Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today.... part 2

[Chief]

Reminder: This isn't the Israel/Hamas thread. Go to the Israel/Hamas thread if you want to talk about that. Thanks.

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

Part I: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack.1371828/page-47#post-81443295 Thread Rules: Alright. I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Been in the forest all weekend with my Muslim brothers.

setting up the shield generators on the forest moon of Endor?

 

[ZEV]

As opposed to the zionist colonizers you identify with, the ongoing apartheid and genocide?

Jews are indigenous to Israel.

They are a forcefully displaced people who have always retained strong religious and cultural links to the land of Israel.

Jews successfully decolonised Israel.

I'm not interested in debating history with you but the facts are clear.

You have previously asserted that because residents of the OPT do not vote in Israeli elections that is apartheid. That is ridiculous and blatantly ignorant statement.

There is a war going on, that does not make it a genocide. Your continued inaccurate use of emotive language to prosecute your political views indicate a level of insensitivity to those who have suffered those horrific things.

You are no friend of Palestine.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Jews are indigenous to Israel.

They are a forcefully displaced people who have always retained strong religious and cultural links to the land of Israel.

Jews successfully decolonised Israel.

I'm not interested in debating history with you but the facts are clear.

You have previously asserted that because residents of the OPT do not vote in Israeli elections that is apartheid. That is ridiculous and blatantly ignorant statement.

There is a war going on, that does not make it a genocide. Your continued inaccurate use of emotive language to prosecute your political views indicate a level of insensitivity to those who have suffered those horrific things.

You are no friend of Palestine.

I want all of Palestine to be free. All races and religions free. Not the religious supremacist ethnostate that you support.

 

[ZEV]

I want all of Palestine to be free. All races and religions free. Not the religious supremacist ethnostate that you support.

So you don't support the existence of Israel?

 

[ZEV]

Remember when parts of Palestine were renamed Israel?

Nope, were you around then?

 

[ZEV]

setting up the shield generators on the forest moon of Endor?

No, quick little camping/4wd trip with our children. Very peaceful, great cooking and lots of fun. You probably wouldn't like it.

 

[ZEV]

I want all of Palestine to be free. All races and religions free. Not the religious supremacist ethnostate that you support.

Typical coloniser attitude.

Always wants things their way. Always thinks they know best.

 

[Number37]

Nope, were you around then?

Were you around when your mates in the IDF were slaughtering Palestinian children yesterday, the day before, the day before, the day before, the day before....??
No you weren't around.

You were on Bigfooty pretending that people were on your driveway trying to get you.
Your mates, slaughtering children and you're here on a footy forum defending them, justifying their slaughter of Palestinian children and pretending that you went camping with your "Muslim brothers".

 

[Number37]

Jews are indigenous to Israel.

They are a forcefully displaced people who have always retained strong religious and cultural links to the land of Israel.

Jews successfully decolonised Israel.

I'm not interested in debating history with you but the facts are clear.

You have previously asserted that because residents of the OPT do not vote in Israeli elections that is apartheid. That is ridiculous and blatantly ignorant statement.

There is a war going on, that does not make it a genocide. Your continued inaccurate use of emotive language to prosecute your political views indicate a level of insensitivity to those who have suffered those horrific things.

You are no friend of Palestine.

Lies. Lies. Lies.
Israel is, and has always been, a terrorist state.
Basic logic tells you that Jews could not have been 'indigenous to Israel' because Israel never existed until 1947.
Jews are indigenous to Palestine. PALESTINE.
NEVER EVER were Jews the sole inhabitants of Palestine. NEVER.

There is no war. There is only genocide.
Slaughtering 15,000 children is not war.
Destroying hospitals is not war.
Carpet bombing refugee camps is not war.

 

[ZEV]

Lies. Lies. Lies.
Israel is, and has always been, a terrorist state.
Basic logic tells you that Jews could not have been 'indigenous to Israel' because Israel never existed until 1947.
Jews are indigenous to Palestine. PALESTINE.
NEVER EVER were Jews the sole inhabitants of Palestine. NEVER.

There is no war. There is only genocide.
Slaughtering 15,000 children is not war.
Destroying hospitals is not war.
Carpet bombing refugee camps is not war.

Take your hatred, nonsense and disinformation somewhere else.

 

[Gethelred]

Well, is it a race?

