Who finishes last in 2024?

[Makeshift Park]

He's seen Corr play football.

What a perspicacious contribution.

 

[eth-dog]

What a perspicacious contribution.

It doesn't need elaborating on. He sucks.

 

[Makeshift Park]

It doesn't need elaborating on. He sucks.

Corr's got a higher 1v1 win rate than Frost or Blanck, and he uses the ball better than Frost.

He's no world beater, but on basically every metric he's around the same level as the two Hawthorn KPDs being discussed.

Try harder.

 

[Obeanie1]

North's experienced players who have left:
Ziebell - was serviceable at times last season, a couple of good games but also a complete liability at times with his ball use out of defense. Also isn't a good 1 v 1 defensive player so the defensive unit won't struggle as a result.
Goldstein - massive loss. this impact is the biggest concern.
Turner - contributed very little, easy to replace. struggled to get the ball or impact the scoreboard.
McKay - when he's playing well he's absolutely a defensive asset and Essendon do have a good player in their backline. last season for whatever reason he was poor.
Cunnington - barely played last season
Hall - didn't play much after the first half of the season, he tried hard but was soft and poor with the ball.

Goldstein is definitely a loss and McKay anywhere near his best is a loss but the natural improvement vs players that have left, or older players declining is much higher.

Losing McKay and Goldy will set them back at least two years in those positions.

The kids and existing players will not reach the same output for years.

And the other unproven tall defenders are just that.

All the gun mids North have drafted will not hold down the opposition's #1 forward nor will those kids win or even break even on the ruck.

The list is out of balance. Midfield could be the best in the comp in another 3 years. Defense and forward line have alot of holes to fill and talls to develop.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Miles better?

Your backline was better in 2023, but overall, Sicily is really the key difference maker between our medium defender stocks.

On proven form, Sheezel is a better player than any of the others you've listed.

If McKercher comes close to fulfilling his promise as half back, I don't foresee a massive discrepancy between the net quality of our young medium defenders.

The issue with our backline (outside of the dearth of KPD options) was the gameplan left it exposed this season. When Sicily was out it generally fell apart, however the year prior it was a strength of ours.

Hardwick is one of the best small defenders in the league. We also have Impey, CJ, Scrimshaw, Mitchell and Weddle.

Sheezel is brilliant. I've said elsewhere that he had the most impressive debut season that I've ever seen. Outside of him there is MacDonald, Bergman, Tucker, Dawson, Fisher, Goater (?)...

Bergman and Goater are promising players. McKercher is a midfielder who hasn't played a single game. Fisher has never played in the backline. Now moving Fisher and McKercher to the HBF could prove to be a master stoke (like Sheezel), and Bergman and Goater will likely continue to develop.

But if you look at those lists, our least experienced options in Mitchell and Weddle, who will also likely continue to develop, both outperformed the likes of Goater, Dawson, Bergman and Tucker (Weddle did at least. Quite even with Mitchell).

 

[Makeshift Park]

The issue with our backline (outside of the dearth of KPD options) was the gameplan left it exposed this season. When Sicily was out it generally fell apart, however the year prior it was a strength of ours.

Hardwick is one of the best small defenders in the league. We also have Impey, CJ, Scrimshaw, Mitchell and Weddle.

Sheezel is brilliant. I've said elsewhere that he had the most impressive debut season that I've ever seen. Outside of him there is MacDonald, Bergman, Tucker, Dawson, Fisher, Goater (?)...

Bergman and Goater are promising players. McKercher is a midfielder who hasn't played a single game. Fisher has never played in the backline. Now moving Fisher and McKercher to the HBF could prove to be a master stoke (like Sheezel), and Bergman and Goater will likely continue to develop.

But if you look at those lists, our least experienced options in Mitchell and Weddle, who will also likely continue to develop, both outperformed the likes of Goater, Dawson, Bergman and Tucker (Weddle did at least. Quite even with Mitchell).

Agree with much of that. I will point out that Fisher's best games last year were in the backline.

 

[SSSSSS]

Corr's got a higher 1v1 win rate than Frost or Blanck, and he uses the ball better than Frost.

