What They're Saying - The Bulldogs Media Thread - Part 4

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D Mitchell said:
Business and Footy aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. Ideally, it'd be a draw, not a fixture, but it isn't. We've benefitted in the past with assistance when needed, which can't be given unless revenue is maximised. As long as you insist on paying 22 year old footballers hundreds of thousands and AFL execs even more, then revenue has to have priority.
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Mostly agree with that. I wasn’t saying they were mutually exclusive, just that making extra bucks always has primacy. It doesn’t have to be that way but it is. The money men have control of the temple.

We insist on paying 22yos mega-shekels simply because the money is there from all the revenue-first activities of the AFL. The AFLPA and agents see the gold and understandably they want some of it. A lot of it in fact.

It’s a chicken or egg thing though. If the AFL chose not to be quite so mercenary but instead put the betterment of the sport and the competition first, there wouldn’t be quite so much lazy loot lying around for the players to covet.

None of this would mean we’d have to miss out on “assistance” (which for the most part is really hush money for copping the rough end of the fixturing).
 
The Inbetweener said:
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Meh...His 30metre kicks into the forward line have always been elite

His problem always was when he was anywhere else on the ground that he couldn't kick much more then 40 metres.

The may not be a problem at Melbourne but it was when he was with us.
 
Well stats aren't the be and end all but Oskar Baker is elite for goal accuracy, kicks to handball ratio, marks and brooding angry appearance
 

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St 07 said:
Well stats aren't the be and end all but Oskar Baker is elite for goal accuracy, kicks to handball ratio, marks and brooding angry appearance
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In the 99.9th percentile for intimidating stomps of his feet, too.
 
dogwatch said:
M....

None of this would mean we’d have to miss out on “assistance” (which for the most part is really hush money for copping the rough end of the fixturing).
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Such cynicism from one so young. Pre admission of expansion clubs, indeed, during the process, clubs like ours were broke, surviving on VFL dividends. Had the VFL gone isolationist, we'd have disappeared. For all the apparent inequities, we've done well out of AFL revenue chasing. Using the EU as an analogy, we started out as Ireland/Greece, benefitted from motorways and flash new farmhouses, now no longer a member of PIGS, getting closer to pre Brexit UK, not yet quite Germany. We play most games well at Docklands, get disproportionate access to interstate, jetlagged easybeats (!) and swell the coffers with the Ballarat connection, life in the AFL isn't too bad.
 
geoffjennings79 said:
We should be prioritising this in future draftees. Like this bloke:

View attachment 1650533
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Indeed. This was one of my favourites:

maxresdefault.jpg


Rick gave new meaning to the term body surfing.
 

Pure Footy: Stats men David King and Daniel Hoyne on the big trends after round 3​

The stats show Bailey Smith isn’t a centre bounce midfielder, but his numbers aren’t great on the outside, either. What has happened to the Dogs’ rising star? Watch Pure Footy.

Al Paton
April 5, 2023 - 5:08PM

David King and Daniel Hoyne take a look at the stats and trends from round three of the 2023 AFL season

When Bailey Smith kicked seven goals in two weeks to propel the Western Bulldogs into the 2021 grand final, the AFL had a new star on it hands.

Two seasons later, who is Bailey Smith?

That’s the question Champion Data analyst Daniel Hoyne posed on this week’s episode of Pure Footy, and he says the answer isn’t clear.

“Is he a centre bounce player – the numbers suggest probably not. Is he a ball-winning midfielder? Probably not,” Hoyne said.

“And is he ball user? So far this year he hasn’t been able to really generate anything of note.

“He’s going for the third-hardest kicks of any player in the competition this year. Only Christian Petracca and Stephen Coniglio are going for harder kicks than Bailey Smith has attempted this year, and he’s only been involved in seven scores in three games.

“That’s not the Bailey Smith we saw in 2021 when he kicked four goals on prelim final night.”

