What They're Saying - The Bulldogs Media Thread - Part 4

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lachy said:
So your false equivalency is comparing a hamstring injury with a life altering brain injury as a result of a workplace accident? (Yes the football field is their workplace)
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It is an interesting idea that the effects of CTE is more life altering than a life of pain that can be brought on playing high level contact sport.

Is there a appreciable difference? If yes then I would like to see the evidence as I don't really think we fully understand the toll chronic pain places on people. If not would you be comfortable seeing someone like Clay Smith suing the AFL and club in old age when they can barely walk?
 
Dogs_r_barking said:
I just feel for Liam and the impact this is having on his family. He is suffering from “irritability, anxiety, depression and stress“and not able to concentrate.
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I feel for Liam, but to be fair there are millions of middle-aged men who suffer the same symptoms you’ve listed who have not had issues with concussion.
 
immortalmike said:
It is an interesting idea that the effects of CTE is more life altering than a life of pain that can be brought on playing high level contact sport.

Is there a appreciable difference? If yes then I would like to see the evidence as I don't really think we fully understand the toll chronic pain places on people. If not would you be comfortable seeing someone like Clay Smith suing the AFL and club in old age when they can barely walk?
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To be blunt, if it was shown there was negligence in sending him out to play when he was at greater risk of life long cronic pain, absolutely.

From my understanding this was not the case.

Since 2010 we have known the significant issues in regards to concussion. Much more significant than cronic pain. That as a sport we took till 2019 to even bring in protocols, well we will reap what we sow.

From a risk perspective we have come a long way. Significant penalties for head high contact and concussion protocols. I can see these extending to 28 days and then, and only then will the argument that players know what they are getting into have any credibility at all

On SM-G996B using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
All I'll say about the Picken issue (and other claims) is that it's the ultimate Pandora's Box.

Good luck to the players and they deserve to be recognised and compensated, especially if they have lifelong injuries.

As soon as a player or group of players win a case and there's a payout or payouts, lookout. Could easily send clubs broke and put the AFL in a very very awkward spot.
 

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Nath09 said:
www.theage.com.au

Former Bulldog Liam Picken launches legal action against AFL, club, doctors after concussions

Premiership player Liam Picken has launched legal action against the AFL, Western Bulldogs and club doctors after he says he was returned to the field despite suffering on-field concussions.
www.theage.com.au www.theage.com.au

Premiership player Liam Picken has launched civil action against the AFL, Western Bulldogs and club doctors after he says he was returned to the field despite suffering on-field concussions.

Lawyers for Picken claim throughout his time with the Bulldogs, the 36-year-old repeatedly returned irregular cognitive test results, but was never made aware of these or sent for specialist management.

Liam Picken marks the ball in front of Shane Kersten.

Liam Picken marks the ball in front of Shane Kersten.CREDIT:DARRIAN TRAYNOR

This was despite both he and his partner allegedly raising concerns with the club about his ongoing symptoms.
Picken’s legal team allege the AFL, Western Bulldogs, and club doctors Gary Zimmerman and Jacob Landsberger were negligent and breached their duty of care for Picken, who now lives with ongoing impacts including photophobia — an aversion to bright light.

Picken — who hails from Hamilton in the state’s southwest — retired from professional football in 2019 after 198 games and a decade with the club. At the time, he said he decided to walk away due to ongoing concussion issues.
Principal lawyer at National Compensation Lawyers, Michael Tanner told The Age their 36-year-old client was still grappling with dramatic and ongoing effects of concussion which continued to impact his cognitive and psychological health.

Second Qualifying Final at the MCG - Geelong v Western Bulldogs - in 2009. Bulldogs tagger Liam Picken.

Second Qualifying Final at the MCG - Geelong v Western Bulldogs - in 2009. Bulldogs tagger Liam Picken. CREDIT:pAUL ROVERE

“From Liam’s perspective, he was never made aware of his failings of any cognitive assessment he ever underwent. Further to that, he did not necessarily understand the full extent of his injuries or his symptoms,” Tanner said.

