What I want to see from Rhys Stanley and Nick Riewoldt

[SaintsSeptember]

I can see (in time) Sippa getting contested marks. Schneider and Milne have always punched above their weight (height) in this area.

Agree Rhys won't add anything to an area where Kosi and Roo struggle at times. But he does chase in the VFL - and he is _ucking quick. Whether he sticks the tackles when he catches them is the issue!

But really we need more goals from our mids. This takes pressure off the forwards, and creates a bit more room as teams need to cover the 50m line (not just run to Riewoldt).

Macca and Gardi scored 17 goals in 2010. Macca got 4 last year.

Dal, BJ, Gram and Monty got 67 in 2010. 45 in 2011.

The issue is amplified because CJ and Boogie (as good as they are at other aspects of the game) just don't kick any. At the risk of being howled down, Lenny doesn't really kick them either!

Interesting to look at the average goals/game over 2009 2010 and 2011.
2009/2010/2011
1 Roo 3.3/2.6/1.6 = nearly 2 goals per game down.
2 Kosi 2.1/1.4/1.2 = I hope the trend (Roo as well) doesn't continue
3 Milne 2.0/2.3/2.4 = who says he a downhill skiier?
4 Schnied 1.4/1.6/1.4 = we know what to expect
5 Armitage 1/ 0.4 / 0.5 = WTF happened here.
6 Steven 1/ 1.3 / 0.6 = Too busy in the middle?
7 McQualter 0.9 / 0.3 / 0 = why didnt the coach notice,everyone else did?
8 DalSanto 0.7 / 0.6/ 0.6 = no problemo
9 BJ 0.6 / 1.0 /0.6
10 Gardiner 0.6 /0.5

In 2010 Montagna (0.7) Stanley ( 0.6) and Gram (0.5) joined the top 10.
In 2011 Cripps (1.8) was second behind Milne despite being a sub
Siposs averaged 1.0 the same as Gamble
Tom Lynch 0.8.

Of that lot Kosi took the most contested marks ( 1.5 /game ) followed by Riewoldt ( 1.3 ). Milne/Goddard/Lynch 0.6.
Nowhere near enough I would have thought.

The other weird thing I noticed is that , for a player running out of the backline, Gram tends to score as well or better than some of the others who are normally closer to the sticks ( Ray/Polo/Jones ).

FWIW in 2009 Luke Ball had 0.2 goals per game


What does it mean. I guess playing guys like Cripps, Steven and Armitage instead of others like Polo and Geary can only improve things.
Maybe they should be used as more outside players ( though tricky with Armitage) and let others like Lenny and Ledge do the grunt work.

We need more contested marks in the forward 50.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

Someone who has the capacity to hurt others physically and that's part of the reason why ppl go to the footy ie. the potential in a contact sport that physicality will be displayed.

You've seen that almost every premiership team in history has had at least one hardman. Every good team needs a hardman and Kosi is the hard man at St Kilda. No-one doubts his hardness.

Kosi is hard but can also be reckless. He's no value sitting in the sands serving suspensions.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

If someone else can get more than 1 contested mark a game in the forward line at StKilda they'd have a good chance of replacing Kosi.

Having said that, most of the ball goes flying towards Riewoldt. Statistics say its the wrong target.

 

[SamFisher25]

Kosi is hard but can also be reckless. He's no value sitting in the sands serving suspensions.

i was looking for a good mechanic on the nepean highway...

 

[SamFisher25]

If someone else can get more than 1 contested mark a game in the forward line at StKilda they'd have a good chance of replacing Kosi.

Having said that, most of the ball goes flying towards Riewoldt. Statistics say its the wrong target.

any 3rd man up stats because i have a feeling with the new ruck rule that kosi could come into his own.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

any 3rd man up stats because i have a feeling with the new ruck rule that kosi could come into his own.

I thought the only new ruck rules applied to NAB cup only

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

I thought the only new ruck rules applied to NAB cup only

Correct.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The rule that is Ironic for us is the two sub two man bench, that would have favoured the Saints over the last couple of years, but by the time its in we'll have a few youngsters coming through that would benefit from rotations off the bench.

