Who is the best side in the comp on their day?

[vonn]

Their are more hawthorn supporters talking up their own list then neutrals.

 

[tazhawk]

Their are more hawthorn supporters talking up their own list then neutrals.

No shit Sherlock.

Footy supporters on an internet forum talking up their own team.

Whatever next.

 

[Scodog10]

This is very tricky to rate as there are no "great" sides around at the moment.

Collingwood are just like Sydney 2005. They are a "process".

Hawthorn, Bulldogs and StKilda all have glaring deficiencies.

Geelong are on the decline and Carlton shouldn't even be mentioned in this thread.

I consider percentage to be a pretty good indicator of how dominant a team is throughout the course of a season, Collingwood's in 2010 was 141.68.

That is the 3rd highest Collingwood have had since 1930, its better than all three years that Brisbane won there premierships, its also higher than WC in all three of there premiership years, larger than Carlton's when they went 20-2 in 1995 and higher than North Melbourne's best throughout the 90's, which as you'd know they were the dominant team.

To feature in 2 prelims and be premiers in 3 of the past four years tends to suggest Collingwood are more of a dominant team than a "process".

 

[Pigdog]

Collingwood.

Pains me to say it, but the footy they played in the 1st half against Geelong in the PF was as good a half I have seen, they were awesome.

 

[the distributer]

Collingwood.

Pains me to say it, but the footy they played in the 1st half against Geelong in the PF was as good a half I have seen, they were awesome.

correct, everyones still scared of hawthorn though, if they can manage to get 180 goals out of their 2 KPFs again and their opponants kick 9. 27 in the GF they might just be a chance.

 

[Murraj1966]

People put St Kilda out of the question because of the replay, but the Draw was the greater indication of where the sides sit when they're both running around the same pace.

The fitness was easily at different levels in the replay and it was obvious, I still think Collingwood are the team to beat overall, but St Kilda Geelong or the Hawks could beat them on their day with ease.

Now the Bulldogs, I can't say if they were playing at their best would even win against one of the best. The best I've seen from them was the 09 Prelim where they gave it a shake, but they still lost.

 

[the distributer]

People put St Kilda out of the question because of the replay, but the Draw was the greater indication of where the sides sit when they're both running around the same pace.

The fitness was easily at different levels in the replay and it was obvious, I still think Collingwood are the team to beat overall, but St Kilda Geelong or the Hawks could beat them on their day with ease.

Now the Bulldogs, I can't say if they were playing at their best would even win against one of the best. The best I've seen from them was the 09 Prelim where they gave it a shake, but they still lost.

We started celebrating a tad early in GF1, that can happen with very young teams, we almost paid the ultimate price, we didnt make the same mistake in GF2, the saints are clearly the team i fear the most though coming into 2011, big gap between the top 2 and 3rd IMO, im not trying to take anything away from your GF1 effort after HT, showed a ton of ticker.

ross is tinkering your game plan as we speak, chances are you'll be a better team come 2011, looking fwd to another pies saints GF next year.

 

[rose jam]

Hawks have got like 2 top liners and the rest are average - where the hell people getting 6-10 best from?

 

[Lockyer24]

Hawks best 2 are up there but the rest of their list down especially 6-22 are woeful, thus the mid table finishes the last 2 years.

 

[the distributer]

Hawks best 2 are up there but the rest of their list down especially 6-22 are woeful, thus the mid table finishes the last 2 years.

buddy and hodge, next best would struggle to make the top 50 IMO, brittle backline, above average midfield (nothing special though, on the slow side), great fwd line, shit ruck, middle of the road team, nothing more.

 

[AG]

Collingwood. Even spread wins.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

hawthorn were in a position to challenge the dogs for a spot in the top4 but their mediocrity shone through as they lost to port and then sydney.

they fell into the finale and were exposed by a free falling freo.

yet their supporters still actually think they are a legit contender?

Of course they are a legit contender just like 4 or 5 other clubs, and you know it as well as the next guy.
Any club with a forward line of Franklin and Roughead will always be dangerous, and with a midfield of Hodge, Mitchell, Burgoyne and Sewell, there's enough class to challenge every club in the comp.

The Freo game was deplorable, but so was St Kilda's second Grand Final....and I still think they're a contender(if they can curve the off-field influences) with the amount of top end talent they have.
It's not about the outcome of games in the seasons prior, it's about the list and what the scope is for success should all the ducks line up.
Surely as a Collingwood supporter you should realise this.