He's no world beater, but on basically every metric he's around the same level as the two Hawthorn KPDs being discussed.

Try harder.

The best part about Frost and Blanck (whichever plays) is they enable Sicily.

Who is Corr enabling?

Therein lies the massive discrepancy between our lists.

Hawthorn has comparable KPD but vastly superior rebounding options. Sheezel is the pick of the lot but it falls off pretty sharply after.

If I had to rank a combined Hawthorn/North rebounding options it would be in this order;

1) Sheezel
2) Hardwick
3) CJ
4) Weddle
5) Impey
6/7) Fisher (? - at least based on his form at the Blues) or Scrimshaw
8) LMac
9) Insert any one of Mitchell/Goater/Tucker

We've conceded almost 600 less points over the last two seasons compared to North. Now you're without McKay and Logue for a significant chunk of time.

There are massive question marks over your defense.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Agree with much of that. I will point out that Fisher's best games last year were in the backline.

I stand corrected.

 

[TheUnicorn]

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Bottom 6 won't change too much except I reckon West Coast & North win a few more games.

I will put all my life savings on Freo and Gold Coast not finishing bottom 6 next season

St Kilda is a smokey for me if they get a poor run of injuries
The Kardinia Park advantage will probably save Geelong but I don't think they will improve at all next season.

 

[Anynameyouwish]

No, played half back flank in debut season.

Mark Viska on the other half back flank from memory.

Kane Viska could play a bit - just unfortunately a bit shorter than his dad.

 

[Anynameyouwish]

There is an argument that HBF is the most important position on the ground and with the right players it certainly can be. McLeod is one who really springs to mind (and that was nearly 30 years ago.)

People often use the term "hide at half back" when referring to players like Daicos or Sheezel but its a foolish thing to say really because so much drive and attack comes from that position.

In your 1997 GF side Goodwin and McLeod were both named on the HBF, can't remember where they started the actual game but who cares. Players who can win the ball in the middle or the back flank who can move and drive the ball into attack are really valuable imo. If they start out there and develop the habit of getting the ball there and driving it into the forward line then they'll do that during the rest of their careers even if the start at CBs.

I am a little perplexed by this statement.

When referencing Mcleod, Goodwin or recently Hodge, Burgoyne, Enright, Makie or the list of other half-blank flankers that could play in the midfield were not declared as 'hiding' as their sides were not screaming for midfield talent. Daicos has had the luxury of flanking it up as the Collingwood midfield has been up for contest.

North Melbourne have been miserable in the midfield. JHF and Wardlow both have gone into the North midfield as it is an obvious need.

Sheezel should have gone into the midfield. He was a high draft pick, fawned over by all and sundry at North, and yet would not go to where the game starts and chose to play halfback.

He should have forced his way into the midfield. He should have demanded he play in there. He should have tried to put the team success on his back (like George Wardlaw did). He chose not to. People don't talk about Wardlaw hiding on half back - because he didn't.

People refer to Sheezel hiding at half back because he did when North needed someone - anyone - in the middle with talent. Daicos is not required in the Collingwood midfield, so he was not hiding.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

I am a little perplexed by this statement.

When referencing Mcleod, Goodwin or recently Hodge, Burgoyne, Enright, Makie or the list of other half-blank flankers that could play in the midfield were not declared as 'hiding' as their sides were not screaming for midfield talent. Daicos has had the luxury of flanking it up as the Collingwood midfield has been up for contest.

North Melbourne have been miserable in the midfield. JHF and Wardlow both have gone into the North midfield as it is an obvious need.

Sheezel should have gone into the midfield. He was a high draft pick, fawned over by all and sundry at North, and yet would not go to where the game starts and chose to play halfback.

He should have forced his way into the midfield. He should have demanded he play in there. He should have tried to put the team success on his back (like George Wardlaw did). He chose not to. People don't talk about Wardlaw hiding on half back - because he didn't.

People refer to Sheezel hiding at half back because he did when North needed someone - anyone - in the middle with talent. Daicos is not required in the Collingwood midfield, so he was not hiding.

Christ. What are you on about?

A first year player telling one of the most decorated coaches ever where he's going to play himself?