 

[SamFisher25]

Correct.

i thought it was too but it looks like they are going to introduce it this season

 

[SaintsSeptember]

http://www.afl.com.au/laws%20of%20the%20game/tabid/13956/default.aspx

THE AFL will not enforce any rules changes for 2012.

The League wrote to all clubs to confirm there would be no rule changes for the 2012 season, meaning the interchange rule and advantage rule will remain unchanged.

The AFL Commission accepted a recommendation from the Laws of the Game Committee that the interchange and advantage rules should remain the same.

However the commission approved a further set of interpretation changes - including minor adjustments to reduce the length of the game by instructing umpires to reduce the time taken to re-start play after throw-ins and goals - along with a continued strict interpretation of deliberate out of bounds, including penalising ruckmen who deliberately knock the ball out of bounds from a ruck contest even when it is not on the full.

 

[mysainters]

Footy season must be close, people are warming up finding their whipping boys.

 

[SamFisher25]

http://www.afl.com.au/laws%20of%20the%20game/tabid/13956/default.aspx

THE AFL will not enforce any rules changes for 2012.

The League wrote to all clubs to confirm there would be no rule changes for the 2012 season, meaning the interchange rule and advantage rule will remain unchanged.

The AFL Commission accepted a recommendation from the Laws of the Game Committee that the interchange and advantage rules should remain the same.

However the commission approved a further set of interpretation changes - including minor adjustments to reduce the length of the game by instructing umpires to reduce the time taken to re-start play after throw-ins and goals - along with a continued strict interpretation of deliberate out of bounds, including penalising ruckmen who deliberately knock the ball out of bounds from a ruck contest even when it is not on the full.

aware that that was the official line and that the laws 2012 has been in print.
however, just a bit of a whisper around that the ruck rule is very very popular at AFL House.
just saying that there's still a couple of weeks before the season starts, do not be surprised.

 

[citywest]

If someone else can get more than 1 contested mark a game in the forward line at StKilda they'd have a good chance of replacing Kosi.

Having said that, most of the ball goes flying towards Riewoldt. Statistics say its the wrong target.

Stanley should replace Kosi IMHO. He is quicker, more agile, taller, had far fewer injuries, has bulked up slightly and younger than Kosi. He just needs games under his belt and confidence (which comes with more games).

 

[Squizz]

To be fair, Rhys was injured for much of last year (hammy).

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Stanley should replace Kosi IMHO. He is quicker, more agile, taller, had far fewer injuries, has bulked up slightly and younger than Kosi. He just needs games under his belt and confidence (which comes with more games).

Like I said it would be easy to replace Kosi in the team, but he needs to be pushed out.
So far there hasn't been a great deal of pushing.
They guy who got the biggest bag of goals for Sandringham last year only did it on one occasion, then he moved to Sydney.

So far in AFL Rhys hasn't been able to contest a mark as well as Kosi.
His average is less than 1. If he could average 1.5 -2 per game I'd be screaming to get him in.

Its bloody annoying when players like Sam Reid and Jack Darling are picked up relatively late in the draft and are playing well a year or so later, but then you realise that even Jack Watts ( who was number one draft pick the same year Rhys was drafted ) doesn't average out much better than Kosi.

 

[Squizz]

Some interesting comments on Rhys from Grammy:

http://www.saints.com.au/radio interviews/tabid/17238/default.aspx

Actually quite in depth on a number of topics.

 

[mysainters]

That was an interesting listen thanks.

I noted the part where he said v Sydney, the boys were playing on at about 60% which is record pace. Said they had to get the balance right, but for mine, it's nice to see evidence of some tweaks to the game plan.

 

[Squizz]

I noted the part where he said v Sydney, the boys were playing on at about 60% which is record pace. Said they had to get the balance right, but for mine, it's nice to see evidence of some tweaks to the game plan.

I guess that is something the better teams are able to do (keep the ball moving). You need the kicking skills though - otherwise it comes unstuck quite quickly, as was evident against the Swans.

Gotta wonder whether (in a general sense) we'd give the ball back too many times to make it work just at the minute.

Obviously you are quite partial to Gears. I admire his competitiveness (and he's been called a freak by Ledger in terms of fitness), although - probably being a little harsh here - I've got to wonder how we can execute the play-on game with Boogie, CJ, Gears, Blake, Peake, Polo, Raph and Wilkes (Gilbo and Grammy too, although their ability to get a break and rebound compensates to a fair degree) needing to hit targets and also noting they very much have a non-preferred side!

