we need - forward / part time ruckman - he also takes a lot of pressure away from Riewoldt. IMO we can play Mac / Roo / Kosi / Walsh in the same team. To do this Blake would need to move aside. I reckon we have too many backs in the team anyway. Saying that I can see the future forward line with Walsh / Sippos and another forward - maybe stanley. But for the time being Kosi is an integral part of the team and compliments Roo nicely. It's obvious that Roo plays that much better and with confidence when Kosi is around.

I think Gram is the player that we should shop around - and Gilbert if the deal is right. As much as Gilbert has so much potential he's a terrible kick of the footy (like Gram) and wouldn't be that missed IMO. We can build a backline around Dawson and Gwilt who still have plenty of years left - Fisher on the downhill stretch.

On another note: Midfielders are so underrated. You can get away with having an average forward line if you have guns in the middle. Look at the Eagles in 05 / 06 and even the Cats over the last 5 years. You build a team around the midfield. Next year will most likely be hayes' last and Dal Santo and Montagna are entering their twilight. We need to look at bringing in some gun midfield kids over the next couple of years. Gaff from the Eagles would be a ideal. O'Meara from the mini-draft as well. This is where we need to shift our focus come trade period IMO.

Side note: Wouldn't say no to Butcher.

Pretty hard to go and "get' a gun midfielder!! Unless we can pull a "Jolly" and land a big fish from another club (i'd be looking at the 4 teams to the west!) it will be very difficult.

Gram and Gilbo don't offer enough currency imo, and i think we'd be loath to offer up our 1st round pick again.

 

[ChrisFooty]

Improvement will come throuh blooding a lot more youngsters in the first half of the season. If the saints hang on to the ageing list you might very well see a sharp fall down the ladder, without a dramatic turnaround like we have seen this year.

More Walsh, Siposs, Lynch (will be stronger and better after more gym work), Cripps, Winmar and maybe another new draftee.

I would love to see to keep taking kids in the draft, instead of going after high profile recruits.

Fev will stuff up with alcohol sometime down the road. No worth the punt and the fact his body will struggle to get through a full AFL season.

 

[Squizz]

Fisher wouldn't be eligible yet though as he hasn't been at the club for 10 years? His first year was 2004 I thought.

Yep, 2004. Back ended deal would have a significant impact on cap space.

 

[Jackyboy]

firstly good thread...

we need a power defender and Zac isn't the answer at all... He's been ok in that role but has no awareness, footy smarts or strength to go with the power forwards who with the game going the way it is have room to shine... We need a 100kg 6'5 big framed person to fill that spot... Zac can never become a power defender as his frame is just too small... again this isn't a go at Zac it's just reality...

with regards to the back pocket/ half back i don't think that's a major necessity at this time as with Lenny back next year and the further development of armo (if he's not off to somewhere else) stevens and possibly another youngster means we will have huge midfield depth and can therefore afford to put one of goddard or nicky dal down there... ohh and 1 more point there... p!ss off gram... useless.. clarke not the answer either...

with the addition of a power forward it will also give the confidence back to fisher, gilbert and gwilt to fill that run off role in a more attacking way as they can't actually do that too often if Zac is left alone with a power forward most times he will get beaten...

I think the problems this year lie with our midfield in loosing Lenny and joey not performing aswell as inconsistency throughout... Then the fact that big macca is not a great tap ruckman yet as is getting beaten by the better ruckman in the league and i don't blame that on him i blame it on the coaches for not having a good veteran backup for gardiner who we knew was a fair chance of breaking down and leaving macca to go by himself... and then the fact kosi was going to be that backup but he's more unrealiable injury wise that gards...

our foward structure aswell was missing the big fella kosi, plus the injury / suspension of stanley early in the year was a big setback i think...

so our keys for next year in terms of recruiting are:
- a good rotating mid to release dal or goddard to backline - might cost a little but again this may come from within...
- gorilla backman - might cost a fair bit.. don't collingwood have like 4..?
- veteran ruckman - shouldn't cost much
- super quick agile forward pressure small forward... - might cost a little but may come from within...

our structure will hopefully put us in good stead for next year though with these key ingredients

dempster as a lockdown def on their best small fwd
gorilla on power forward
gwilt/zac on 2'nd tall
fisher to rebound or zone the backline
gilbert to rebound
nicky dal/goddard type as penetrating backman

macca/vet ruckman swap either bench or macca at ff with those hands
lenny/steven/armo/polo hard nuts
joey - if he pulls his finger out/goddard/nicky dal
not sure if armo/lenny/steven/polo can all fit in the same team tho...

roey
schneider
milne
kosi
stanley/walsh
forward pressure small fwd... lightning quick and agile...

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Archer is playing in the back at VFL now.
Archer is heavier than everyone on our list except Gardiner despite being the ninth tallest ( he is 2cm shorter than Dawson, but 4Kg heavier ).
He seems to have a decent awareness/footy smarts , given he's been known to kick a goal backwards over his head ( Check Youtube ) and take a pretty decent hanger.
Is he quick enough? Gorilla Backman?
He's a maybe for mine.