 

[Amber Guzzler]

People put St Kilda out of the question because of the replay, but the Draw was the greater indication of where the sides sit when they're both running around the same pace.

The fitness was easily at different levels in the replay and it was obvious, I still think Collingwood are the team to beat overall, but St Kilda Geelong or the Hawks could beat them on their day with ease.

Now the Bulldogs, I can't say if they were playing at their best would even win against one of the best. The best I've seen from them was the 09 Prelim where they gave it a shake, but they still lost.

Are you suggesting that Collingwood played their best footy in GF1?

 

[doppleganger]

Of course they are a legit contender just like 4 or 5 other clubs, and you know it as well as the next guy.

There are not 5 clubs that are legit contenders....in 2010 there were 3.

Any club with a forward line of Franklin and Roughead will always be dangerous,

Pffft....B.Lions have Fev and Brown.....they are not dangerous.

and with a midfield of Hodge, Mitchell, Burgoyne and Sewell, there's enough class to challenge every club in the comp.

That aint that good....Sewell is nothing special, Burgoyne cant put a full season together (he has had what 2 good full years out of 10).

The Freo game was deplorable, but so was St Kilda's second Grand Final....and I still think they're a contender(if they can curve the off-field influences) with the amount of top end talent they have.

Difference being St.Kilda won two other finals......Hawthorn aint got close to winning a final for 2 years now.

It's not about the outcome of games in the seasons prior, it's about the list and what the scope is for success should all the ducks line up.

Ducks?

Hawthorn lost plenty of premiership ducks.....and have failed to replace them. They are now simply a mediocre team, in the last two year Hawthorn have won 21 of 45 games........MEDIOCRE.

 

[Rioli magic]

They are now simply a mediocre team, in the last two year Hawthorn have won 21 of 45 games........MEDIOCRE.

Only 19 wins not counting Collingwood.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

There are not 5 clubs that are legit contenders....in 2010 there were 3.

Adelaide would've been amongst the crop if not for a string of early season injuries.
Similarly the Bulldogs had a terrible second half of the year where they lost a number of key players.
The top contenders isn't set in stone for an entire season, and even the best clubs can hit hurdles at the wrong time of the year.

Pffft....B.Lions have Fev and Brown.....they are not dangerous.

Because they both had severely restricted years due to injury.
You need to acknowledge that, at least, and also the fact that their midfield was beaten most weeks.

That aint that good....Sewell is nothing special, Burgoyne cant put a full season together (he has had what 2 good full years out of 10).

The fact is that as a group, Mitchell, Hodge, Burgoyne, Sewell and others are a very good midfield unit.

Difference being St.Kilda won two other finals......Hawthorn aint got close to winning a final for 2 years now.

So what. 2011 isn't about 2009 and 2010.
In 2007, we finished the year with a similarly awkward performance against North, came back the next year and won the flag because we had the list to do it.

Ducks?

Hawthorn lost plenty of premiership ducks.....and have failed to replace them. They are now simply a mediocre team, in the last two year Hawthorn have won 21 of 45 games........MEDIOCRE.

So you honestly think that Hawthorn haven't underachieved in the last 2 yrs then?

I bet you were the same poster that would've claimed that Robbie Campbell was never going to be a premiership ruckman, that Dew was too fat, Croad was no good and that Crawford was passed it......

 

[the distributer]

Adelaide would've been amongst the crop if not for a string of early season injuries.
Similarly the Bulldogs had a terrible second half of the year where they lost a number of key players.
The top contenders isn't set in stone for an entire season, and even the best clubs can hit hurdles at the wrong time of the year.


Because they both had severely restricted years due to injury.
You need to acknowledge that, at least, and also the fact that their midfield was beaten most weeks.


The fact is that as a group, Mitchell, Hodge, Burgoyne, Sewell and others are a very good midfield unit.


So what. 2011 isn't about 2009 and 2010.
In 2007, we finished the year with a similarly awkward performance against North, came back the next year and won the flag because we had the list to do it.


So you honestly think that Hawthorn haven't underachieved in the last 2 yrs then?

I bet you were the same poster that would've claimed that Robbie Campbell was never going to be a premiership ruckman, that Dew was too fat, Croad was no good and that Crawford was passed it......

those players are gone now.