I'd be more interested in starting to see the genuine multi-pronged forward line coming into effect*, shots being taken from 50m (including much more from our mids), kicking over players and letting them run onto the ball more often, and more rotation of players through the team to keep them fresh and avoid injuries to the younger ones (obviously guys coming in need to be playing well).

But with Rhys - if he can stay injury free, he'll add to the mix. He - like Sippa - can kick goals from outside 50.



* Roo has to stop commanding the ball every time, and his ability to draw a crowd has to be used to our advantage for a change.

 

[Value Added]

I want to see Nick get more help.

 

[citywest]

I guess that is something the better teams are able to do (keep the ball moving). You need the kicking skills though - otherwise it comes unstuck quite quickly, as was evident against the Swans.

Gotta wonder whether (in a general sense) we'd give the ball back too many times to make it work just at the minute.

Obviously you are quite partial to Gears. I admire his competitiveness (and he's been called a freak by Ledger in terms of fitness), although - probably being a little harsh here - I've got to wonder how we can execute the play-on game with Boogie, CJ, Gears, Blake, Peake, Polo, Raph and Wilkes (Gilbo and Grammy too, although their ability to get a break and rebound compensates to a fair degree) needing to hit targets and also noting they very much have a non-preferred side!

I'd be more interested in starting to see the genuine multi-pronged forward line coming into effect*, shots being taken from 50m (including much more from our mids), kicking over players and letting them run onto the ball more often, and more rotation of players through the team to keep them fresh and avoid injuries to the younger ones (obviously guys coming in need to be playing well).

But with Rhys - if he can stay injury free, he'll add to the mix. He - like Sippa - can kick goals from outside 50.



* Roo has to stop commanding the ball every time, and his ability to draw a crowd has to be used to our advantage for a change.

Well put squizzy.
I would even go a step further and devise a plan that Rooey can act as a decoy for Rhys sometime during the game. Say in Round 1 he could be a decoy in the second quarter. During this quarter Rooey goes on the long lead and takes 3 defenders with him. With ball in BJ's hands he then pin points a spare Rhys in the goal square.

This would change from game to game and quarter to quarter even. It can work to our advantage. It will eventually also work to Rooey's advantage as well. The defenders will realize what is going on and they won't be so quick to triple team Rooey hence giving Rooey more 1 on 1 opportunities. It can work as long as the player with the ball running forward of centre is either BJ, Dal or Joey. Those 3 obviously have the kicking skills to hit players on the chest. You wouldn't want Jones, Raph or Polo with the ball.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Well put squizzy.
I would even go a step further and devise a plan that Rooey can act as a decoy for Rhys sometime during the game. Say in Round 1 he could be a decoy in the second quarter. During this quarter Rooey goes on the long lead and takes 3 defenders with him. With ball in BJ's hands he then pin points a spare Rhys in the goal square.

This would change from game to game and quarter to quarter even. It can work to our advantage. It will eventually also work to Rooey's advantage as well. The defenders will realize what is going on and they won't be so quick to triple team Rooey hence giving Rooey more 1 on 1 opportunities. It can work as long as the player with the ball running forward of centre is either BJ, Dal or Joey. Those 3 obviously have the kicking skills to hit players on the chest. You wouldn't want Jones, Raph or Polo with the ball.

BJ, Dal, Joey, Cripps, Armitage, Steven, Ledger , Ross, Siposs.
Get with the times man. Is there a bad kick among that lot?


While I still see a place in the team for Dempster and Jones, I'd like to think that Geary, Polo, Raph and Peake and Blake will become depth players. While I'm very fond of some of these guys, they are where I'd prefer the next wave of delistings to come from. ( Though much will depend on how the next generation aquit themselves).

If it was me I'd be playing Cripps and Ledger as much as possible, using the others to rest them generously.

 

[Persevering Saint]

In his latest interview, Grammy was very emphatic that Stanley has really "ripped it" in training, and is pretty sure that he's going to be a big player this year.

 

[citywest]

In his latest interview, Grammy was very emphatic that Stanley has really "ripped it" in training, and is pretty sure that he's going to be a big player this year.

I hope so, I really do.