“What he did was voice his concerns about his symptoms. The medical advice given to him at the time was (he was) still fit to play.”

Court documents lodged with the Supreme Court this week state under the current regulations, no AFL club shall allow a player to train or play in any match where they are suspected to be not in a fit state to play.

Picken’s legal team allege during his time with the Bulldogs, he repeatedly recorded irregular and below-average baseline tests during his time at the club. Despite these results, Picken said he was never made aware of them, referred to an expert in concussion management or sent for further testing such as brain scans.

Liam Picken is assisted from the field during the round three AFL match between the Fremantle Dockers and the Western Bulldogs in 2017.

Liam Picken is assisted from the field during the round three AFL match between the Fremantle Dockers and the Western Bulldogs in 2017.CREDIT:GETTY

Throughout this time, he said he also continued to train with the club and compete in AFL competitions.
Court documents filed reference two specific head knocks of particular concern, one during a round three clash at Perth against Fremantle in April 2017, and a preseason match against Hawthorn in Ballarat in March 2018.

During the incident against Fremantle, Picken clashed with an opposition player during a marking contest and as a result, the opposition player pressed his opponent’s head into the ground.
At Ballarat in 2018, Picken was knocked out during a marking contest. In both instances, his legal team allege, he was assessed for and diagnosed with concussion before returning to training almost immediately.
As a result, his lawyers allege those including the AFL were negligent and allowed Picken to be exposed to unnecessary risk or harm.

Liam Picken lies on the field injured during the AFL JLT Community Series match between the Western Bulldogs and the Hawks on March 3, 2018 in Ballarat.

Liam Picken lies on the field injured during the AFL JLT Community Series match between the Western Bulldogs and the Hawks on March 3, 2018 in Ballarat.CREDIT:SCOTT BARBOUR

As for the Bulldogs, court documents allege the club also failed to ensure Picken’s safety and allowed him to return to full training and competition matches when it was unsafe to do so.

Tanner said they will allege the “greater good of the game” was put ahead of their client’s health.
“Liam is greatly affected by it all and we say with proper medical care, his injuries could’ve been avoided,” Tanner said.
“The AFL’s rules and regulations, they had created, were not followed.
“Liam was also never made aware of him failing any of his cognitive assessments. He [also] did not understand the full extent of his injuries or his symptoms.”
Picken retired from football in 2019 and court documents filed on his behalf allege this was as a consequence of his injury with club doctor Zimmerman later providing him with an end of career medical that specifically cited post concussion syndrome.

His legal team said Picken’s brain injury has left him with ongoing headaches, lethargy, irritability, poor concentration, severe levels of depression, anxiety and stress.
In documents filed, they are claiming a loss of earnings and ongoing medical costs.
Picken isn’t the first former player to launch civil action citing concussion.
Last week, former AFLW Collingwood vice captain Emma Grant launched a civil lawsuit against the Pies after suffering prolonged concussion which resulted in her early retirement. The 33-year-old utility suffered a debilitating head injury during a preseason practice match in 2020.
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We should be furious at the media. Time after time they aggressively insisted that club doctors always do the right thing and that it was stupid to even want an independent doctor for concussion tests. Yet almost immediately players have had grievances which appear legitimate.
 
Dogs Rule said:
All I'll say about the Picken issue (and other claims) is that it's the ultimate Pandora's Box.

Good luck to the players and they deserve to be recognised and compensated, especially if they have lifelong injuries.

As soon as a player or group of players win a case and there's a payout or payouts, lookout. Could easily send clubs broke and put the AFL in a very very awkward spot.
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It will be very interesting to see how it plays out. With the clubs all being non-profits I think they’d probably be able structure their way out of the liability Catholic Church style but it wouldn’t be easy. If the AFL is found responsible that becomes a challenge.
 