Have I been racist towards Arabs, Asians, etc in this thread?

No, I've been critical of a religion that is the topic of this thread.

Being critical of something doesn't automatically = bigot. It's alarming people on this board can't understand this.

If you can't understand that being critical of a religion isn't racist, then you're not mature enough for this discussion.

Also, try answering the question instead of going full strawman.

The way you've described muslims and Islam in this thread is as follows:

Ever notice how these 'refugees' entering Europe are mostly military aged men from Arab nations?

Ok, so based on what you're saying, you agree that importing millions of men aged 15-25 from Islamic countries into Europe was a ****ing stupid idea then?

30+ years. Compare birth rates of Muslims to native Europeans in Europe. Muslim birth rates are 52% higher than their native European counterparts.

Sure, it may take longer than 30 years but they'll get there eventually.

You're certainly speaking like you think they're a race.

 

[Gethelred]

ZEV, Number37, this isn't the thread to discuss the Hamas conflict.

Subsequent posts in that direction will be deleted.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Those were merely 2 examples of liberal societies taken over when Islam become a majority.
Well duh, that's a captain obvious.

The problem with your examples is that both Iran and Lebanon are secular societies in the middle east. Not what one would consider a 'western liberal democracy'

So, what is your point then with this?

If only we had examples of this happening before that we could use for an example?

My point, and always, the fear of losing our liberal democracies in far away lands (like here) from the middle east is preposterous.

What if we broaden the question slightly and ask for examples of western democracies being taken over by any religion to lead to loss of rights

Then we can add USA

 

[bzparkes]

The way you've described muslims and Islam in this thread is as follows:



You're certainly speaking like you think they're a race.

Was I wrong about any of those things?

Was I derogatory in those posts you quoted?

It's rapidly becoming a major issue in Europe now, to the point that even members of those parties who supported the move to bring these refugees in are now starting to say they were wrong

 

[sr36]

So despite all the "stupid ShanDog arguments", it turns out you can in fact identity that westernised countries do enjoy better rights and freedoms that other forms of government. Glad you got there.

If you define all liberal countries as western, then yes western countries have more freedoms... It's pretty ridiculous however to define all liberal countries as Western. Western is a made up concept anyway and then it becomes absurd when you include countries that are much more closely culturally aligned to China than America.

 

[CM86]

Was I wrong about any of those things?

Yes.

Was I derogatory in those posts you quoted?

Yes.




That was a reply to you about pretending that you're not being racist, because "Islam is not a race".
As usual when you've been presented with evidence that opposes your position, you move to a different area.

You have an aversion to staying on any one single point, because you're not being honest and you're tripping over yourself to imply and fearmonger.

There is no coherent line between your dialogues.
Purple monkey dishwasher.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Remember when parts of Palestine were renamed Israel?

what when it was a british administered district formerly part of Syria under the Ottomans?

 

[bzparkes]

Yes.


Yes.




That was a reply to you about pretending that you're not being racist, because "Islam is not a race".
As usual when you've been presented with evidence that opposes your position, you move to a different area.

You have an aversion to staying on any one single point, because you're not being honest and you're tripping over yourself to imply and fearmonger.

There is no coherent line between your dialogues.
Purple monkey dishwasher.

1. Islam is not a race.
2. You haven't presented any 'facts', just a link to a wiki article.
3. You're not worth any of my time moving forward, because you can't form a coherent argument to support your stance.

 

[ShanDog]

If you define all liberal countries as western, then yes western countries have more freedoms... It's pretty ridiculous however to define all liberal countries as Western. Western is a made up concept anyway and then it becomes absurd when you include countries that are much more closely culturally aligned to China than America.

Everything is a made up concept. Silly thing to argue.

I won't bother going into detail about why you're incorrect as we've been told to move on, but I'd recommend doing just a little bit of reading on Westernism.

 

[sr36]

Everything is a made up concept. Silly thing to argue.

I won't bother going into detail about why you're incorrect as we've been told to move on, but I'd recommend doing just a little bit of reading on Westernism.

Is it? Weather? The environment? Transport? Literacy? All made up concepts?

I have read about Westernism - both claims supporting the concept and claims refuting the concept.

Westernism is an ignorant idea that ignores that much of what is described as Westernism was historically first evidenced in "the East." and "the South". It's eurocentric rubbish.

