Banter Who will be Better in 2025, Collingwood or Carlton? Part 4

[Meteoric Rise]

Hard to argue with any of that.

Nice to see some unbiased, objective analysis.

Except for the fact he failed to mention at least 10 of the current best 23 will have turned 31 by some point in the season, and wrongly claimed Daicos was 19 during the 2023 GF, and failed to explain exactly how Harry Perryman is going to "help this team so much," and listed Mihocek, Membrey, McStay - average age 31 during the season as a triple threat when none of them have ever been any better than an average key forward even before the serious injuries they are all coming off...and "scary" N Daicos is actually "scared" N Daicos.

Guy wants likes on his YouTube offering, heaps unjustified praise on Collingwood. Yawn.

 

[JustaBattler]

Except for the fact he failed to mention at least 10 of the current best 23 will have turned 31 by some point in the season, and wrongly claimed Daicos was 19 during the 2023 GF, and failed to explain exactly how Harry Perryman is going to "help this team so much," and listed Mihocek, Membrey, McStay - average age 31 during the season as a triple threat when none of them have ever been any better than an average key forward even before the serious injuries they are all coming off...and "scary" N Daicos is actually "scared" N Daicos.

Guy wants likes on his YouTube offering, heaps unjustified praise on Collingwood. Yawn.

Faith knocking on hope's door is how I would describe this epistle from Mount Laughter.

I particularly enjoyed his casual mentioning of 'only' Pendelbury, Sidebottom, Elliot and Howe as being 'old' apart from Mason Cox and Mitchell who he described as being "obviously not best 22"...capped off by reminding everyone of Collingwood's yearly taxing ( sic) draw of 17 Melbourne 'home' games...

No doubt that they will need every bit of home ground advantage and umpire favouratism to go with it - once again the AFL conjuers up a way to give this CLub a leg up on every other team...

 

[Fadge]

Hewett and Acres C graders clueless

Oh sorry.

How could I forget?

Every player on Carlton's list is apparently an A Grader...

 

[Fadge]

Don't you love Carlton supporters?

The Carlton list, which has had 12, 13 and 13 win seasons, are relying on improvement from unproven players to elevate from 'contending for a finals position' to 'contending for a premiership'.

Meanwhile Collingwood, who won the flag in 2023 after an 18 win season, can't possibly return to that level despite injecting its list with proven quality (including a dual All -Australian).

 

[Arr0w]

Don't you love Collingwood supporters?

Thinking list changes is the most important fundamental aspect of a sides output

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Oh sorry.

How could I forget?

Every player on Carlton's list is apparently an A Grader...

Where would Acres rank in the overall scheme of wingers around the league?

 

[Fadge]

Don't you love Collingwood supporters?

Thinking list changes is the most important fundamental aspect of a sides output

Yeah, I'm sure it's merely coincidence that a significant factor in Collingwood's most recent two premierships have been the inclusion of quality players that have played important roles in their premiership teams - addressing clear shortcomings in their list that had previously fallen short of the premiership.

2010 - Jolly, Ball, Brown
2023 - Hill, Mitchell, McStay

 

[Fadge]

Where would Acres rank in the overall scheme of wingers around the league?

Where would wingers rank relative to the other players in the league?

Gulden - top 10 to 20?
J. Daicos - top 50 to 60?

D'Ambrosio was then mentioned - he has played a single great season where he finished 10th in Hawthorn's best and fairest?

Feel free to go ahead and name the best 10 wingers in the competition....

 

[South of the Yarra]

Arr0w Robertio WalshistheGOAT Worm4 carlton_99 YeoShuey Irish BlueBagger

As Carlton supporters I respect and have had great discussion with, I would love your opinion on something. A mate of mine asked me to do the best Carlton side I have seen playing in my time watching football. The team I have come up with so far is below. Any suggestions? Anyone I have forgotten? Any inclusions? Any omissions needed? Thanks in advance.