Bulldogs85 said:
The manager of Western Bulldogs spearhead Aaron Naughton has silence whispers that the Western Australian will be making his way home during this year's trade period, claiming the 23-year-old "loves the Bulldogs".

Recruited from WAFL side Peel Thunderwith the ninth pick of the 2017 AFL Draft, Naughton has played 100 games in red, white and blue, earning goalkicking honours last season at the Kennel.

While originally born in Victoria, the 195cm target has called the West home for much of his life. And though recently linked with a shift to join the Dockers' blossoming forward as early as this year, Naughton's manager, Andrew McDougall of Corporate Sports Australia, poured cold water on claims.
“I have spoken to Aaron a number of times over the break and he's still got two years to run on his contract. He loves the Bulldogs, loves the footy club and he's just really looking forward to the year,” McDougall told News Corp.



Contracted at the Whitten Oval until the cessation of the 2024 season, Naughton has security on Barkly Street for another 18 months. And while the Dogs have their main offensive target under lock and key, the club remains keen to extend ties with the headband-wearing forward.

“He has still got a bit of time to play out before the decisions are made either way (at the end of 2025), so at this stage, he's really happy and setting some strong goals at the club with new additions to the Bulldogs. He is in a really good spot at the moment," McDougall added.
Last week, both Naughton and Port Adelaide's Mitch Georgiades were listed as being "very firmly" on the Dockers' radar by 7News' Ryan Daniels. However, when pressed further on the likelihood of Naughton playing in purple next season, McDougall stated interest may be present but a desire to move was not.

“It is extremely unlikely for anything to happen this year with two years left on his contract. Aaron is in really good hands with the club and also really happy at the club and with his teammates. He loves the footy club," the former Eagle and Dog turned player manager said.

“Both Aaron and Tim (English) are out of contract for 2024. Both are from WA are both are happy at the Western Bulldogs. I'm sure not only WA clubs but a number of clubs will inquire about both players over the next two years.”
Although Naughton remains the main man in Luke Beveridge's forward line, the Pups have multiple mouths ahead of the ball in 2023, with blue-chip youngster Jamarra Ugle-Hagan roaming within forward 50, as well as fellow CSA clients in Rory Lobb and English.

“With Rory in tandem with Aaron they will have to put a solid defender on him too and they have big Timmy English pushing forward from the ruck, so it's a really good three-way team, and Jamara is coming along too so having Rory there with Aaron is a really good bonus for the club and Aaron, who won't always have three players on him," McDougall plotted.

Naughton and the Bulldogs are fixtured to face North Melbourne at Princes Park on Saturday afternoon in both club's final pre-season hitout.

The Dogs will open their 2023 season proper when facing recent rivals Melbourne at the MCG on Saturday, March 18.
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if you understand anything about the WA media you would know this is just attention seeking behaviour by the journalist. To say WA clubs are interested is the most Captain Obvious statement of all time.
As his manager says it would not just be WA clubs that are interested
 
ossie_21 said:
I can’t recall any former player of any club name drop an ex-teammate, have you? Like I said, he’s tried to deflect the blame onto the club a bit too much for the amount of blown chances he had. There was some honesty in there and of course we can take it, but it’s not really a good look on his part
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I am not too upset but I agree that his comment on Marra were the height of irony and shows an alarming lack of self awareness
 
NBates said:
If anyone is going to Danny/Boyd podcast live tomorrow, please take lots of notes and give a report here please.
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Anyone else going to this?
 
The Western Bulldogs’ Rolls Royce is back in mint condition ready to fire on all cylinders after losing the sheen in a gruelling 2022.

Buoyed by a summer where he has not missed a session, Dogs captain Marcus Bontempelli has declared he is back to 100 per cent fitness in a positive sign the favourite son of the west is ready to rediscover his superstar ways.
Bontempelli is coming off a relatively lean campaign by his lofty standards, dogged by injuries from the third quarter of round one.

