Fixture Who finishes last in 2023?

[Roylion]

Fitzroy 1996 would smash the 2023 Hawks

Nah. Not a hope.

 

[Purple Suit]

West Coast is going through a rebuild, so they're not likely to be good. But they couldn't even finish last in a year where their injury was so bad that they had to use multiple top up players across several games that weren't even on their list. Significant improvement will come just from having a normal injury run.

North may improve a bit from better coaching. Or maybe not. Hawks are likely to be worse as they've cut experienced players. I think one of them will finish last.

West Coast have good old players and super young players who might be good. Both sets get a lot more injuries than normal so I don't think the injury run is going to change that much in the short term till the old guys retire and young guys develop AFL bodies (or never do and don't make it). Covid was only a big hit for a few weeks and the media dragged on the excuse for the entire season.

The natural progression of this age set is also going to take time. The extra year for the old players might offset any gains from the younger crop in the short term too. I think North are in a different scenario and each year the youth should improve more than they lose, while what the Hawks traded out what the youth would gain but I still think they are good for 6-8 wins.

I recon you are up to your eyeballs in the spoon next year.

 

[Saint]

A lot of experience/leadership has gone out the door but as Sam said your age doesn’t determine if you have leadership qualities ……. I think I will believe and have faith in Sam given what he has achieved in the game over an opinion by a BF poster that barracks for Port and has studied at both Oxford and Cambridge! Who do you barrack for on the Thames each year?

What exactly has Sam achieved as a coach? He was at West Coast when they won the flag, of which he might have had some bearing, but had only been there 2 years and they were already good before he arrived.

He's been midfield coach at Hawthorn for multiple years and they sacked a bunch of their midfielders at the end of this season including a Brownlow medallist because all the fans think they have the worst midfield in the league.

Are we supposed to give credit to Mitchell for the West Coast Flag, but not for the atrocious Hawthorn midfield?

I think West Coast will finish last, but if Mitchell's has achieved so much as a coach, why are the two teams he's been involved with in his short coaching career both near-favourites for the wooden spoon?

 

[the big lebowski]

I was speaking to an older, established AFL footballer on the weekend and he was saying how it’s an accepted fact in club land that clubs are looking to bottom out now in anticipation for the tassie team coming in.

I know it’s not a new theory but it was eye opening coming from a player (not that his team are doing this).

 

[RUNVS]

I was speaking to an older, established AFL footballer on the weekend and he was saying how it’s an accepted fact in club land that clubs are looking to bottom out now in anticipation for the tassie team coming in.

I know it’s not a new theory but it was eye opening coming from a player (not that his team are doing this).

I still wonder how the hell Tasmania is going to convince younger players to stay. I mean Gold Coast have enough trouble and they have the sun and the beach. Unless the 18 year old footballer likes rain forests what is going to keep them in Tasmania?

 

[the big lebowski]

I still wonder how the hell Tasmania is going to convince younger players to stay. I mean Gold Coast have enough trouble and they have the sun and the beach. Unless the 18 year old footballer likes rain forests what is going to keep them in Tasmania?

It might be harder than for most other clubs, but they have a few things going for them. The historic nature of it could help initially. I also think they will be competitive from the start. They’ll also get paid a bit more.

After that it will come down to smart drafting.

Some players will be loyal to any club that drafts them for a long time. Others might actually like the tassie lifestyle. If you’re into the outdoors, fishing and food it’s a great place.

If you’re into nightclubs and instagram models, not so much.

 

[Sky]

I still wonder how the hell Tasmania is going to convince younger players to stay. I mean Gold Coast have enough trouble and they have the sun and the beach. Unless the 18 year old footballer likes rain forests what is going to keep them in Tasmania?

i like both the beach and a rain forest. wouldn’t wanna be drafted anywhere except qld, tassie or nt personally

 

[RUNVS]

It might be harder than for most other clubs, but they have a few things going for them. The historic nature of it could help initially. I also think they will be competitive from the start. They’ll also get paid a bit more.

After that it will come down to smart drafting.

Some players will be loyal to any club that drafts them for a long time. Others might actually like the tassie lifestyle. If you’re into the outdoors, fishing and food it’s a great place.

If you’re into nightclubs and instagram models, not so much.

I am not so sure as despite all the concessions GWS and Gold Coast were nowhere near competitive for years after they joined the competition. I am not sure what drafting rules the AFL could bring in to ensure Tasmania will be competitive from day one.

 

[the big lebowski]

I am not so sure as despite all the concessions GWS and Gold Coast were nowhere near competitive for years after they joined the competition. I am not sure what drafting rules the AFL could bring in to ensure Tasmania will be competitive from day one.

I think getting way more journey men and established players.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Its hard to see how North get better this year.. West Coast are bad but should win enough games at home to not finish last.. Hawks could bottom out badly but think they have more to work with than North.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Fitzroy 1996 would smash the 2023 Hawks

Interesting you mention Fitzroy. Fitzroy in its "death throes" are often cited as the example of the worst possible team. In Fitzroy's ill-fated last 3 seasons, they won just 8 games.

