Who do we target in this years draft?

[Jimbo7]

Standing vertical jump (cm)

1. James Craig 76
2. Sam Shaw 75
=3. Tom Hill 70
=3. Aaron Black 70
=3. Andrew Hooper 70
6. Lewis Jetta 69
=7. Ayden Kennedy 69
=7. Kane Lucas 67
=8. John Butcher 66
=8. Sam Reid 66

note: at the SA State Screening Daniel Webb from West
Adelaide FC recorded an 81cm vertical jump and a 102cm running vertical jump.

At 196cm and with a freak jump Webby can ruck if needed.
​

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Standing vertical jump (cm)

1. James Craig 76
2. Sam Shaw 75
=3. Tom Hill 70
=3. Aaron Black 70
=3. Andrew Hooper 70
6. Lewis Jetta 69
=7. Ayden Kennedy 69
=7. Kane Lucas 67
=8. John Butcher 66
=8. Sam Reid 66

note: at the SA State Screening Daniel Webb from West
Adelaide FC recorded an 81cm vertical jump and a 102cm running vertical jump.

At 196cm and with a freak jump Webby can ruck if needed.
​

A freaky jump is one thing but when Sandilands blocks his jump and he is left 15cm shorter he is in big trouble.

 

[Jimbo7]

Dont think Webb is the only short ruckman standing next to Sandilands.

 

[Schulzenfest]

And you can just as easily point to Kreuzer 1, Naitanui 2, Leuenberger 4, Clark 9 as early quality ruck picks. Even Cam Wood who Port have been linked to, would cost a first round pick in a trade and he's only played 4 games this year (admittedly injured early).

First off, the jury's still out on Leuenberger and Naitanui and Clark wasn't even drafted as a ruckman. Kind of proves my point.

Plus look at Josh Fraser. There hasn't been a worse No. 1 pick than him since.

Secondly, look at the best midfielders in the AFL right now. GAJ, father son (so not applicable). Judd, pick 3. Hodge, pick 1. Hayes, pick 7. Bartel, pick 8. Cooney, pick 1. Gibbs & Murphy, pick 1. Selwood, pick 7. NDS, pick 12. Goddard, pick 1. The only truly quality midfielders I can think of who didn't go early in recent years are Sam Mitchell (third round) Dane Swan (4th round), Sewell (rookie list), Boyd (rookie list) and Michael Barlow (rookie list. and who knows whether he'll back it up?). Conversely, the two best ruckman in the AFL (Cox and Sandilands) are undisputably the two best rucks in the AFL right now. Shane Mumford and Mark Jamar have both had a few A-A calls, and they were rookies. Darren Jolly was a rookie. Dean Brogan was a rookie. If you look at the percentages of quality rookie or late pick ruckman compared to early picks, and then looked at the same with midfielders, the difference would be huge. Rucks are a crap-shoot.

 

[Schulzenfest]

For every dud first round ruck, theres an AA first round ruck.

And for every AA first round ruck, there's an AA ruck who came off the rookie list. And for every dud first round midfielder, there's probably 2 or 3 AA midfielders.

 

[FishingRick04]

A freaky jump is one thing but when Sandilands blocks his jump and he is left 15cm shorter he is in big trouble.

I thought that was illegal, hence why Broge's gives away so many free's

 

[Macca19]

And for every AA first round ruck, there's an AA ruck who came off the rookie list. And for every dud first round midfielder, there's probably 2 or 3 AA midfielders.

And for every AA rookie list ruck theres about 20 rookie ruck duds. We could play this all day.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

And for every AA rookie list ruck theres about 20 rookie ruck duds. We could play this all day.

True but there have been plenty of sides who have done well with an ordinary ruck division and a gun midfield but I cant think of one that has had a gun ruck and an ordinary midfield.

Not doing a Grant Thomas and saying that rucks dont matter, just saying that mids matter more.

 

[FishingRick04]

True but there have been plenty of sides who have done well with an ordinary ruck division and a gun midfield but I cant think of one that has had a gun ruck and an ordinary midfield.

I can't remember a Port side without a dominant ruckman it's not in my philosphy now to have a team based on crappy ruck division, it makes me think of Collingwood.

Weak ruck is NOT Port Adelaide.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

I can't remember a Port side without a dominant ruckman it's not in my philosphy now to have a team based on crappy ruck division, it makes me think of Collingwood.

Weak ruck is NOT Port Adelaide.

What about a weak midfield?

 

[FishingRick04]

What about a weak midfield?

No but our midfield shouldn't be as piss weak as it is!

 

[Black 18]

No but our midfield shouldn't be as piss weak as it is!

But it is.

 

[Schulzenfest]

And for every AA rookie list ruck theres about 20 rookie ruck duds. We could play this all day.

Same with midfielders. I'm not saying it's perfect, I'm saying we should play the percentages.

I've thought of a better way to illustrate my point. Let's go through the best ruck on every team's list and then the best 2 pure midfielders and see where they were drafted. I'll leave father-sons out.

