What I want to see from Rhys Stanley and Nick Riewoldt

[SamFisher25]

I want to see Rhys running like the wind inside 50.
I want to see him lead and get off then run around behind his opponent in an arc and mark.
I want to see Roo telling Rhys what to do and I want Roo to stay at home.
Kosi and Macca can take marks up the ground.
Roo and Rhys are our talls now and I want to see them dominate.

 

[Strahany]

I want to see Rhys running like the wind inside 50.
I want to see him lead and get off then run around behind his opponent in an arc and mark.
I want to see Roo telling Rhys what to do and I want Roo to stay at home.
Kosi and Macca can take marks up the ground.
Roo and Rhys are our talls now and I want to see them dominate.

Don't want to rain on your parade, but that can't happen; too many talls. Kosi would have to be an absolute jet, whilst Stanley will need to retain all his agility after gaining all that weight. Can't see that happening, to be honest.

 

[mysainters]

Still wouldn't be surprised to see Stanley in defence.

 

[hayes]

Still wouldn't be surprised to see Stanley in defence.

You'd be the only one.

I like the idea of Stanley with Roo as the other tall. We all saw what he could do in '10 when Roo was out and his speed will be invaluable both will forward pressure and burning opposition players on the lead.

What's this about Stanley putting on weight?

 

[SamFisher25]

burning opposition players on the lead.

 

[mysainters]

You'd be the only one.

I like the idea of Stanley with Roo as the other tall. We all saw what he could do in '10 when Roo was out and his speed will be invaluable both will forward pressure and burning opposition players on the lead.

What's this about Stanley putting on weight?

Would it be surprising though?

Watters has mentioned him when talking about potential defenders quite a few times.

I don't reckon he has showed he's a natural forward, I reckon he'd make a great Ben Reid type defender.

I'm happy to be wrong, just want him to take a position by the scruff of the neck, any one will do

 

[Persevering Saint]

It's hard to define "natural forward". When he does things like this:

[youtube]6OCGwzaJK2U[/youtube]

He looks fantastic.

But then he does things like this:

[youtube]Q5eRV1M4E6o[/youtube]

And you just think, oh dear...

 

[SamFisher25]

i find rhys doing this by round 3 or 4

[YOUTUBE]1b53KNwjExE[/YOUTUBE]
if not, someone within the coaching group needs to be shown the door

 

[Squizz]

I'd be disappointed to see Rhys spend any time down back. With Wilkes, Simpkin, Archer and Ferguson (and Gwilt to return and possibly Gilbert to take a more defensive role) there seems enough cover and development potential.

Looking forward to seeing how he's used, although with our ruck stocks I'd wonder whether we can afford for him to be doing anything else but continuing his development as the #1 ruckman in the VFL.

I'd prefer him at half forward, although Saad, Steven, Milne and Schneider seems a pretty dangerous set-up (if they don't go with Siposs or Goddard) to complement Riewoldt and Koschitzke.

Don't think he's put on that much weight that he won't still be super quick though.

 

[SamFisher25]

I'd be disappointed to see Rhys spend any time down back. With Wilkes, Simpkin, Archer and Ferguson (and Gwilt to return and possibly Gilbert to take a more defensive role) there seems enough cover and development potential.

Looking forward to seeing how he's used, although with our ruck stocks I'd wonder whether we can afford for him to be doing anything else but continuing his development as the #1 ruckman in the VFL.

I'd prefer him at half forward, although Saad, Steven, Milne and Schneider seems a pretty dangerous set-up (if they don't go with Siposs or Goddard) to complement Riewoldt and Koschitzke.

Don't think he's put on that much weight that he won't still be super quick though.

yeah but can i ask you honestly squizz given that you know ur stuff. kosi goes alright in the ruck doesn't he?

 

[Squizz]

yeah but can i ask you honestly squizz given that you know ur stuff. kosi goes alright in the ruck doesn't he?

OK ... I'll bite.

Kosi is a terrible centre bounce ruckman, but is alot more damaging around the ground than most supporting rucks. If he was lurking around half back, teams would be loathe to kick it in his direction (depends on whether the opposing ruckman is able to put pressure on him). He'll swallow it most times third man up if he gets a run at it.

Whilst he gets pushed around too much for my liking as a key forward, he contributed in most games in the second half of the season. And he remains an excellent kick from 50m (as long as there isn't much angle).

