- Mar 23, 2007
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Given the Blues at one stage were keen on Cloke, what will be done with all the extra salary cap space they musct have?
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What's going on with Carlton's list
- Thread starter forwardflanker
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Axing Bower, Thornton & Russell would of freed up some extra cabbage to pay Cloke if he wanted to switch but there will probably be some contract rewrites now with some front-loading to make up the shortfall I'd reckon.
Kreuz Control
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Your right Vadge, they have, and should be congratulated.
My reply was regarding the stupidity of your last post, especially when Collingwood players have been involved in more off field issues, surly even you can understand that.
- Oct 16, 2008
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You were willing to give Cloke more than he settled for at Collingwood.
Money can't be used as an excuse for not landing anyone this trade period.
well, hamstrung with some of the contracts on the list means we didn't have room to move unless we wanted to delist and probably pay out someones contract to make room for a cloke.
we finished 5th in 2011 with supposedly no talls in the forward line. maybe we got lucky then, but either way a few supporters will be hoping it's the injured players (no doubt mentioned numerously already in this thread - and there are others apart from waite) who come back to fill the holes. i daresay malthouse will be hoping to get a lot more out of the list next season, maybe even tweaking the existing personnel will get some results that trading can't.
we finished 5th in 2011 with supposedly no talls in the forward line. maybe we got lucky then, but either way a few supporters will be hoping it's the injured players (no doubt mentioned numerously already in this thread - and there are others apart from waite) who come back to fill the holes. i daresay malthouse will be hoping to get a lot more out of the list next season, maybe even tweaking the existing personnel will get some results that trading can't.
Cloke was never going anywhere so his 'availability' as it were was pretty much a myth. I don't doubt enquires were made by more than just us when talks were supposedly at an impasse but Sticks, Swan and every other mouth piece at Carlton maintained all along that they didn't think Cloke would leave.
Cloke's old man most likely fuelled the fire through the 'gotta be seen to be in the know' hungry media to put pressure on Collingwood to come to the party.
Cloke was never a realistic option to come to Carlton and neither was Tippett. Caddy picked Geelong and from all reports Dawes wasn't wanted as he was just going to be more of what we already have.
The only guy who was a chance was Lynch so we've hardly closed any window on missing out on that one.
Carlton aren't gonna win a premiership with their current side.
forwardflanker
Cancelled
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- #359
I think most people would agree with this statement. Perhaps the Blues aren't recruiting because they have finally decided to take a long term approach rather than the quick fixes of the past. This would be sending a bit of a mixed message though, in that what is the point of recruiting a guy like Malthouse if your planning for the future. I think most people thought when he was appointing that he would be out by 3-4 years. Certainly I doubt anyone and especially the Carlton board would be considering a long term project in the mould of his spell at Collingwood. It doesn't seem like there's much leadership at board level at Carlton these days.
Apart from the bolded bit you'd be incorrect.
Malthouse will be expecting fairly quick results and so will the club. Now depending on your point of view you could make an argument that Mick's ego is getting ahead of itself and it wont happen with the current list.
Or you could also argue that he's just the guy for the job and will whip the current list, give or take a couple of players perhaps, into shape and become contenders.
No point getting ahead of ourselves and predicting a result just yet though.
DaveyTrainxpress
Team Captain
Carton's best 22 is good and can go close in September, they're fast and have great skills. However, your depth is shocking and showed this season. I can't understand why you weren't more active in trade week/free agency...you clearly need a big forward. Waite is good but can't get on the park and is nearing the end of his career so who steps up?
Carlton's list manager said they were happy with their list so wouldn't make changes. I found that comment shocking to hear as we found out this year that you don't have much after you get a few injuries. I can't understand why you wouldn't fill your holes while your premiership window is open. I'd be pissed off if I were a blues fan....
