Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today.... part 2

[Chief]

Reminder:

This isn't the Israel/Hamas thread.

Go to the Israel/Hamas thread if you want to talk about that.

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

Part I: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack.1371828/page-47#post-81443295 Thread Rules: Alright. I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have...

www.bigfooty.com

Thanks.

 

[bzparkes]

Hang on a minute.

You said this:

I'm not debating you on whether you're right/wrong, because that's not interesting to me. What I find interesting is your attempts to reframe a barely concealed Great Replacement argument into supposedly non-racist rhetoric.

You complained that you were being attacked, being called racist; that you'd never depicted Islam as a race. Upon pointing out that you have absolutely treated Islam as a singular, ubiquitous glob of suck, you then try to reframe the argument as 'I'm not wrong'.

I'd have thought behaving in a racist way is wrong, but you do you.

Great replacement theory would imply that someone is behind all this. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think I've said this.

It's true that many have come from being displace by catastrophe/war in their own country. Of course they'll seek refuge somewhere.

There have been multiple incidents of Russia trying to force illegals from Muslim countries across the Polish border recently via Belarus, but obviously this isn't the same thing.

I'm also failing to understand why people equate being critical of a religious group = racism.
For a dose of whataboutism, if I had the exact same criticisms of Christians(which I absolutely would in the same circumstances), would you then still call me a racist?

 

[ShanDog]

Well it does, as central to the discussion is the concept that people who come from countries which aren't currently liberal democracies are less inclined to have children that acquire democratic values. The discussion stems from the idea that if we end up with "too many" Muslims, or people who descend from countries that are not currently liberal democracies, then we will cease to be a liberal democracy.


In terms of concepts - the word is describing something - if what it is describing actually exists - the concept isn't made up.

That is quite removed from the context of the original discussion.

 

[sr36]

That is quite removed from the context of the original discussion.

No it's not. That is the original discussion. This stemmed from the fear of "too many" Muslims with it being suggested that we will stop being a liberal democracy.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Most of the spread of Islam in the middle east ( and Europe at the time ) seems to have occurred due to conquest by Muslim armies.
In south East Asia it seems to have self propagated after being introduced by traders. Local leaders adopted it and other leaders ( Sultans ) followed. This was all well before Christian missionaries.

I'm not aware of any country which has become a "Muslim country" due to "outbreeding" the locals, let alone a "western" country. You'd think that a democracy would be less likely to adopt religious laws than historic principalities in Asia. ( at the whim of one guy, don't you love the Sultan of Brunai, do what i say...not what i do ).

Not sure about the situations in all the African countries. Many of them have been Islamic for hundreds of years.
Ivory Coast has a population of around 40% Muslim and 40% Christian.
Their government was stable and prosperous, then turned to crap including a couple of civil wars. Religious conflict doesn't seem to be a huge factor in things.

 

[Gethelred]

Great replacement theory would imply that someone is behind all this. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think I've said this.

Not really. GRT refers merely to a supposed future in which the whites are bred out, and there's a lot of variations of it.

I'm sure there are people who think a NWO is involved and organising this - or George Soros - but you don't have to be one of them to be running with GRT.

It's true that many have come from being displace by catastrophe/war in their own country. Of course they'll seek refuge somewhere.

There have been multiple incidents of Russia trying to force illegals from Muslim countries across the Polish border recently via Belarus, but obviously this isn't the same thing.

Why?

I find the relativism inherent in setting Islamic nations apart as special examples of modern evil when we don't have to look much further than West Timor to see just how awfully Australia is willing to allow their neighbours to be slaughtered systematically provided we're selling something to Indonesia or how content we are perpetuating the ongoing mistreatment of our own indigenous population.

While I've my own issues with the 'religion of peace', I certainly don't think of them as threats of breeding us out.

Tell me, why did you mention Islamic family sizes, Bzparkes?

I'm also failing to understand why people equate being critical of a religious group = racism.

... because you've referred to them as 'military age males' - which has an implication of violence inherent in the wording - and mentioned Arabs multiple times. You've painted rather a lot of people with the ISIS brush with those words, then you've mentioned birth rates.

Specificity trap: you imply something pretty directly then object when called out for it because you didn't explicitly say that thing.

For a dose of whataboutism, if I had the exact same criticisms of Christians(which I absolutely would in the same circumstances), would you then still call me a racist?

It depends.