An ankle injury in the season-opener was soon followed by a shoulder issue in round three, though it was not until June when coach Luke Beveridge revealed how hampered Bontempelli was by the AC problem.
On the eve of his fourth year as the top Dog, Bontempelli revealed how injuries had limited him last year.

“At different times you definitely feel more restricted,” Bontempelli told The Age. “That’s what it was at the end, when you didn’t have the full complement of your physical capability to do what you know you’re capable of doing.
“I do feel like that’s our game. So often you have to be able to deal with things on the fly, manage things and get yourself going.”

Time out would have given Bontempelli the chance to freshen up and quieten the aches but as captain he wanted to play on.
“I couldn’t put my finger on one [injury],” Bontempelli said. “The red light was flashing at different points. With the F1 coming up, I could have done with an oil or tyre change at different points.

“The couple of different things impacted my ability to move around the way I wanted to. I was always going to be out there as much as I could. It’s a new season, I’m feeling good, let the past be the past for now.”
On top of the physical impediments, the strain of the Dogs playing catch-up also took its toll on Bontempelli. Grand finalists the year before, the Dogs won just three of their first eight games. They were in the eight for just four rounds, not booking their finals berth until the final day of the home and away season.

The Dogs face a challenging start to the season with games against finalists Melbourne, Brisbane, Richmond and Fremantle in the first seven rounds.

“There’s no doubt there was an aspect on our football that wasn’t going well enough too, so you’re dealing with a different type of fatigue, a mental and emotional fatigue at not being able to produce our best often enough and trying to work through that,” Bontempelli said.

“They are marathons, football seasons, nowadays. We have an extra game, so it’s longer than ever. Trying to produce your best earlier gives you a chance to feel better throughout a season. That’s what I’m keen on, starting the season off really well in what will be a tough month and six weeks of games.”

Just as Patrick Cripps rediscovered his best when fit again, similar is expected of Bontempelli, who has been tipped by two rival captains to add the Brownlow Medal to his already brimming trophy cabinet.
“So far I feel really good, haven’t missed too much of pre-season, which I think is really crucial to you lasting the season,” Bontempelli said.

“Sometimes you have to play catch-up because of surgery or other different reasons but for now, I’m feeling good, feeling confident and ready to rip into things.”
 
NBates said:
If anyone is going to Danny/Boyd podcast live tomorrow, please take lots of notes and give a report here please.
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They reviewed the first quarter of the EF, the second quarter of the SF, and the fourth quarters of the PF & GF.

A few notes:

  • Biggsy and Clay are great value.

  • Tom Boyd is actually a pretty funny dude.

  • When Biggys had those massive second, third, fourth, fifth and 28th combined efforts leading up to Picken's GF goal, he had been asked to come off the ground. He also mentioned, "I thought I was gonna kick a snag" in that same passage of play immediately after Tom Boyd had his kick smothered.

  • Danny made fun of the Auskicker not agreeing with Biggsy's "fashion sense" after Biggsy placed a cap backwards on the Auskicker's head after receiving his premiership medal. The Auskicker corrected it by placing his cap forwards (watch this on a replay, it's quite funny).

  • After the WCE win, Clay thought we were going to win the flag. Biggsy also thought we'd win the GF after we'd won our way through.

  • Boydy didn't realise we were more than two goals down during the final quarter of the PF until he watched the replay years later. He mentioned he thought we were in control and it never dawned on him we were 14 pts down. He did acknowledge that he was extremely tired in that game, the most exhausted he'd ever been.

  • Clay also said he was very tired in the second half of the PF. He was asked about his snap at goal in the last quarter (after Libba's epic handball over his head) which missed the goals by 20m - Clay's response was simply that his legs were feeling it. That's clearly evident when you watch the replay.

