Strategy Who should be our next coach?

[George Kramer]

No way do I want Goodwin, good if we want to be put to sleep.

Melbourne had an elite midfield and arguably best ruck of all time, recruited gun defenders. We don’t have the elite midfield or gun ruck.

 

[AFC979810]

Roo has been trying to get Goodwin in the door since he joined the board. Well before he won a premiership. That's a nice selling point for Roo, but the desire for him has been a total boys club move.

Roo joined the board in 2014 and tried to get him over when the board sacked Sando. Has he tried to get Goody since then?

No problems with trying to get quality people in the door. Obviously he was a very in demand coaching candidate - with Melbourne and Roos believing in his qualities as a coach to offer him a 5 year contract with 2 years as an apprenticeship and 3 years as head coach. This has been followed up with a bunch of success and 3 separate contract extensions.

 

[AFC979810]

No way do I want Goodwin, good if we want to be put to sleep.

Since Goodwin has taken over goals scored and the teams best forward:

2017 - 5th - Garlett 42 goals (next best 26 goals)
2018 - 1st - Tom McDonald 53 goals (Hogan 46)
2019 - 17th - Petracca 22 goals (Hunt 21)
2020 - 8th - Fritsch 22 (Weideman 19)
2021 - 4th - Fritsch 59 (Pickett 40)
2022 - 6th - Fritsch 55 (Pickett 41)
2023 - 6th - Fritsch 38 (Pickett 37)

Finishing top 6 in scoring in 5 out of 7 years is no way boring - especially with the forward lines the Dees had to work with.

Melbourne had an elite midfield and arguably best ruck of all time, recruited gun defenders. We don’t have the elite midfield or gun ruck.

You can only play to the strengths of the squad. As I mentioned above he finished top 6 in scoring 5 of his 7 years. Imagine if he had a good forward line?

Since 2000 - Goodwin has had a squad very similar to ours from 2004 to 2007. An elite midfield with a mercurial 188cm leading forward as your clubs #1 forward.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

If Goodwin sets foot in this club in any official capacity (other than as an ex-player), I will never pay another cent to the club.

Got to admit, I'm surprised at the push against Goodwin

Premiership coach, broke a 57 year drought, has experience outside of the AFC

By all means target a better, more successful option but I'm not seeing too many

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Roo has been trying to get Goodwin in the door since he joined the board. Well before he won a premiership. That's a nice selling point for Roo, but the desire for him has been a total boys club move.

Shows that he was right in this instance though

 

[MRB37]

Shows that he was right in this instance though

You can't complain of a boys club and then try and get one of the boys in.

 

[Captain Furious]

You can't complain of a boys club and then try and get one of the boys in.

Boys club refers to giving jobs to your unqualified mates. Whatever you think of Goodwin, he's a premiership coach and made finals 6 out of 7 years. He's qualified for the job.

 

[MRB37]

Boys club refers to giving jobs to your unqualified mates. Whatever you think of Goodwin, he's a premiership coach and made finals 6 out of 7 years. He's qualified for the job.

Roo has wanted to give the job to Goodwin, even all the way back in 2014 because he was mates with him. Just like he did with Burton.

That's not even getting into the absolute mess he's caused at Melbourne behind the scenes which would have absolutely burned any chance of him being successful here.

 

[FullyBigKPro]

Got to admit, I'm surprised at the push against Goodwin

Premiership coach, broke a 57 year drought, has experience outside of the AFC

By all means target a better, more successful option but I'm not seeing too many

The only scenario I would consider Goodwin is if we get also someone like Dean Cox or a Blake Caracella etc.

IE - Cox or Caracella become the Senior Coach and Goodwin either becomes a 'Coaching Director' or takes Adam Kelly's role.

Basically I would want fully external fresh modern voices to come in with premiership credentials in their own right and fine to have Goodwin in a more periphery role not the main man.

 

[Jars458]

Got to admit, I'm surprised at the push against Goodwin

Premiership coach, broke a 57 year drought, has experience outside of the AFC

By all means target a better, more successful option but I'm not seeing too many

Where there's smoke there's flame. Culture and drug allegations..... He's one of the boys' club. Goodwin a terrible option for us.

 

[rabidcrow]

The only scenario I would consider Goodwin is if we get also someone like Dean Cox or a Blake Caracella etc.

IE - Cox or Caracella become the Senior Coach and Goodwin either becomes a 'Coaching Director' or takes Adam Kelly's role.

Basically I would want fully external fresh modern voices to come in with premiership credentials in their own right and fine to have Goodwin in a more periphery role not the main man.

So you would rather have an unproven coach - a throw at the stumps - compared to a proven success as head coach?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[FullyBigKPro]

So you would rather have an unproven coach - a throw at the stumps - compared to a proven success as head coach?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Like McCrae was?

As others have stated above i'm just wary of the negatives of Goodwin, yes he won a flag but had an extremely talented list to do it.

Not sure Goodwin's rigid defensive style would suit our young group, but in the right role may have some value.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

You can't complain of a boys club and then try and get one of the boys in.

The criticism of a Boys Club culture is that "the boys" are getting picked due to their relationship(s) with the AFC, not on their merit

Clearly Goodwin has the merit to warrant serious consideration

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Like McCrae was?

As others have stated above i'm just wary of the negatives of Goodwin, yes he won a flag but had an extremely talented list to do it.

Not sure Goodwin's rigid defensive style would suit our young group, but in the right role may have some value.

Who has won flags without a talented list?

 

[FullyBigKPro]

Who has won flags without a talented list?

True - as mentioned, i'm not against Goodwin in a more mentor/coaching director gig, but to balance it out would love an up and coming Assistant to come in as well for more fresh ideas.