Rucks:
Adelaide: Maric (pick 40)
Brisbane: Clark (pick 9, but wasn't even drafted as a ruckman)
Carlton: Kreuzer (pick 1)
Collingwood: Jolly (rookie list)
Essendon: Hille (pick 50)
Freo: Sandilands (rookie list)
Geelong: Ottens (pick 2)
Hawthorn: Taylor (rookie list)
Melbourne: Jamar (rookie list)
North: McIntosh (pick 9)
Port: Brogan (rookie list)
Richmond: Graham (rookie list)
St. Kilda: Gardiner (pick 1)
Sydney: Mumford (rookie list)
West Coast: Cox (rookie list)
Western Bulldogs: Hudson (pick 58)

Mids:
Adelaide: Vince (pick 32) and Thompson (pick 16)
Brisbane: Black (pick 31) and Power (pick 5)
Carlton: Judd (pick 3) and Murphy/Gibbs (pick 1)
Collingwood: Swan (pick 58) and Pendlebury (pick 5)
Essendon: Stanton (pick 13) and McVeigh (pick 9)
Fremantle: Barlow (rookie list) and Hasleby (pick 2)
Geelong: Bartel (pick 8) and Selwood (pick 7)
Hawthorn: Hodge (pick 1) and Mitchell (pick 35)
Melbourne: Sylvia (pick 3) and Davey (rookie list)
North: Harvey (pick 46) and Wells (pick 2)
Port: Boak (pick 5) and ... Kornes? (pick 20)
Richmond: Deledio (pick 1) and Cotchin (pick 2)
St. Kilda: Goddard (pick 1) and Hayes (pick 11)
Sydney: McVeigh (pick 5) and Kirk (rookie list)
West Coast: Kerr (pick 18) and Selwood (pick 53)
Western Bulldogs: Cooney (pick 1) and Boyd (rookie list)

As you can see, there's a far bigger percentage of quality early picks compared to quality late picks in the midfielder section, and a far bigger percentage of rookie listers turning into guns in the rucks than the mids.

Also, what ET said.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

I think Macca and I both think that a top notch mid would be very handy with our first pick, but we both also think that a) recruiters are good at spotting top ruck picks these days, and b) Lycett is a huge talent and we wouldn't complain if he was there and we took him. Personally I think he'll be gone by our first pick anyway.

Clark was drafted as a forward/ruckman and those guys are more likely to turn out ruck than forward anyway. Volleyballer seals it . Kreuzer's bio refers to him as a ruck/forward too.

See Burgatron 05

A tall, agile, strong-marking forward/ruckman, Clark was a joint-winner of the Sheehan Medal in the 2002 NAB AFL under 16s championships. He was also a promising volleyballer.

See Burgatron 05

 

[Schulzenfest]

Fair enough then, I was wrong. I'd only heard of him ever being referred to as a forward before last year, I thought he was just chucked in the deep end when Charman and Leuenberger went down.

I still stand by what I said though. If you disagree, that's your opinion and if my previous post didn't change it, then I don't think anything else I can do will so I won't try.

 

[Macca19]

True but there have been plenty of sides who have done well with an ordinary ruck division and a gun midfield but I cant think of one that has had a gun ruck and an ordinary midfield.

Not doing a Grant Thomas and saying that rucks dont matter, just saying that mids matter more.

Sure, we arent just talking about next year though. Lycett/Other ruck will take a few years to mature. We can pick mids with first round picks for the 3-4 years after and be in a better overall position. You can pick a ruck with a rookie, but theres no guarantees youve got the right one. You might get Brogan, or you might get Dabrowski. I just think its a good chance to get a very highly rated home grown Ruck whos of genuine ruck size (202cm, 95kg at the mo).

And I agree at the moment we have a weak midfield, but I think are ruck situation is in dire trouble and in need of major look into first.

 

[aneale]

Quality rucks are harder to get than quality mids, there are realistically 20 of them each draft but maybe only 5 decent rucks, and by decent I mean stand out.

If GC (and GWS) have any brains they would snap up anyone over 198cm with a modicum of talent given they have larger than normal list sizes, as they fail to materialise they can discard them when their list is trimmed each year.

We need them, you guys need them, Hawthorn and of course GC so you'd take Lycett without blinking if he was still available

 

[Schulzenfest]

Quality rucks are harder to get than quality mids, there are realistically 20 of them each draft but maybe only 5 decent rucks, and by decent I mean stand out.

But you need about 5 times as many quality mids as you do quality rucks on a list.

 

[aneale]

But you need about 5 times as many quality mids as you do quality rucks on a list.

yeah but they are still easier to get. It can take 3-4 ND's before you get a Shaun Rehn or Dean Cox type. Neither of whom went at the pointy end of the draft, but Clubs have a greater knowledge of identifiable talent these days, No one gets hidden anymore.

Given that the next two drafts are stuffed, you'd take them if available because any KPP size will be snapped up or taken with a pre-selection

On current ladder position

1 - GC
2 - GC
3 - GC
4 - Richmond
5 - GC
6 - Adelaide
7 - GC
8 - West Coast
9 - GC
10 - Melbourne
11 - GC
12 - Port

I doubt he'd slip to 6th, so we'd need to continue sucking and the Tige's would need to keep going for us to get a shot at him. I think we'd take him.