 

[CM86]

1. Islam is not a race.
2. You haven't presented any 'facts', just a link to a wiki article.
3. You're not worth any of my time moving forward, because you can't form a coherent argument to support your stance.

Observer: You're being racist towards 'brown people', refugees, Arabs etc.
bzparkes: Islam is not a race.

Observer: You're not talking about Islam, here are your posts talking about refugees, Arabs, immigration, brown people etc.
bzparkes: AM I WRONG??

Observer: Yes, but this is in relation to you saying that you're just talking about Islam, and not any races.
bzparkes: Islam is not a race.

Observer: Yes, that's not what I'm saying. Here is another post where you are repeating talking points from the white nationalist great replacement conspiracy. So it's about the people, not the religion.
bzparkes: UAE say the same thing!

Observer: No they clearly do not. And this is just still in reply to you, in how you're being racist as you're not just discussing Islam. You aren't discussing people converting to Islam etc. You are just talking about the 'dangers' and 'threat' of brown people coming into Western countries... As evidenced by your own posts that you have made in this thread...
bzparkes: Islam is not a race, I'm the victim, goodbye!



If you're not actually doing it deliberately, go back and look for yourself.

 

[ShanDog]

Is it? Weather? The environment? Transport? Literacy? All made up concepts?

Every concept is, yet. It's associated with the root meaning of the word. That doesn't make them untrue. But the argument "That concept associated with culture and society is made up," literally means nothing. Because of course it is.

Westernism is an ignorant idea that ignores that much of what is described as Westernism was historically first evidenced in "the East." and "the South". It's eurocentric rubbish.

Choose a new word that means 'Founded in enlightenment and democratic values' then, and let's use that word instead. Doesn't change the discussion at all.

 

[Gethelred]

Was I wrong about any of those things?

Was I derogatory in those posts you quoted?

It's rapidly becoming a major issue in Europe now, to the point that even members of those parties who supported the move to bring these refugees in are now starting to say they were wrong

Hang on a minute.

You said this:

Well, is it a race?

Have I been racist towards Arabs, Asians, etc in this thread?

I'm not debating you on whether you're right/wrong, because that's not interesting to me. What I find interesting is your attempts to reframe a barely concealed Great Replacement argument into supposedly non-racist rhetoric.

You complained that you were being attacked, being called racist; that you'd never depicted Islam as a race. Upon pointing out that you have absolutely treated Islam as a singular, ubiquitous glob of suck, you then try to reframe the argument as 'I'm not wrong'.

I'd have thought behaving in a racist way is wrong, but you do you.

 

[sr36]

Every concept is, yet. It's associated with the root meaning of the word. That doesn't make them untrue. But the argument "That concept associated with culture and society is made up," literally means nothing. Because of course it is.
Choose a new word that means 'Founded in enlightenment and democratic values' then, and let's use that word instead. Doesn't change the discussion at all.

Well it does, as central to the discussion is the concept that people who come from countries which aren't currently liberal democracies are less inclined to have children that acquire democratic values. The discussion stems from the idea that if we end up with "too many" Muslims, or people who descend from countries that are not currently liberal democracies, then we will cease to be a liberal democracy.


In terms of concepts - the word is describing something - if what it is describing actually exists - the concept isn't made up.

 

[bzparkes]

Hang on a minute.

You said this:

I'm not debating you on whether you're right/wrong, because that's not interesting to me. What I find interesting is your attempts to reframe a barely concealed Great Replacement argument into supposedly non-racist rhetoric.

You complained that you were being attacked, being called racist; that you'd never depicted Islam as a race. Upon pointing out that you have absolutely treated Islam as a singular, ubiquitous glob of suck, you then try to reframe the argument as 'I'm not wrong'.

I'd have thought behaving in a racist way is wrong, but you do you.

Great replacement theory would imply that someone is behind all this. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think I've said this.

It's true that many have come from being displace by catastrophe/war in their own country. Of course they'll seek refuge somewhere.

There have been multiple incidents of Russia trying to force illegals from Muslim countries across the Polish border recently via Belarus, but obviously this isn't the same thing.

I'm also failing to understand why people equate being critical of a religious group = racism.
For a dose of whataboutism, if I had the exact same criticisms of Christians(which I absolutely would in the same circumstances), would you then still call me a racist?