Playing in a backline that was under siege essentially every game, and excelling whilst doing it, was a magnificent effort. Keeping in mind this was a first year player that had not played in that position for years. None of us here have ever seen a first year player do what Sheezel just did.

Sheezel shouldn't have gone anywhere bar where the coach wanted him to play.

 

[Makeshift Park]

I am a little perplexed by this statement.

When referencing Mcleod, Goodwin or recently Hodge, Burgoyne, Enright, Makie or the list of other half-blank flankers that could play in the midfield were not declared as 'hiding' as their sides were not screaming for midfield talent. Daicos has had the luxury of flanking it up as the Collingwood midfield has been up for contest.

North Melbourne have been miserable in the midfield. JHF and Wardlow both have gone into the North midfield as it is an obvious need.

Sheezel should have gone into the midfield. He was a high draft pick, fawned over by all and sundry at North, and yet would not go to where the game starts and chose to play halfback.

He should have forced his way into the midfield. He should have demanded he play in there. He should have tried to put the team success on his back (like George Wardlaw did). He chose not to. People don't talk about Wardlaw hiding on half back - because he didn't.

People refer to Sheezel hiding at half back because he did when North needed someone - anyone - in the middle with talent. Daicos is not required in the Collingwood midfield, so he was not hiding.

Ah yes, the player who produced one of the greatest debut seasons in recent history checks notes …didn’t actually contribute enough for his team.

West Coast need help in the midfield - maybe Oscar Allen should demand a spot in the starting midfield rotation?

Adelaide too. C’mon Tex, if you’re really such a great player, you need to be demanding midfield spots.

What a cooked argument.

 

[Anynameyouwish]

And lets just take a step back here as well - you're arguing with me for saying North would win between 2-4 games of the first 10 in response to a new account poster who was clearly trolling.

I believe North have two competitive games in the first 10 and think they will lose them both. You think they have 2-4 completive games (without you naming them) and think they could will all 4 and then declare I am trolling?

The first 10 games for North are hard for them. A few finalists from last year, and last years underperforming Freo and Geelong at Geelong should see them comfortably lose the first 5. The next five are slightly better with games against Hawthorn, Essendon and Gold Coast. The GC game is in the stifling Darwin humidity (after a trip to Tassie 14 days before hand) should see GC with a significant environmental advantage.

If North go 0-5 (and it is hard to make a case that they don't) and then 0-10 or 1-09 what incentive is there for them to play out the season trying to win each game? Why not just play all the kids, run the game plan as much as possible to try and get the team working, and send those who need surgery off for surgery?

0-5 into 1-9 does not provide a lot to work with.

The North kids will come on if they can keep them together. Clarkson has shown his hand at Hawthorn in the list build philosophy. But North are nowhere near it this year and we will all know when North think they are getting close as they'll recruit the key trades (the Gibson, Lake, MaEvoy equivalents) when the time comes.

That time is not 2024.

 

[Anynameyouwish]

Ah yes, the player who produced one of the greatest debut seasons in recent history checks notes …didn’t actually contribute enough for his team.

West Coast need help in the midfield - maybe Oscar Allen should demand a spot in the starting midfield rotation?

Adelaide too. C’mon Tex, if you’re really such a great player, you need to be demanding midfield spots.

What a cooked argument.

I'll go 'he' for chasey if Reid doesn't get into the Eagles midfield in game 1. Ginbey went into the Eagles midfield as a midfielder in his first year as they needed him.

Sam Walsh played midfield in his first year at Carlton when needed. As did Matt Rowell at Gold Coast.

Midfielders in struggling sides that want to play in the midfield will as that is where they are needed.

 

[Anynameyouwish]

Christ. What are you on about?

A first year player telling one of the most decorated coaches ever where he's going to play himself?

Playing in a backline that was under siege essentially every game, and excelling whilst doing it, was a magnificent effort. Keeping in mind this was a first year player that had not played in that position for years. None of us here have ever seen a first year player do what Sheezel just did.

Sheezel shouldn't have gone anywhere bar where the coach wanted him to play.

How often did Clarkson coach last year?