[PLAYERCARD]Bailey Smith[/PLAYERCARD]’s role is unclear at the Western Bulldogs. Picture: Michael Klein

Bailey Smith’s role is unclear at the Western Bulldogs. Picture: Michael Klein

Hoyne revealed numbers that show Tom Liberatore, Marcus Bontempelli, Jack Macrae and Adam Treloar all have a major positive impact when they attend centre bounces in terms of winning clearances and impacting the scoreboard.

But the same can’t be said for Smith.

“All four Bulldogs midfielders other than Bailey Smith have a significant positive differential in terms of clearance and scores when they go into a centre bounce. Bailey Smith is the only one that’s in the negative,” he said.

When Tom Liberatore has attended centre bounces over the past five seasons, he has improved the Bulldogs’ clearance differential by 100. For Marcus Bontempelli the figure is +68, Jack Macrae is at +52 and Adam Treloar at +50.

“The Bulldogs are minus 31 when Bailey Smith is at a centre bounce and they’ve been outscored 22 times more when Bailey Smith is actually in the centre bounce as well,” Hoyne said.

When it comes to winning the ball on the outside and using it to damage the opposition, Smith’s numbers aren’t flattering, either. He ranks 145th in the AFL for ball winning this year and 121st for ball use.

On another big episode, Hoyne and Fox Footy’s David King reveal how Ross Lyon has changed St Kilda, the familiar problem facing Essendon, Geelong’s depth issue and why Ed Richards should be in All-Australian contention.
 
NBates said:

Pure Footy: Stats men David King and Daniel Hoyne on the big trends after round 3​

The stats show Bailey Smith isn’t a centre bounce midfielder, but his numbers aren’t great on the outside, either. What has happened to the Dogs’ rising star? Watch Pure Footy.

Al Paton
April 5, 2023 - 5:08PM

David King and Daniel Hoyne take a look at the stats and trends from round three of the 2023 AFL season

When Bailey Smith kicked seven goals in two weeks to propel the Western Bulldogs into the 2021 grand final, the AFL had a new star on it hands.

Two seasons later, who is Bailey Smith?

That’s the question Champion Data analyst Daniel Hoyne posed on this week’s episode of Pure Footy, and he says the answer isn’t clear.

“Is he a centre bounce player – the numbers suggest probably not. Is he a ball-winning midfielder? Probably not,” Hoyne said.

“And is he ball user? So far this year he hasn’t been able to really generate anything of note.

“He’s going for the third-hardest kicks of any player in the competition this year. Only Christian Petracca and Stephen Coniglio are going for harder kicks than Bailey Smith has attempted this year, and he’s only been involved in seven scores in three games.

“That’s not the Bailey Smith we saw in 2021 when he kicked four goals on prelim final night.”

Bailey Smith’s role is unclear at the Western Bulldogs. Picture: Michael Klein

Bailey Smith’s role is unclear at the Western Bulldogs. Picture: Michael Klein

Hoyne revealed numbers that show Tom Liberatore, Marcus Bontempelli, Jack Macrae and Adam Treloar all have a major positive impact when they attend centre bounces in terms of winning clearances and impacting the scoreboard.

But the same can’t be said for Smith.

“All four Bulldogs midfielders other than Bailey Smith have a significant positive differential in terms of clearance and scores when they go into a centre bounce. Bailey Smith is the only one that’s in the negative,” he said.

When Tom Liberatore has attended centre bounces over the past five seasons, he has improved the Bulldogs’ clearance differential by 100. For Marcus Bontempelli the figure is +68, Jack Macrae is at +52 and Adam Treloar at +50.

“The Bulldogs are minus 31 when Bailey Smith is at a centre bounce and they’ve been outscored 22 times more when Bailey Smith is actually in the centre bounce as well,” Hoyne said.

When it comes to winning the ball on the outside and using it to damage the opposition, Smith’s numbers aren’t flattering, either. He ranks 145th in the AFL for ball winning this year and 121st for ball use.

On another big episode, Hoyne and Fox Footy’s David King reveal how Ross Lyon has changed St Kilda, the familiar problem facing Essendon, Geelong’s depth issue and why Ed Richards should be in All-Australian contention.
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Timely questions. They back up the eye test don't they?