 

[Bardo State]

those players are gone now.

Yes, but similar types of things are being said now. I'm not saying we'll difinitely contend but to say we have no chance is ridiculous.

 

[doppleganger]

So you honestly think that Hawthorn haven't underachieved in the last 2 yrs then?

Honest.

Hawthorn are an average team....the results speak for themselves..a team that is tracking at sub .500 for the last two years is an average team.

Funny that Hawthorn supporters cant seem to fathom that.

I bet you were the same poster that would've claimed that Robbie Campbell was never going to be a premiership ruckman, that Dew was too fat, Croad was no good and that Crawford was passed it......

????

Those four blokes were key members of your premiership team.....all are no longer there.....and you aint replaced them.

Bit like Geelong, will they be able to replace Gazza.....I dont reckon they will.

I wonder if their supporters will still crap on about 2009 next year if they are struggling down in 8th spot?? If Hawthorn is an example they will still post threads saying everybody fears them and they are still a challenger.

 

[Bardo State]

It's December. Of course we are hoping for big things. Pretty much everry top 8 club are/should be!

 

[Silvagnis]

Hawks have got like 2 top liners and the rest are average - where the hell people getting 6-10 best from?

Why did they beat you if they're that poor?

Rioli, Sewell, Lewis, Birchall, Stratton, Mitchell, Bateman, Roughead, Young, Ellis and Burgoyne would all get games at Collingwood.

Blair played 12 games this year...

If you had Sewell, Mitchell or Lewis, you wouldn't have had to chase Ball and pay him a small fortune to get him to pick 30.

These three could play the Ball role.

A bit like like Rioli, Isaac Smith has the potential to give the Hawks the legspeed and x factor that their best 22 lacked.

The Hawks could beat any midfield and side on their day.

No one can stop Franklin.

Franklin firing makes Roughead a better player.

It's their KPD and ruck division that hasn't stood up since 2008.

The Hawks need Schoenmakers to become a KPD like Ben Reid did this year.

Goldsack and Toovey played in a flag, yet aren't better defenders than Gibson, Birchall and Stratton who stepped straight into AFL footy this year.

The Pies players stuck to their roles to be the premier team, but individually, they aren't as talented as the super teams like Essendon 2000, Carlton 1995, Geelong 2007 to 2009 and Brisbane's three peat.

Dreaming.

Collingwood's second tier aren't world beaters who would necessarily pull their weight if they played for WC, Essendon, Brisbane or Richmond. A fair few of their supporters were willing to offload Wellingham for Ball last year. And even more vitriolic towards Toovey when he was a battler and Malthouse's love child.

 

[doppleganger]

Why did they beat you if they're that poor?

Rioli, Sewell, Lewis, Birchall, Stratton, Mitchell, Bateman, Roughead, Young, Ellis and Burgoyne would all get games at Collingwood.

You have left out Buddy and Hodge.....so I presume you think that a combined side would have 13 Hawks and just 9 Collingwood players.

Laughable.

Sewell, Lewis, Birchall, Stratton, Bateman, Ellis would not make a combined team.

Sewell......L.Ball is better, he did just come 5th in Copeland.
Lewis.....Pendles is better.
Birchall......H.Shaw or O'Brien are both better rebounding HBF.
Stratton....Maxwell would play ahead of him.
Bateman.....Thomas much better
Ellis......pffft vanilla

Anyway, who did Hawthorn dismantle last year.....ie on their day they can destroy anybody. Pies PF against Geelong was sublime. No team could match that, especially Hawthorn of 2010.

 

[Bardo State]

Why are you comparing your second best midfielder to our 5th?

 

[doppleganger]

Why are you comparing your second best midfielder to our 5th?

I presume that was/is related to Lewis and Pendles.

Lewis aint as quick as Swan or Thomas, aint as silky as Didak, and aint as good in and under as Ball.....

If you were to pick a composite side and pick 8-10 midfielders Lewis and Sewell wouldn't make it.

B: H.O'Brien, Tarrant, H.Shaw
HB: Maxwell, Reid, Hodge
C: Thomas, Ball, S.Burgoyne
HF: Didak, T.Cloke, Franklin
F: Rioli, Roughead, Beams
Foll: Jolly, Mitchell, Swan

Plenty of names to go on the bench, perhaps split em 2-2

 

[Peck]

My question is; in what universe is Ball better than Sewell.