  • The boys had a bit of a chuckle about Boyd and Cyril having a bit of a brawl on the half time siren of the SF

  • Emma Quayle interviewed Boyd after we'd beaten Hawthorn. He mentioned to her that he's playing through a shoulder injury and he'll need surgery after the season. When he arrived at training the following day, Joel Corey and Stephen King gave him a death stare and asked him, "What have you done" because Quayle wrote about it that morning in The Age. He mentioned Mummy hit his shoulder about 50 times before the bounce, and some other GWS players were doing the same thing throughout the match.

  • After Boyd missed a shot at goal on the run with four mins to go in the GF, Clay said, "If you kicked that you'd have won the Norm". Boyd showcased some of his humour by putting on a funny voice, exhibiting some funny facial expression and saying, "Gee, I haven't heard that one before."

  • There was an issue getting to Perth on the Wednesday night before the EF. Issues with the plane. They arrived six hours later than they had planned and they ended up training at 8:45pm with no sunlight and have a dinner at midnight. Just another thing that went wrong for us yet somehow we pulled off an unexpectedly brilliant victory.

  • They seemed to get stuck into Cordy a few times in some of the matches reviewed. I couldn't really work out what was going on there, whether they have enjoyed banter with him over the years or they genuinely don't like him. Maybe I'm reading into it too much. Clay did however mention during one Cordy highlight "he actually did well there", and he also acknowledged that Zaine gave him the handball that led to the opening goal of the PF.

  • McLean and Picken got the most cheers from the quarters reviewed. Danny absolutely loves Toby.

  • There's some sort of connection between Toby and Danny. I think I have this right, but I reckon he mentioned his wife is best friends with Toby's sister (or perhaps it was Toby's missus, I can't recall). Danny mentioned that Toby lost his father when he was a kid, and the night of the SF was ten years to the day that Toby's father passed away.

  • Danny wanted the audience to take note of Bevo's actions when Woody and Bob held the premiership cup aloft for the first time. For a split second, Bevo goes to grab hold of the Cup. He made a joke about that which was pretty funny.

  • A few would already know this, but Clay mentioned he's coaching Point Cook this year and "Lukey D" is joining him. He said Lukey D has had special treatment because of his status where he's been training 0-1 times per week. He said when he starts getting 30 touches every week the boys won't care.

  • Biggsy is running around for some team called "Bort" in the Loddon Valley League.

  • Boydy said after he kicked that ****ing Titanic goal in the GF, Picko went up to him as the ball was going back to the centre to restart play to tell him to get his head back into the game. Boydy told Pickers, "Mate, we've got this."

  • They touched on our average form leading into finals. During this reflection, Boyd mentioned some Freo supporters spat on him during the R23 match.
 
X_box_X said:
  • Biggsy is running around for some team called "Bort" in the Loddon Valley League.
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Boort is part of Footscray history. That's where the legendary Gentleman John Schultz hails from.
About an hour's drive north of Bendigo.
 
Optimistic Dog said:
Not sure about the membership day offering a free upgrade if you buy a 3 day membership to a full home member tomorrow. Personally, whatever I pay above the 3 game membership I am happy for the amount to go to the club. On one hand it is good to get more members but on the other hand I can see loyal supporters struggling in these tough economic times being a bit pissed off of supporting the club year in year old and the johnno come lately getting a better deal.

I guess it is bit like the deals you get from the energy companies and banks as new clients.
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I am ok with it most clubs do this sort of thing nowdays
 
Dogs 13 said:
So for their much smaller "donation" they get the same entitlements as those of us paying full tote odds (46 years in my case). Seems fair.

As I said in the membership thread, loyalty is just taken for granted. Although the post below surprised me no end. I've never heard of such a thing happening.


Unlike your pornhub subscription membership of a football club is a luxury not a necessity, so don't take us for granted :p
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No member is being taken for granted

The idea with promos like this is to get new members who will stick in future years with a full membership after sampling this offer. it’s a common marketing tactic across many businesses

Sure not all will stick nut if you get 10% success then you are ahead

Overall it will make us a stronger club and that benefits everyone
 

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What They're Saying - The Bulldogs Media Thread - Part 4

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