I don't know what the solution is but, looking on the positive side, it means there's some huge upside in our midfield if they/Bailey can crack this problem.
 
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D Mitchell said:
Such cynicism from one so young. Pre admission of expansion clubs, indeed, during the process, clubs like ours were broke, surviving on VFL dividends. Had the VFL gone isolationist, we'd have disappeared. For all the apparent inequities, we've done well out of AFL revenue chasing. Using the EU as an analogy, we started out as Ireland/Greece, benefitted from motorways and flash new farmhouses, now no longer a member of PIGS, getting closer to pre Brexit UK, not yet quite Germany. We play most games well at Docklands, get disproportionate access to interstate, jetlagged easybeats (!) and swell the coffers with the Ballarat connection, life in the AFL isn't too bad.
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Naah, can't agree. I can't accept our also-ran status. Mediocrity. We shouldn't be here just to make up the numbers.

But thanks for buttering me up with the "so young" tag.
 
NBates said:
Hoyne revealed numbers that show Tom Liberatore, Marcus Bontempelli , Jack Macrae and Adam Treloar all have a major positive impact when they attend centre bounces in terms of winning clearances and impacting the scoreboard.

But the same can’t be said for Smith.

“All four Bulldogs midfielders other than Bailey Smith have a significant positive differential in terms of clearance and scores when they go into a centre bounce. Bailey Smith is the only one that’s in the negative,” he said.
Click to expand...
Adam Treloar: 30yo, 214 games
Marcus Bontempelli: 27yo, 196 games
Jack Macrae: 28yo, 211 games
Tom Liberatore: 30yo, 198 games



Bailey Smith: 22yo, 87 games.

Come off it, Daniel.
 
Dannnnnnnnnn said:
Adam Treloar: 30yo, 214 games
Marcus Bontempelli: 27yo, 196 games
Jack Macrae: 28yo, 211 games
Tom Liberatore: 30yo, 198 games



Bailey Smith: 22yo, 87 games.

Come off it, Daniel.
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No I think they are reasonable questions. He has regressed since his brilliant form of early 2022. For the first 10 rounds before his dual suspensions last year he was clearly our best player. He had 9 Brownlow votes from 9 games. He got only 1 vote after that. We haven't seen him light up a game like he did in the 2021 finals either. There's barely a stat in 2023 that is up with his 2022 stats.

While a few like Petracca take a little longer to become proven stars, most top 10 drafted midfielders show what they'll become pretty early. So 22 years old (his fifth season) is not too young to be expecting more than we're seeing right now, especially as he's shown quite a bit more in the past. He's still racking up reasonable disposals but there's no hurt in them.
 
dogwatch said:
No I think they are reasonable questions. He has regressed since his brilliant form of early 2022. For the first 10 rounds before his dual suspensions last year he was clearly our best player. He had 9 Brownlow votes from 9 games. He got only 1 vote after that. We haven't seen him light up a game like he did in the 2021 finals either. There's barely a stat in 2023 that is up with his 2022 stats.

While a few like Petracca take a little longer to become proven stars, most top 10 drafted midfielders show what they'll become pretty early. So 22 years old (his fifth season) is not too young to be expecting more than we're seeing right now, especially as he's shown quite a bit more in the past. He's still racking up reasonable disposals but there's no hurt in them.
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There is a difference, though, between questioning the regression in his form and feigning surprise that he is not performing at the level of four All Australian mids. I found that particular argument to be puzzling and a very poor - if not misleading - use of stats.

There's no doubt that Smith's level has dropped. But we also see him (1) juggling more roles than he previously did; (2) I suspect covering much more ground over the course of a game; and (3) dealing with significantly more attention from opposition players and coaches. A player continuing the kind of form he showed in his first two years is the exception rather than the rule for exactly those reasons.

We need more from him, sure, but I don't think you need to think too hard to consider why he might not be matching his peers.
 

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dogwatch said:
No I think they are reasonable questions. He has regressed since his brilliant form of early 2022. For the first 10 rounds before his dual suspensions last year he was clearly our best player. He had 9 Brownlow votes from 9 games. He got only 1 vote after that. We haven't seen him light up a game like he did in the 2021 finals either. There's barely a stat in 2023 that is up with his 2022 stats.