Have to say though, his slimmer appearance (backed up by a lower weight on the website) has me more than a little confused as to what his role is going to be.

 

[hayes]

Would it be surprising though?

Watters has mentioned him when talking about potential defenders quite a few times.

I don't reckon he has showed he's a natural forward, I reckon he'd make a great Ben Reid type defender.

I'm happy to be wrong, just want him to take a position by the scruff of the neck, any one will do

I'd be very surprised to see him in the backline. To me he doesn't look like anything but a forward and I think he more than proved that when he replaced Roo when he did his hammy. I've heard Watters mention his name but I've never heard him say he had any plans for him to be a defender.

One silly mistake in the goal square doesn't mean he's not a natural forward. He's tall, extremely quick and was a pretty good kick for goal and showed he's got good hands. That all points to key forward to me.

 

[SamFisher25]

OK ... I'll bite.

Kosi is a terrible centre bounce ruckman, but is alot more damaging around the ground than most supporting rucks. If he was lurking around half back, teams would be loathe to kick it in his direction (depends on whether the opposing ruckman is able to put pressure on him). He'll swallow it most times third man up if he gets a run at it.

Whilst he gets pushed around too much for my liking as a key forward, he contributed in most games in the second half of the season. And he remains an excellent kick from 50m (as long as there isn't much angle).

Have to say though, his slimmer appearance (backed up by a lower weight on the website) has me more than a little confused as to what his role is going to be.

to jump and touch it forward is not guarantee of possession in the same way that to all but tap it to your team-mate is no guarantee either.

there is so much grappling and locking between mids these days that you rarely if ever have a centre-bounce ruckman rucking cleanly to a dominant midfield the way you may have had back in the 80s.

i reckon the only bloke who could do it consistently was ottens and look at the blokes below him (bartel, selwood, kelly etc).

how many ruckmen can put it anywhere near their own player and away from the opposition in the centre bounce these days anyway.

my point is that ruckmen dont win centre clearances unless they are nicnat and they are allowed to mark the centre bounce. will rhys stanley?

i'd reckon all you'd achieve by playing rhys in the ruck is limit his short term burst impact and expose him long term to knee injury.

kosi goes alright in there. he bashes and crashes and competes. our mids need to win the clearances. both kosi and macca can mark on a wing and compete in the ruck. the responsibility for clearance-winning rests with your mids and not your ruck/s these days.

therefor to compete in the air and to merely tap is almost all one can expect from a ruck c.2010 and kosi does that.

 

[Squizz]

I've heard Watters mention his name but I've never heard him say he had any plans for him to be a defender.

Watters threw his name up when queried about the defensive stocks with Dawson leaving. I didn't read a whole lot into it given Watters had been at the club for 5 seconds.

More lately the comments have been more general in terms of Rhys looking like he can have an impact and has stepped up during the pre-season thus far.

 

[Squizz]

i reckon the only bloke who could do it consistently was ottens and look at the blokes below him (bartel, selwood, kelly etc).

how many ruckmen can put it anywhere near their own player and away from the opposition in the centre bounce these days anyway.

I dunno ... it's all about getting it where you have the numbers or key players on the move. Most clubs have a pretty decent tap ruckman - Jolly, Mumford, Jacobs, Warnock, Jamar, Sandilands, Leuenberger, Goldstein. I shouldn't need to mention what Stefan Martin did to Kosi with a big aggressive leap.

But hopefully Kosi could nullify second stringers and be able to get around the ground and have a greater impact that way.

Rhys has a big leap and could impact as a ruckman once he gets maturity in his legs (although alot depends on whether he can bounce back from a knee in the guts or ribs - hasn't been a strength, hence my preference for him to be more of a freewheeler forward in an ideal world).

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

From the reports that have been hitting the media. This is what we heard.

Milne is flying and could be a midfield option
Roo's knee is ok and could be playing more up the ground.
Stanley has impressed and should start in the forward line.
Kosi has impressed and has had a full pre-season and is finally injury free but I can't remember them saying anything about possible positions. So lets say forward.
Same thing was heard about Simpkin, was impressing and is also fit for the first pre-season in a long time. So IMO will start in the back line for sure.
From training reports Wilkes has always been seen with the defenders so I think his role will be clear.

A lot will be revealed during NAB Cup. I would have loved to hear a bit more about Sipposs and Steven. Havn't heard anything really, but if he's firing I'd like to see a forward line of Sipposs Kosi Stanley. I don't think Roo should play FF any more. I have a feeling his knee isn't going to get better. HF/HFF and bench for long peroids to stretch out the next couple seasons.