In North's last 3 seasons, they have won only 9 games. For further comparison, Carlton at its spoon winning, draft sanctioned worst, won 11 games in 3 years. Melbourne at its lowest ebb (during the Neeld/'186' era) won 10 games in 3 years. GWS as a new team full of teenagers won 9 games in 3 years.

In Fitzroy's last 4 years, they won a total of 18 games. That means North need 9 wins next year just to break even with Fitzroy's performances at their death (they need 8 wins to break even with Melbourne at their worst, 11 wins to break even with GWS and 13 wins to break even with the worst of Carlton).

I think sometimes (including in this thread) it is underestimated just how bad North have been in the last 3 years. They are one of the worst performed teams we have ever seen. They may turn it around in 2023 (and certainly have some ingredients to do so) but they are coming from a long, long way back. Surprising to me they have so few votes in this thread (and less than half of my own team).

 

[Blackhawk42]

What exactly has Sam achieved as a coach? He was at West Coast when they won the flag, of which he might have had some bearing, but had only been there 2 years and they were already good before he arrived.

He's been midfield coach at Hawthorn for multiple years and they sacked a bunch of their midfielders at the end of this season including a Brownlow medallist because all the fans think they have the worst midfield in the league.

Are we supposed to give credit to Mitchell for the West Coast Flag, but not for the atrocious Hawthorn midfield?

I think West Coast will finish last, but if Mitchell's has achieved so much as a coach, why are the two teams he's been involved with in his short coaching career both near-favourites for the wooden spoon?

Why the Eagles ‘wouldn’t have won’ 2018 flag without Sam Mitchell

Why Eagles ‘wouldn’t have won’ flag without Mitchell - and what ‘best in 14 years’ gives Hawks

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[Rowan18]

West Coast have good old players and super young players who might be good. Both sets get a lot more injuries than normal so I don't think the injury run is going to change that much in the short term till the old guys retire and young guys develop AFL bodies (or never do and don't make it). Covid was only a big hit for a few weeks and the media dragged on the excuse for the entire season.

The natural progression of this age set is also going to take time. The extra year for the old players might offset any gains from the younger crop in the short term too. I think North are in a different scenario and each year the youth should improve more than they lose, while what the Hawks traded out what the youth would gain but I still think they are good for 6-8 wins.

I recon you are up to your eyeballs in the spoon next year.

I think you're overlooking the fact that injury and covid destroyed the pre-season of a bunch of players, so they never hit full fitness. That's not going to happen again.

Mind you, I've always been of the view if you are going to finish bottom 4, you might as well finish last. A wooden spoon wouldn't be the end of the world.

The last thing you want to do is bounce around between 9-14 for years, not playing finals but not getting good talent in. Freo and Saints both did this for years and have massive holes in their lists which probably won't be solved without another couple of bottom 4 finishes.

 

[hawkman]

What exactly has Sam achieved as a coach? He was at West Coast when they won the flag, of which he might have had some bearing, but had only been there 2 years and they were already good before he arrived.

He's been midfield coach at Hawthorn for multiple years and they sacked a bunch of their midfielders at the end of this season including a Brownlow medallist because all the fans think they have the worst midfield in the league.

Are we supposed to give credit to Mitchell for the West Coast Flag, but not for the atrocious Hawthorn midfield?

I think West Coast will finish last, but if Mitchell's has achieved so much as a coach, why are the two teams he's been involved with in his short coaching career both near-favourites for the wooden spoon?

So Mitchell is at fault for West Coast falling to the bottom 4 years after he left?

Mitchell was Box Hill coach in 2021 and coach in 2022. Hasn't been midfield coach since at least 2020.

 

[Drunkcat]

Hawthorn are good at tanking they want pick 1, so i think they will get the job done

 

[Saint]

Why the Eagles ‘wouldn’t have won’ 2018 flag without Sam Mitchell

Why Eagles ‘wouldn’t have won’ flag without Mitchell - and what ‘best in 14 years’ gives Hawks

www.foxsports.com.au

The same was said of Brendan McCartney at Geelong and Western Bulldogs as a great assistant and player development person, but he wasn't a great head coach.

So Mitchell is at fault for West Coast falling to the bottom 4 years after he left?

Mitchell was Box Hill coach in 2021 and coach in 2022. Hasn't been midfield coach since at least 2020.

I'm asking what he's actually achieved as a coach, when somebody said he'd achieved a lot. To me, he's nearly completely unproven and 2022 wasn't great. He had a list which was set up for making finals (wasn't rebuilding yet) and finished 8 and 14, 2 games behind the Gold Coast. To me, that's not a pass mark.

 

[hawkman]

The same was said of Brendan McCartney at Geelong and Western Bulldogs as a great assistant and player development person, but he wasn't a great head coach.