While a few like Petracca take a little longer to become proven stars, most top 10 drafted midfielders show what they'll become pretty early. So 22 years old (his fifth season) is not too young to be expecting more than we're seeing right now, especially as he's shown quite a bit more in the past. He's still racking up reasonable disposals but there's no hurt in them.
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That was only 10 games ago when as you said he was our best performed player, and he’s 22 - usually these things aren’t linear. He’s definitely going through a lean patch but can we judge him too harshly when every single player in the 22 has regressed except maybe Libba and English?

I mean people were calling for 4? Time AA Macrae to be dropped last week.

This teams a mess let’s not make big calls about a young player struggling in it currently, was interesting to read that he bites off the 3rd hardest kicks in the AFL - probably says a lot about the options our system presents him and makes a bit more sense out of his issues by foot that get brought up a lotttt
 
Bailey Smith has regressed. The whole world can see it. It doesn't mean that the sky is falling or that he has no future as an AFL footballer. It's noteworthy and has been noted.
 
Iamspock said:
Especially after you've scrubbed them out with a Sharpie after the first to rounds 😄
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My misses said leave it on, at least here in Central Vic they like it more than the Magpies one we had on. She is Collingwood me Dogs. Dogs here, "go doggies" previously "one eyed are ya"
 
ScragCity said:
Bailey Smith has regressed. The whole world can see it. It doesn't mean that the sky is falling or that he has no future as an AFL footballer. It's noteworthy and has been noted.
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He hasn't regressed at all.
Regress is a word that's used on Bigfooty far more than any other setting the world over, it seems.

If a young player isn't playing as well it doesn't mean their development or talent has diminished.

Ben Simmons has regessed. Bailey Smith has had a lower output start to the year.
 
In Repair said:
www.theage.com.au

Son of SOD: Dual-sport young gun signs for Western Bulldogs

The Western Bulldogs have signed James O’Donnell, the son of former Australian cricketer Simon O’Donnell, as a convert from cricket.
www.theage.com.au www.theage.com.au

Welcome to the Club James O’Donnel
Click to expand...

The Western Bulldogs have signed James O'Donnell, the son of former Australian cricketer Simon O'Donnell, as a convert from cricket.The Bulldogs have signed O'Donnell, who has been playing Premier Cricket for Essendon, as a category B rookie - the same rule that Geelong used to recruit Mark Blicavs from athletics and Collingwood deployed to sign American Mason Cox.

O'Donnell's father Simon, who is also a well-known media personality, played football for St Kilda, where his father Kevin also played in the 1940s, making James a prospective third generation of the family to play the game at the top level.

O'Donnell is an all-rounder at Premier Cricket level, but has a football pedigree, having played for Victoria in the under 12s, alongside North Melbourne?s Will Phillips and Bulldog Luke Cleary. He concentrated mainly on cricket at Xavier College.


O'Donnell, 21, had a late growth spurt at 18-19 years of age, according to club sources, and is 197 centimetres - making him a potential key-position prospect, although the Bulldogs are open-minded about what positions he might fill. He had been a midfield-sized player when he last played the game.
The Bulldogs' expectation is that he could start playing in defence, where it is easier to learn the game. He has not played football since his latter school days.
O'Donnell tested strongly for athletic traits when assessed by the Bulldogs, showing good speed and endurance.
O'Donnell will join training at the Bulldogs on Friday.

The Bulldogs found O?Donnell via the club?s head of high-performance Mat Inness, who is involved at Essendon Cricket Club. They do not expect O'Donnell to play immediately and will give him time to adjust to the game.
Click to expand...
 
Keath was a pretty successful cricket to afl convert although he had been offered a pre contract by Gold Coast before they came in so he did have exposed form.

I don't think that Power would waste resources for no reason if he didn't think that O'Donnell had elite traits that would transfer to AFL.
 

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What They're Saying - The Bulldogs Media Thread - Part 4

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