 

[Schulzenfest]

I hope you do. I'd rather have a top quality midfield prospect and cross the bridge of Lobbe and/or Redden not making the grade if we come to it than add another potential young ruck to our already reasonably sized list at the expense of the most important position on the ground, midfield.

 

[wapower]

Fair enough then, I was wrong. I'd only heard of him ever being referred to as a forward before last year, I thought he was just chucked in the deep end when Charman and Leuenberger went down.

I still stand by what I said though. If you disagree, that's your opinion and if my previous post didn't change it, then I don't think anything else I can do will so I won't try.

To be fair gopower the talls taken in the first round of the 2005 Draft and were in the Western Australian state side that year were Josh Kennedy (East Fremantle), Patrick Ryder (East Fremantle), Mitchell Clark (East Fremantle) and Max Bailey (West Perth). Just because he could play ruck doesn't mean he was playing ruck. I'm sure Brisbane people would be able to elaborate but from what I recall he was playing a key position and moved in to the ruck when injuries cruelled the Lions.

That's a fair collection of talls from the East Fremantle side. 3 picks in the first 9 choices.

 

[CrimsonRaven]

A gun mid with skills and line-breaking ability is needed badly, more-so than a ruck. However Lycett, if he slips to us, which I see and next to impossible, should be selected. Just seems like he could be special.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Fair enough then, I was wrong. I'd only heard of him ever being referred to as a forward before last year, I thought he was just chucked in the deep end when Charman and Leuenberger went down.

I still stand by what I said though. If you disagree, that's your opinion and if my previous post didn't change it, then I don't think anything else I can do will so I won't try.

I wasn't even arguing that point, I agree good ruckmen can come from anywhere. Tall guys mature at different rates. You've mentioned guys like Brogan, Sandilands and Cox - Matty Primus was delisted as a young player, had 2 years in the SANFL, and wound up the best ruckman in the AFL (created his own rule) before his knee injuries. Shane Mumford was a fat kid from Bunyip, taken late in a rookie draft (on Jason Davenport's recommendation).

I do think recruiting is good enough to spot the really good young rucks who can transfer that talent to senior football, and so my main point is that Lycett is one of those players. He's probably the only 'pure' ruckman I'd want to see us take early - and that's based on his sheer football ability. He's good enough to rove his own tap, take the ball, run through half forward and kick a goal.

 

[Black 18]

And I agree at the moment we have a weak midfield, but I think are ruck situation is in dire trouble and in need of major look into first.

So you hold little hope for Lobbe, Redden, Bass or possibly Webb? To be honest I don't rate many of them that highly at all. Webb I think has real talent but looks more like a KPP than ruck to me.

Anyway, that's 4 guys we are yet to see if time is kind to them in their footy endeavours. How many young mids have we running around developing? By mids I mean genuine mids, not guys that play as HBF'ers etc and might be able to run through the midfield at times, but genuine mids.

I think of Banner, then I draw a blank after that.

Also we have had Deluca,Giles, Minson plus the 4 who are looking shaky at this early stage and we haven't been able to indentify, or develop, any to become decent AFL players. So what makes you think we would do any better with Lycett?

I'm not against drafting a quality player no matter where he plays as I think we need quality just about everywhere. However, you're much more likely to draft quality targeting a mid (and we do need mids urgently) who are dominating at under age level, and throughout the U/18 championships, than you are with a ruckman.

The succes rate or drafting mids over ruckman that still have a long way to go with development is substantial. Any AFL recruiter will tell you excatly the same. You can be a lot more assured of getting something decent with a mid over nearly any other position. Especially a mid who is already clearly above the pack.

I just don't believe we are in any sort of position to hope with picks. We need to take the ones with the greatest chance of success.

Build the midfield with genuine mids IMO.

 

[Malibu#27]

I'd be looking at Carr retiring, rolling out Logan, and redefining the roll of Thomas to free up a midfield slot for a higher quality player.

This 'should' free up two spots on ball for better users of the ball. We need to recruit depth into this area. I'd be on the lookout for an attacking midfielder (the Shaun role) via trade and look top add to this area with our first pick also.

A ruckman needs to be brought in 23 - 25 I guess would be the age band I'd be looking at.

Assessments need to be made on our young talls - its wishful thinking to think Salter/Stewart/Webb would all come on. If one of these players bags a 7 goal haul in their career we have done well. Our KPP stocks sit heaviliy on the shoulders of Trengrove/Butcher.

I see no point looking to trade Pearce. I'd entertain nibbles for Kane (he may be best served right now in a team on the verge of finals campaigns - perhaps a collingwood or similar). I dont see that we can discuss Chaplin as a trade. Chad is fast becoming a liability - as an older player it would be fantastic if you could throw him in a back pocket or CHB and know he would get his job done, but his whole career has been based on unaccountable football and right now every other club knows how to burn him when he plays loose. I fear that he is cooked.

ultimately though - what we really need is the coach to reach the point where he believes we have the targets up forward that allow us to go straight and direct. Until that point is reached, we will continue to hold the ball up and look stale as we do now. We have some young talent, I'd like it unleashes and allow the young enthusiasm to infect the group.