Carlton's list manager said they were happy with their list so wouldn't make changes. I found that comment shocking to hear as we found out this year that you don't have much after you get a few injuries. I can't understand why you wouldn't fill your holes while your premiership window is open. I'd be pissed off if I were a blues fan....
Sidebottom2Beams
Premiership Player
As a 15 year old lol.
Gone Critical
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I think MM will be planning to go a similar way he went at Collingwood and WCE. I am sure he feels he has a reasonable list now he wants to put his system in place. That means over the next year or two getting his assistant coaches, recruiters, development coaches andfitness staff operating from his page. It's not going to be a recruiting quick fix in his 1st year.
In much the same way as he would say Collingwood was too reliant on Buckley the player his mantra is also the club should not be too reliant on the head coach. He always said that the systems should be in place at any club that should continue on no matter who the head coach is. By his system Nathan Buckley , if competent, should be able to step in at Collingwood without major upheaval because the club should have systems in place to ensure there wasn't undue reliance on one person.
Geelongs transition of Thompson to Scott would be the perfect illustration of tthis process at work. Geelong has great development, recruiting and coaching structure that allows smooth transition. Malthouse is a very good head coach and developer of a stong culture. Carlton has lacked modern systems for a long time now as I believe thay got bogged down in the old VFL systems and have had trouble transitioning to modern AFL requirements.
MM doesn't mean instant flags, a lot needs to go right for that to happen at any club. My reckoning is that their current list may ultimately just fall short of a flag but that's just specualtion. MM's real role at Carlton may be to finish the transition of Carlton back to a stong club with good culture. They need to shed their past as Collingwood had to if they want to become something like the clubs MM left at Collingwood and WCE whan he departed.
If I wanted to be a little snide Carlton have looked like Collingwood lite for a few years now as they try to transition out of their dark era. Micks objective will be to make them Carlton again
Me, much as I love the man, I hope he fails miserably
In much the same way as he would say Collingwood was too reliant on Buckley the player his mantra is also the club should not be too reliant on the head coach. He always said that the systems should be in place at any club that should continue on no matter who the head coach is. By his system Nathan Buckley , if competent, should be able to step in at Collingwood without major upheaval because the club should have systems in place to ensure there wasn't undue reliance on one person.
Geelongs transition of Thompson to Scott would be the perfect illustration of tthis process at work. Geelong has great development, recruiting and coaching structure that allows smooth transition. Malthouse is a very good head coach and developer of a stong culture. Carlton has lacked modern systems for a long time now as I believe thay got bogged down in the old VFL systems and have had trouble transitioning to modern AFL requirements.
MM doesn't mean instant flags, a lot needs to go right for that to happen at any club. My reckoning is that their current list may ultimately just fall short of a flag but that's just specualtion. MM's real role at Carlton may be to finish the transition of Carlton back to a stong club with good culture. They need to shed their past as Collingwood had to if they want to become something like the clubs MM left at Collingwood and WCE whan he departed.
If I wanted to be a little snide Carlton have looked like Collingwood lite for a few years now as they try to transition out of their dark era. Micks objective will be to make them Carlton again
Me, much as I love the man, I hope he fails miserably
I think this it is just Micks style. He is not going to make large sweeping rash decisions. He may next year once he fully understands players capabilities. The lack of list clean out may hold them back a little, but that is part of the cost of transitioning in any new coach. The other extreme is someone like Vossy coming in & trading like his life depended on it & screwing the list all together. Both ways can be damaging and probably want a better balance, but Micks way is less risk (in a lot of what he does) - he would prefer to wait & see.
If Ratten was their I am sure he would have made some bigger calls as his opinions would have well & truly been formed on players who just didn't perform. Mick will give those guys, that probably should go, a reprieve & back them in.
He will also be looking at bigger issues, like the culture he wants to implement & teaching them how he wants to play. The cattle he has to play with is somewhat secondary to that. Once that is fixed he will focus on his cattle & who is able to play the way he wants.