Lets face it, we need a full clean out of the coaching group bar Hombsch at this stage!

 

[DJ75]

Melbourne have been a rabble most of the time I've been watching footy, now they're consistently one of the best teams. Their drafting and recruiting has been very good but if Nicks is ultimately responsible for our current predicament, then surely Goodwin deserves some kudos for the team they are now?

EDIT: I don't think he should be our next coach, just surprised at the strong reaction against him.

Does he also deserve credit for having an elite team and being very ordinary now?

 

[DJ75]

Surely thats a little extreme. He has been at Melbourne 10 years and has been very successful.

What Melbourne/Goodwin have done is something to be emulated.

They brought in Paul Roos in 2013 and then Goodwin in 2014 where he served as an assistant for 2 years (2015/2016) before taking over.

Goodwin has coached 173 games. Is 100 - 72 - 1 and has a flag. He has made finals 3 out of his 7 years with a GF win, Prelim loss and Semi Final exit (by 13 points).



The difference here is that Goodwin is a premiership coach at AFL level. He has shown he has what it takes to deliver a flag.

Of all the boys club appointments to be upset about a premiership winning coach ain't one of them.

Goodwin won a flag with an elite defence (thanks to recruiting) and one of the best midfields of all time - Gawn is being talked about as the best ruck ever, Viney is an annoying twat but good, Oliver was elite before the drugs and Petracca is close to Dusty levels.
Not sure his coaching should get all the credit here.

 

[Scorpus]

Got to admit, I'm surprised at the push against Goodwin

Premiership coach, broke a 57 year drought, has experience outside of the AFC

By all means target a better, more successful option but I'm not seeing too many

Goodwin's gameplan changes this year scream "Matthew Nicks" just with a much better list

 

[Scorpus]

Goodwin won a flag with an elite defence (thanks to recruiting) and one of the best midfields of all time - Gawn is being talked about as the best ruck ever, Viney is an annoying twat but good, Oliver was elite before the drugs and Petracca is close to Dusty levels.
Not sure his coaching should get all the credit here.

It's funny seeing Port Adelaide fans sook about Hinkley burning their "elite" list (which actually isn't that good)

The actual coach burning an elite list is Simon Goodwin. Winning a flag is a tick, but he hasn't won a final since and their window is still wide open.

If Melbourne actually let Goodwin go for whatever reason, it should be a massive red flag for us. You don't let premiership coaches leave unless there are serious issues.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

I'm sure Goodwin would thrive without Petracca, Oliver, Fritsch etc. holding him back.

 

[maxlilly]

The only scenario I would consider Goodwin is if we get also someone like Dean Cox or a Blake Caracella etc.

IE - Cox or Caracella become the Senior Coach and Goodwin either becomes a 'Coaching Director' or takes Adam Kelly's role.

Basically I would want fully external fresh modern voices to come in with premiership credentials in their own right and fine to have Goodwin in a more periphery role not the main man.

Not that I know much about Dean Cox, but for some reason I think he would be a good senior coach also.
Being up in Sydney, I think they are one of the best run clubs in the league.
Obviously John Longmire is an incredible coach to learn from.

We seriously need change in many positions at executive level at the club.
It has been extremely disappointing that Silvers hasn't made one change in all his time at the club to try and improve it.
I think Silvers is a big issue also.

You would just feel getting Cox would improve our midfield set up.
He may even make the club get a decent ruckman
Along with new assistants, anything would be better than what we currently have

 

[Slime Roy]

Roo has wanted to give the job to Goodwin, even all the way back in 2014 because he was mates with him. Just like he did with Burton.

That's not even getting into the absolute mess he's caused at Melbourne behind the scenes which would have absolutely burned any chance of him being successful here.

Can you just imagine the furore if you replaced "Crows" with ""Dees" in those instances.

 

[Captain Furious]

Does he also deserve credit for having an elite team and being very ordinary now?

Does Nicks get a pass because of his average list? Is it the players or the coach who are primarily responsible, or just whatever suits your argument at the time?

He wouldn’t be my choice but there’s never been a coach that won a flag and made finals 6 out of 7 seasons who didn’t know what they were doing. Yes the team who won the premiership was very good, that’s how premierships work.

 

[BACCS]

Does Nicks get a pass because of his average list? Is it the players or the coach who are primarily responsible, or just whatever suits your argument at the time?

He wouldn’t be my choice but there’s never been a coach that won a flag and made finals 6 out of 7 seasons who didn’t know what they were doing. Yes the team who won the premiership was very good, that’s how premierships work.

Is the list average?

Do you we good KPD stocks and elite kicks off half back?
Murray, Keane, Worrell, Curtin, Hinge, Milera and MM with Butts/Borlase/Ryan as depth

Do we have good young KPF stocks and a medium/small forward/mids?
Fogarty, Thilthorpe, Welsh (2025), Rankine, Rachele, Pedlar

Do we have good midfield stocks? Dawson, Rankine, Soligo, Dowling, Taylor, Crouch - this is certainly the area we can still improve the most, but is good enough to be at least making finals now

Is this a list that should be sitting bottom 4?

 

[Blue Red and Gold]

Because it will be yet another in the line of Roo's mates appointments. It will be another in the line of Craig's disciples. Just another indication that the boys club remains. (and I say nothing of his off field behaviour)
If he is working at the club, it says we haven't changed and haven't learnt. It says there is no way forward.
If that happens, I'm gone. For good.

While I acknowledge there is a strong connection there between the two, I think the fact he would come as a premiership winning coach would indicate that this would be more than just a job for a mate.
Its not like Goody is coming from Div 12 Ressies.