Are you calling out Catholics as mass breeding, alcoholic, violent and burdens on society? Because if you were, you'd be adhering to racist tropes about Italians and Irish from the 19th and early 20th centuries, and you'd absolutely be being racist by doing so.

 

[Carringbush2010]

What if we broaden the question slightly and ask for examples of western democracies being taken over by any religion to lead to loss of rights

Then we can add USA

Go ahead!

 

[Chief]

Well, is it a race?

Common usage, of course.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Common usage, of course.

What if i have an irrational hatred for Arab Muslims, but think that Indonesian Muslims are fine?

 

[Chief]

What if i have an irrational hatred for Arab Muslims, but think that Indonesian Muslims are fine?

At first it sounds like an interesting moral puzzle, but really you'd just be a bigot.

 

[Demons09]

Gas the I mean Wheres the Jews?

I don't think any of these protestors even know what they are saying.

Probably not reflective of the wider Islamic community.

The Greens support these rallies , they’ve even somehow let kids have days off from school to support these protests that’s the future of this country.

 

[ZEV]

The Greens support these rallies , they’ve even somehow let kids have days off from school to support these protests that’s the future of this country.

Everyone is entitled to their political views, I do however have an issue with politicizing children and education should take priority over indoctrination.

 

[faible]

The Greens support these rallies , they’ve even somehow let kids have days off from school to support these protests that’s the future of this country.

The Greens did this?

 

[Chief]

The Greens did this?

Ultimate denial of parental agency!

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

The Greens support these rallies , they’ve even somehow let kids have days off from school to support these protests that’s the future of this country.

 

[Number37]

The Greens support these rallies , they’ve even somehow let kids have days off from school to support these protests that’s the future of this country.

Israeli supporters want to stop people protesting the slaughter of children but they don't want to stop the slaughter of children.
That's how F'd in the head they are.

 

[ZEV]

Israeli supporters want to stop people protesting the slaughter of children but they don't want to stop the slaughter of children.
That's how F'd in the head they are.

This Israeli condemns the use of children as soldiers, suicide bombers, human shields, tunnel builders and tools of propaganda.

This Israeli mourns the death of all innocent civilians.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

This Israeli condemns the use of children as soldiers, suicide bombers, human shields, tunnel builders and tools of propaganda.

This Israeli mourns the death of all innocent civilians.

Whenever you use the term human shields, you are politicising children.

 

[ZEV]

Whenever you use the term human shields, you are politicising children.

Condemning the use of force to restrict the movement of innocent civilians from a legitimate military target is politicising children?

Are you saying that's a bad thing?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Condemning the use of force to restrict the movement of innocent civilians from a legitimate military target is politicising children?

Are you saying that's a bad thing?

If a terrorist was using you and/or your child as a human shield, I wouldn’t bomb or shoot you.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

If a terrorist was using you and/or your child as a human shield, I wouldn’t bomb or shoot you.

Great it works, I'll use that method in future.

 

[ZEV]

If a terrorist was using you and/or your child as a human shield, I wouldn’t bomb or shoot you.

That's noble.

So you approve the use of children as a means of defending legitimate military targets.

EDIT: Take it to the war crimes thread post on there about how that is a war crime you support.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

That's noble.

So you approve the use of children as a means of defending legitimate military targets.

EDIT: Take it to the war crimes thread post on there about how that is a war crime you support.

No. I’m saying I wouldn’t shoot through a child to kill a terrorist.

It’s weird that you don’t understand that.

 

[ZEV]

No. I’m saying I wouldn’t shoot through a child to kill a terrorist.

It’s weird that you don’t understand that.

I'm not sure why you felt the need to share it.

I condemned the terrorist holding the child.

Not sure why you are posting this in the thread.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Not sure the children are visible from several kilometres away. But the IDF should just assume they are in the vicinity of the target because they are made to be. It's a mystery why Hamas don't move the children away from their weapons/ammunition/rocket launchers, and launch their attacks in an area free from civilians, but maybe they don't realise the danger they are putting the children into

 

[faible]

Not sure the children are visible from several kilometres away. But the IDF should just assume they are in the vicinity of the target because they are made to be. It's a mystery why Hamas don't move the children away from their weapons/ammunition/rocket launchers, and launch their attacks in an area free from civilians, but maybe they don't realise the danger they are putting the children into

It's strange that every time a school, kindergarten, hospital, refugee camp, university, house, or ambulance is bombed, it's because 'Hamas is there'.

Do people not care because the thousands of kids dying, and tens of thousands more injured, are Muslim?