I'm asking what he's actually achieved as a coach, when somebody said he'd achieved a lot. To me, he's nearly completely unproven and 2022 wasn't great. He had a list which was set up for making finals (wasn't rebuilding yet) and finished 8 and 14, 2 games behind the Gold Coast. To me, that's not a pass mark.

We were one of the favourites for the spoon last year (favourites according to BF). There would have been a maximum of 1% of non Hawthorn supporters who thought we would make finals last year. I thought we could if absolutely everything went our way but that went out the window once McEvoy and Reeves were gone by round 5

 

[Blackhawk42]

To me, he's nearly completely unproven and 2022 wasn't great. He had a list which was set up for making finals (wasn't rebuilding yet) and finished 8 and 14, 2 games behind the Gold Coast. To me, that's not a pass mark.

I'm not sure how you've landed on this.

We were widely tipped to be wooden spooners throughout the entire media, were favorites for the spoon on this website and the bookies had us right in contention as well.

The narrative at the end of the season was that arguably we overachieved.

We won more more games under Mitchell in his first year playing kids than we did under Clarkson the previous year playing all our experienced players.

 

[the big lebowski]

I'm not sure how you've landed on this.

We were widely tipped to be wooden spooners throughout the entire media, were favorites for the spoon on this website and the bookies had us right in contention as well.

The narrative at the end of the season was that arguably we overachieved.

We won more more games under Mitchell in his first year playing kids than we did under Clarkson the previous year playing all our experienced players.

Well Sicily didn’t play in 2021, and won your best and fairest in 2022

Gunston contributed 0 goals in 2021 but 32 in 2022.

Newcombe was a bit part player for half a year in 2021, and came 2nd in your best and fairest in 2022.

Yet you finished on the same amount of points across both years.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Well Sicily didn’t play in 2021, and won your best and fairest in 2022

Gunston contributed 0 goals in 2021 but 32 in 2022.

Newcombe was a bit part player for half a year in 2021, and came 2nd in your best and fairest in 2022.

Yet you finished on the same amount of points across both years.

Clarkson played his best available 22 every week it was possible.

Sam Mitchell sent Liam Shiels, Daniel Howe and Kyle Hartigan to the VFL and O'Meara and Mitchell to the flanks in order to fast track the development of our kids.

The Newcombe comment is interesting too, because isn't it great signs for the future that players like he, Lewis and Moore looked like elite footballers under Mitchell?

 

[the big lebowski]

Clarkson played his best available 22 every week it was possible.

Sam Mitchell sent Liam Shiels, Daniel Howe and Kyle Hartigan to the VFL and O'Meara and Mitchell to the flanks in order to fast track the development of our kids.

The Newcombe comment is interesting too, because isn't it great signs for the future that players like he, Lewis and Moore looked like elite footballers under Mitchell?

For sure it’s a great sign for the future that Newcombe established himself as a gun. I’m simply saying that a few less games to some peripheral older players is worth less than getting back a best and fairest winner, gun forward and the arrival of a gun onballer -when comparing year on year results

 

[Blackhawk42]

For sure it’s a great sign for the future that Newcombe established himself as a gun. I’m simply saying that a few less games to some peripheral older players is worth less than getting back a best and fairest winner, gun forward and the arrival of a gun onballer -when comparing year on year results

Most Hawthorn supporters spent the entire off-season last year arguing that we weren't a wooden spoon contender due to the returns of Sicily and Gunston.

It appears it's all come full circle in 12 months, because suddenly we're wooden spoon favourites again and we should have performed far better in 2022 according to some posters.

 

[the big lebowski]

Most Hawthorn supporters spent the entire off-season last year arguing that we weren't a wooden spoon contender due to the returns of Sicily and Gunston.

It appears it's all come full circle in 12 months, because suddenly we're wooden spoon favourites again and we should have performed far better in 2022 according to some posters.

How many wins for the hawks in 2023 in your opinion?

 

[matey]

What exactly has Sam achieved as a coach? He was at West Coast when they won the flag, of which he might have had some bearing, but had only been there 2 years and they were already good before he arrived.

He's been midfield coach at Hawthorn for multiple years and they sacked a bunch of their midfielders at the end of this season including a Brownlow medallist because all the fans think they have the worst midfield in the league.

Are we supposed to give credit to Mitchell for the West Coast Flag, but not for the atrocious Hawthorn midfield?

I think West Coast will finish last, but if Mitchell's has achieved so much as a coach, why are the two teams he's been involved with in his short coaching career both near-favourites for the wooden spoon?

Need to revisit my original post ………. you do realise he has not only coached yeah!

 

[Blackhawk42]

How many wins for the hawks in 2023 in your opinion?

6-8.

With such a young side I think it's possible we have a few lossess worse than we suffered in 2022, however the natural development of the list plus the influence of older, wiser heads such as Breust, Sicily, Hardwick and Wingard will result in some solid wins along the way.