 

[SamFisher25]

I dunno ... it's all about getting it where you have the numbers or key players on the move. Most clubs have a pretty decent tap ruckman - Jolly, Mumford, Jacobs, Warnock, Jamar, Sandilands, Leuenberger, Goldstein. I shouldn't need to mention what Stefan Martin did to Kosi with a big aggressive leap.

Jolly - gone, was good but ruckwork is such a dying art
Mumford - handy at best. tapping is largely guesswork
Jacobs - useless
Warnock - see jacobs
Jamar - rucks to nothing/no-one
Sandilands - see jamar
Leuenberger - see sandilands
Goldstein - see leuenberger (effect of being a good tap ruckman and getting hand on pill undone by typically a hawthorn or collingwood whose midfields scrag and refuse to allow clearances against them through grappling, body position and various other anti-social measures)

But hopefully Kosi could nullify second stringers and be able to get around the ground and have a greater impact that way.

totally

Rhys has a big leap and could impact as a ruckman once he gets maturity in his legs (although alot depends on whether he can bounce back from a knee in the guts or ribs - hasn't been a strength, hence my preference for him to be more of a freewheeler forward in an ideal world).

total freewheeler and number three ruck at the moment.
IMO we can no longer afford to have kosi clogging it up up in the forward line and stunting rhys's development. while kosi is still good we can use him but we need to bring rhysy on this season. agreed.

 

[Falchoon]

It's hard to define "natural forward". When he does things like this:

[youtube]6OCGwzaJK2U[/youtube]

He looks fantastic.

he looks very quick 2 minutes in, what we haven't seen is he being quick 20 minutes into the 3rd quarter.


What I want to see from Rhys Stanley is more endurance.

 

[saintsrfreak]

total freewheeler and number three ruck at the moment.
IMO we can no longer afford to have kosi clogging it up up in the forward line and stunting rhys's development. while kosi is still good we can use him but we need to bring rhysy on this season. agreed.

What a load of absolute shit.
All of the rucks listed are better tap ruckmen than Ben and certainly Kosi.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Part of the discussion with Rhys is what happened in that wet game last year... where was it? Brisbane? He was getting absolutely towelled, but what do you expect on a wet night? I DO remember though that Riewoldt absolutely ripped into him about it - he was furious. And after that, Stanley was dropped, and spent the rest of the year in the 2s.

Surely, part of the issue with Stanley is whether he has the work ethic to do what he needs to. That's between the ears. It's a decision he has to make. Now, from the sounds of things from Watters, he's really stepped up and wants to grow in his footy. But time will surely tell.

You're right though, Falc - he has to get more stamina, and that comes from training, and that comes from discipline, and that comes from having the will and guts to do it.

 

[mysainters]

Part of the discussion with Rhys is what happened in that wet game last year... where was it? Brisbane? He was getting absolutely towelled, but what do you expect on a wet night? I DO remember though that Riewoldt absolutely ripped into him about it - he was furious. And after that, Stanley was dropped, and spent the rest of the year in the 2s.

Yeah it was Brissy, thing is he didn't even lay a tackle that night. Which was contrast to his previous game which though quiet, had him at least trying.

Seems to be two arguments of thought, that he lacks self belief, or that he has it in abundance and some.

 

[stkildathunda]

Yeah it was Brissy, thing is he didn't even lay a tackle that night. Which was contrast to his previous game which though quiet, had him at least trying.

Seems to be two arguments of thought, that he lacks self belief, or that he has it in abundance and some.

That Brisbane game he copped a knee injury or something from memory. Was subbed off before half time... No big man was good that game, Kosi was horrendous aswell.

 

[Squizz]

Some old comments seem relevant to the thread:

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/afl/afl-news/a-saints-new-dawn-20111210-1op27.html

Hamill said ... his focus will naturally fall on the younger players, including the promising Arryn Siposs and Rhys Stanley.

“Stanley is just so difficult to match up on. He has been in the system for a couple of years now,” he said. “We will find out where he is at. I think he is an exceptional athlete.”

 

[mysainters]

Kosi was horrendous aswell.

You actually can't help it can you

 

[stkildathunda]

You actually can't help it can you

I was just making the point that Rhys wasnt the only horrible big forward that night But yea it is hard to control