If Ratten was their I am sure he would have made some bigger calls as his opinions would have well & truly been formed on players who just didn't perform. Mick will give those guys, that probably should go, a reprieve & back them in.
He will also be looking at bigger issues, like the culture he wants to implement & teaching them how he wants to play. The cattle he has to play with is somewhat secondary to that. Once that is fixed he will focus on his cattle & who is able to play the way he wants.
I wouldn't say our depth is shocking but the development of our depth has been slow. Ratten tended to go to the same old players when needed.
It was only after we'd racked up so many injuries this year that he had to play the likes of Casboult who'd been on the list for awhile and Bell who's a rookie.
For mine the biggest indictment on our list is it's mental softness. After the likes of Carrazzo, Laidler, Waite and Murphy went down performances became very inconsistent. I got the sense that it became all too hard as a playing group to step up and plug the gaps week in week out.
Having said that you take Cloke, Pendlebury, Harry and Beams out of Collingwood for example and it gets a lot tougher very quickly.
With regard to this month so far re trading etc have a look at my post number 361 above. Realistically we were only a chance with Lynch of all the players that were purportedly linked to Carlton.
and
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This is the thing most people from other clubs dont understand. Yes we had a lot of our senior players go down with injuries, but we also had significant injuries to our depth players. Players like Casboult, Mitchell, White, Davies, Rowe all 5 basically didnt play a game till after half way into the season. The biggest propblem for calrotn was our KP depth was sorely tested through injury.
Our midfield depth was tested a little but mclean stepped up, ellard/curnow while not having their best seasons are good replacements.
We did introduce some kids who looked likely. Bell, Casboult, McInnes, Bootsma, Frazer, Mitchell all debuted and id say McInnes, Bell and Casboult really showed some good signs. But then again injury strikes and we lose McInnes for a year with a knee.
- Sep 26, 2012
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Well when Daisy wants to be reunited with Mick next year when he becomes a FA, we will have Clokes money sitting waiting for Daisy.
forwardflanker
Cancelled
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Doubt Daisy will be going to Carlton next year after reading the excerpts from MM's book the other day
It's more likely that the extra "cash" was just a fallacy. Carlton are paying way too much for their under-performing number 1 draft picks. Poor recruitment and management.
The real fallacy here is your post. You, like the rest of us would have no idea how much our number 1 draft picks are being paid.
And as to under performing, I doubt you could justify an argument that Murphy has underperformed or Kreuzer for that matter, considering he's had a knee recon and spent this season having it drained regularly.
You could mount an argument against Gibbs based around the standard 'he's a number 1 draft pick so he has to be a star' cliche which could be countered with 'he's not been played in the position he's best suited to'.
The only part of your post that may have any merit depending on your point of view would be the reference to poor management, Primarily around allowing Kreuzer to continue to play this year (but then he wouldn't be an orphan by playing with an injury would he?) and Gibbs in terms of where he should be played.
And you're just an idiot.
Unfortunately for Carlton fans... there is a lot of truth to my post. Gibbs is on an inflated rate as Carlton were spooked by the expansion clubs.
forwardflanker
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I'm suprised Carlton didn't put Gibbs up for trade tbh. It can't be good for team moral seeing him getting a game every week just because he's a number 1 draft pick. Very good chance Malthouse will drop him unless he dramatically increases his output and learns to put his head over the ball.
I always wonder why Jack Watts cops so much flak on this board when Bryce Gibbs is several years older and about as bad. If anything Watts deserves less criticism because he is a tall and they take time. Gibbs has had more than enough time to prove that he is up to the standard yet to date has failed. The fact he doesn't even get half the criticism Watts gets is just bizarre imo.
I always wonder why Jack Watts cops so much flak on this board when Bryce Gibbs is several years older and about as bad. If anything Watts deserves less criticism because he is a tall and they take time. Gibbs has had more than enough time to prove that he is up to the standard yet to date has failed. The fact he doesn't even get half the criticism Watts gets is just bizarre imo.
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