A.McKay Southby Silvagni

Doull Weitering Hunter

Koutifidies Williams Bradley

Johnston Kernahan Buckley

Gallagher Jesaulenko Ashman

Nicholls Cripps

Judd

Crane Fitzpatrick Walls Keogh Silvagni Snr

 

[Arr0w]

Yeah, I'm sure it's merely coincidence that a significant factor in Collingwood's most recent two premierships have been the inclusion of quality players that have played important roles in their premiership teams - addressing clear shortcomings in their list that had previously fallen short of the premiership.

2010 - Jolly, Ball, Brown
2023 - Hill, Mitchell, McStay

These were your list changes end of 2023, and your prediction for the Pies for 2024 was top 4/premiers. So where were the holes in your analysis?

IN

Harry DeMattia (No.25 draft pick), Jack Bytel (SSP, St Kilda), Josh Eyre (SSP, Collingwood VFL), Wil Parker (Category B rookie), Lachie Schultz (trade, Fremantle), Lachie Sullivan (SSP, Footscray VFL) Tew Jiath (No.37 draft pick)

OUT

Taylor Adams (trade, Sydney), Trent Bianco (delisted), Arlo Draper (delisted), Jack Ginnivan (trade, Hawthorn), Will Kelly (delisted), Cooper Murley (delisted), Trey Ruscoe (delisted), Tom Wilson (delisted)

 

[Robertio]

Arr0w Robertio WalshistheGOAT Worm4 carlton_99 YeoShuey Irish BlueBagger

As Carlton supporters I respect and have had great discussion with, I would love your opinion on something. A mate of mine asked me to do the best Carlton side I have seen playing in my time watching football. The team I have come up with so far is below. Any suggestions? Anyone I have forgotten? Any inclusions? Any omissions needed? Thanks in advance.

A.McKay Southby Silvagni

Doull Weitering Hunter

Koutifidies Williams Bradley

Johnston Kernahan Buckley

Gallagher Jesaulenko Ashman

Nicholls Cripps

Judd

Crane Fitzpatrick Walls Keogh Silvagni Snr

Pretty fair mate and it shows where we are as far as the 21st century goes, i like Kouta on the wing as well.

 

[kreuze_missile]

Don't you love Carlton supporters?

The Carlton list, which has had 12, 13 and 13 win seasons, are relying on improvement from unproven players to elevate from 'contending for a finals position' to 'contending for a premiership'.

Meanwhile Collingwood, who won the flag in 2023 after an 18 win season, can't possibly return to that level despite injecting its list with proven quality (including a dual All -Australian).

Father time says no.

So does Jagga Smith.

 

[Noidnadroj]

The Pies ‘best-23’ is very strong. But the age profile says it would be a miracle to get a great injury run in 2025.

The depth at the Pies in multiple areas of the ground is really poor.

Who is their second best KPD? Howe who turns 35yo in June? And even then he’s only 190cm. And Darcy Moore had a pretty poor 2024, so there’s question marks on him returning to his best.

Who is their second best KPF? McStay? Membrey? Cox? When your best KPF is a workhorse in Mihocek who is 32yo by round 1, it’s really thin pickings.

Then second best ruck? It’s Cox then kids. Cox is 34yo by Round 1.

So if injuries strike at even a small level the Pies are cooked (as far as contending goes) as they have very poor depth.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Robertio]

So it's gone from 'another 3 years of serious footy' to 'another 3 years of better performance', in which case the inclusion of the word 'another' is incorrect and redundant.

You're bullish about having 2 to 3 more years from a couple of C Graders in Hewett and Acres, and 6 players who are yet to prove a thing at the level, from the 14 players listed.

All Carlton have done with their list decisions this off season is minimise the risk of bottoming out again in the medium term, at the expense of building a list to give them the best chance to contend for a premiership in the immediate term.

Ha ha ha i stopped reading at C graders.

 

[Fadge]

These were your list changes end of 2023, and your prediction for the Pies for 2024 was top 4/premiers. So where were the holes in your analysis?