The backline was under siege because North couldn't win the midfield. I thought Daicos had a bigger impact in a better side.

I think all at North want a 30 touch Sheezel in the middle rather than halfback.

 

[SSSSSS]

How often did Clarkson coach last year?

The backline was under siege because North couldn't win the midfield. I thought Daicos had a bigger impact in a better side.

I think all at North want a 30 touch Sheezel in the middle rather than halfback.

I can't wait for Sheezel to play in the forward 50 instead of seagulling in the back 50.

Some of his deliveries inside 50 were elite.

 

[Foucault1989]

Agree with much of that. I will point out that Fisher's best games last year were in the backline.

Fisher got dropped because of some of the worst defensive efforts you'll ever see in defence. If you're banking on him to be a competent defender you're in for a major shock and disappointment. He has never been anything other than a flashy frontrunner who goes missing when the game is on the line.

I'm sorry to say but he's not a game changer. He'll have good games but you'll be so frustrated with his lack of consistent output and squibbing contests.

 

[Foucault1989]

Unless North's midfield dominate and reduce forward 50 entries, they're in trouble.

They'll be bottom 3 again. Need to draft some bloody talls!

 

[Judd2Sewell]

How often did Clarkson coach last year?

The backline was under siege because North couldn't win the midfield. I thought Daicos had a bigger impact in a better side.

I think all at North want a 30 touch Sheezel in the middle rather than halfback.

I can't get past you expecting a first year player to just walk into a club and tell the coaches where he's going to play. That will literally never happen. Anything else you say after that point is redundant.

 

[Caligo]

I say the rebuild has just commenced due to how many top 10 draft picks you have brought in.

Since 2019 (so 5 drafts) West Coast have brought in

Ginby
Reid

as top 10 selections.

Compare that to North

Phillips
Sheezel
Wardlaw
McKercher
Duursma

Tanking and dodgy compo will do that.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

This is not going to be a well received post, but I honestly believe North Melbourne underperformed last season (okay tanked) cause they wanted to cash in on the Ben McKay

32

Ben Mckay

Age

26

Ht

202cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.5

2star

K

3.7

1star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.7

4star

MG

77.2

1star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.5

2star

MG

88.5

2star

D

7.0

2star

K

3.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

67.8

1star

Free Agency pick and get other draft assistance goodies from the AFL


North got bloody unlucky against The Swans (umpiring infringement) at Docklands last season, but i also suspect they threw both games against Essendon last year, for reasons I stated above.

I think we will see a significantly improved North Melbourne in 2024 (with a kind run of injuries)

7-8 wins is not out of the question in my opinion.

 

[Caligo]

This is not going to be a well received post, but I honestly believe North Melbourne underperformed last season (okay tanked) cause they wanted to cash in on the Ben McKay Free Agency pick and get other draft assistance goodies from the AFL

Not false. Been saying it for months.

They haven't just been doing it for 1 year though.

 

[Bradkli]

This is not going to be a well received post, but I honestly believe North Melbourne underperformed last season (okay tanked) cause they wanted to cash in on the Ben McKay

32

Ben Mckay

Age

26

Ht

202cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.5

2star

K

3.7

1star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.7

4star

MG

77.2

1star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.5

2star

MG

88.5

2star

D

7.0

2star

K

3.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

67.8

1star

Free Agency pick and get other draft assistance goodies from the AFL


North got bloody unlucky against The Swans (umpiring infringement) at Docklands last season, but i also suspect they threw both games against Essendon last year, for reasons I stated above.

I think we will see a significantly improved North Melbourne in 2024 (with a kind run of injuries)

7-8 wins is not out of the question in my opinion.

If Clarkson can win 7-8 games with a side who’s backline is made up of the below, he should be knighted.

it doesn’t matter how good their midfield performs or how many goals larkey kicks. Larkey was simply incredible last season and they still came second last. Losing Goldstein and McKay is going to hurt them big time next season.

This backline will be conceding 15+ goals a week and 20+ against the better sides.

I think Sheezel will play more up the ground and forward next season.

McDonald Corr Pink
Fisher Cobden/Logue Bergman/Archer