IN

Harry DeMattia (No.25 draft pick), Jack Bytel (SSP, St Kilda), Josh Eyre (SSP, Collingwood VFL), Wil Parker (Category B rookie), Lachie Schultz (trade, Fremantle), Lachie Sullivan (SSP, Footscray VFL) Tew Jiath (No.37 draft pick)

OUT

Taylor Adams (trade, Sydney), Trent Bianco (delisted), Arlo Draper (delisted), Jack Ginnivan (trade, Hawthorn), Will Kelly (delisted), Cooper Murley (delisted), Trey Ruscoe (delisted), Tom Wilson (delisted)

And the Pies had a bad year in 2024, after contending for premierships in 2022 and 2023.

As a result, we've improved our list with proven quality players, to provide more depth and flexibility in 2025.

2024 was the exception to the rule for Collingwood, after contending for the flag in 2022 and 2023.

Carlton have been consistently mid table for the past three years, and have done nothing to materially improve their list with proven players going into 2025.

 

[Robertio]

Hewett and Acres C graders clueless

Not clueless but trolling.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Hewett and Acres C graders clueless

Acres has been a superior performer to Perryman in recent seasons. And Hewett is definitely superior to Lipinski. I’d assume they’d be regarded as like for like? So based on that Perryman (on $700k/season) and Lipinskj are D+.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Robertio]

Oh sorry.

How could I forget?

Every player on Carlton's list is apparently an A Grader...

and who said that?

 

[Robertio]

And the Pies had a bad year in 2024, after contending for premierships in 2022 and 2023.

As a result, we've improved our list with proven quality players, to provide more depth and flexibility in 2025.

2024 was the exception to the rule for Collingwood, after contending for the flag in 2022 and 2023.

Carlton have been consistently mid table for the past three years, and have done nothing to materially improve their list with proven players going into 2025.

Houston is a HBF and the other two are ordinary.

 

[kreuze_missile]

and who said that?

Every player on Carlton's list is an A grader.

 

[Arr0w]

And the Pies had a bad year in 2024, after contending for premierships in 2022 and 2023.

As a result, we've improved our list with proven quality players, to provide more depth and flexibility in 2025.

2024 was the exception to the rule for Collingwood, after contending for the flag in 2022 and 2023.

Carlton have been consistently mid table for the past three years, and have done nothing to materially improve their list with proven players going into 2025.

You are still deflecting from my question

If you believe list changes are the fundamental basis for a sides output, where you predicted top 4/premiers, why did you win 6 less games and finish outside the 8?

 

[kreuze_missile]

Carlton have been consistently mid table for the past three years

Finished 3rd in 2023, 7th in 2024.

We were top 2 in the last 2 seasons before injuries ruined both years.

But i'm sure that Fadge logic means that everyone who doesn't win the flag is "mid table".

 

[Fadge]

You are still deflecting from my question

If you believe list changes are the fundamental basis for a sides output, where you predicted top 4/premiers, why did you win 6 less games and finish outside the 8?

Read the first sentence of my post, where I in fact answered your question.

 

[Fadge]

Finished 3rd in 2023, 7th in 2024.

We were top 2 in the last 2 seasons before injuries ruined both years.

But i'm sure that Fadge logic means that everyone who doesn't win the flag is "mid table".

Love how Carlton finished 3rd in 2023, despite finishing 5th after home and away, and being miles off the top 4.

And '7th in 2024', despite finishing 8th after home and away, and going 0 and 60 in the Elimination Final. How did Carlton elevate from 8th to 7th, by losing their Elim?

So anyone who is top 2, or top 4, at any stage of any season, can use that as a true reflection of where they truly belong...

Phew. Collingwood were 3rd at one stage of 2024 - we didn't have that bad a season after all...

 

[kreuze_missile]

Phew. Collingwood were 3rd at one stage of 2024 - we didn't have that bad a season after all...

Given the age profile of your list I think Collingwood had an excellent 2024 season.

I expect recent trends to continue.. 18 wins (2023), 12 wins (2024, 6 wins (2025).

16th feels about right