Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today.... part 2

[Chief]

Reminder:

This isn't the Israel/Hamas thread.

Go to the Israel/Hamas thread if you want to talk about that.

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

Part I: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack.1371828/page-47#post-81443295 Thread Rules: Alright. I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have...

www.bigfooty.com

Thanks.

 

[Gralin]

Why are you evading the question? You were the one that made the claim, I am acknowledging I havent read or watched every single piece of Australian media on the subject to know if what you are saying is true or not. I just want to know what you saw that made you say that.

If you've been watching the coverage or Payman over the last two weeks or the coverage of Israel and Palestine over the last 9 months and you can't see dogwhistiling in the media against Muslims then me pointing it out to you isn't going to do much

especially when the article from the ABC is being discussed and you seem to think its a bad look for Faruqi and not the ABC

Is that what I said? The poor moment is for her to refuse to engage with a question about whether an organisation she acknowledges is a terrorist group should be dismantled. Her answer can acknowledge the Palestinians right to self determination and still say Hamas should be dismantled.

Please explain to me how you can have a position of Palestinian self determination that involves you deciding what to do in Palestine

Here is an example of one possible way you can do that: Yes, Hamas should be dismantled as they are a terrorist organisation. The people of Palestine should be the ones who are responsible for dismantling Hamas, not Israel or their western allies.

No this is you saying you have decided what the Palestinian people should do, this is not self determination

again this is all about what you want

 

[faible]

Why are you evading the question? You were the one that made the claim, I am acknowledging I havent read or watched every single piece of Australian media on the subject to know if what you are saying is true or not. I just want to know what you saw that made you say that.

Is that what I said? The poor moment is for her to refuse to engage with a question about whether an organisation she acknowledges is a terrorist group should be dismantled. Her answer can acknowledge the Palestinians right to self determination and still say Hamas should be dismantled.

Here is an example of one possible way you can do that: Yes, Hamas should be dismantled as they are a terrorist organisation. The Palestinian people should be the ones who are responsible for dismantling Hamas, not Israel or their western allies.

Why did the interviewer refuse to engage on her comment about the inaction of the Government on the actions of Israel? Funny how it's one way traffic.

'but do you condemn Hamas?'

'yes, Hamas is a terrorist organisation'

'here's a hypothetical, you've condemned Hamas but condemn it harder'

'how about we talk about what's really happening right now?'

'no, why won't you condemn Hamas?'

 

[Gralin]

A bit hard to keep up when you're spewing nonsense.

Could you elaborate a bit further?

yes the media is being racist and you're being racist and its a nice little circle that warms Peter Dutton's heart

 

[Jazny]

It's all pretty congruous, the only reason you're finding it confusing I assume, is because you want every single conversation around this issue to result in '<someone external> needs to remove Hamas' because that then supports the <someone external> becoming 'Israel needs to remove Hamas' which AFAIK is your fundamental view on this situation? Happy for you to correct that view if it's not an accurate representation.

OMG how dare you ask me questions about my views!! Oh wait, I can actually stand by my views... What I meant to say is yes I do believe that after October 7th and the continued threat of more atrocities Israel has the right to defend itself by dismantling Hamas who are clearly a terrorist organisation of the worst kind. They still have to abide by International Humanitarian Law, and I don't know that going to war was the best way to achieve it. But I believe the goal of dismantling Hamas is completely justified.

 

[Jazny]

Why did the interviewer refuse to engage on her comment about the inaction of the Government on the actions of Israel? Funny how it's one way traffic.

Because it wasn't answering his question... The interviewee doesn't pick which questions they get to answer, unless you just want all interviewers to be giving the most softball interviews ever.

 

[Gralin]

OMG how dare you ask me questions about my views!! Oh wait, I can actually stand by my views... What I meant to say is yes I do believe that after October 7th and the continued threat of more atrocities Israel has the right to defend itself by dismantling Hamas who are clearly a terrorist organisation of the worst kind. They still have to abide by International Humanitarian Law, and I don't know that going to war was the best way to achieve it. But I believe the goal of dismantling Hamas is completely justified.

you could have just said yes

also what Israel is doing is not defending itself

also Palestinians have a right to defend themselves against what Israel is doing

also a war suggests two states with armies

also the Israel govenment has committed more atrocities than Hamas and killed significantly more civilians

so good for you for being staunchly pro genocide

 

[Gralin]

Because it wasn't answering his question... The interviewee doesn't pick which questions they get to answer, unless you just want all interviewers to be giving the most softball interviews ever.

there is no rule that says the questions are sacred but you're super zionist on this so there is also no point continuing to engage with you

 

[smish]

yes the media is being racist and you're being racist and its a nice little circle that warms Peter Dutton's heart

Rubbish answer, as expected.

 

[Gralin]

Rubbish answer, as expected.

honest answer
your original post was racist in response to the ABC's racism

 

[Jazny]

Please explain to me how you can have a position of Palestinian self determination that involves you deciding what to do in Palestine

No problem. The exact same way I can believe Americans have the right of self determination but still argue the people of America shouldn't vote in the insurrectionist Trump lunatic.

 

[Gralin]

No problem. The exact same way I can believe Americans have the right of self determination but still argue the people of America shouldn't vote in the insurrectionist Trump lunatic.

lol

back on ignore you go

 

[Jazny]

lol

back on ignore you go

I will miss all your question dodging

 

[Carringbush2010]

Are you shocked? She hates Australia.

Interesting view point, what makes you think she 'hates' Australia, or any muslim for that matter?

 

[faible]

edit: Appreciate you at least tried to answer.

the continued threat of more atrocities

Note: 'threat' of what Hamas might do vs the reality of what Israel are really doing.

Israel has the right to defend itself by dismantling Hamas

Do Palestinians have the right to defend themselves from Israel? Do they get to dismantle the Israeli Government for the atrocities it's committed against them?

They still have to abide by International Humanitarian Law

They aren't.

I believe the goal of dismantling Hamas is completely justified.

What about removing the conditions that lead to the rising up of groups like Hamas?

IMO it's not really about removing Hamas. It's just the excuse they're using for what they're doing.

Because it wasn't answering his question... The interviewee doesn't pick which questions they get to answer, unless you just want all interviewers to be giving the most softball interviews ever.

She did answer it.

She considers Hamas a terrorist group.
She believes in the Palestinians right to a state and self-determination.
She doesn't believe Western countries should be interfering.
She believes Palestinians should use that right to self-determination to ensure peace in the region.

She condemned Hamas. He wanted her to condemn it harder and was completely and utterly unwilling to discuss anything else. Like what Israel are doing, and what our Government isn't doing.

If no one knew any different, Hamas are the only party even involved in this whole thing. Palestinians are just weirdly dying somehow because Hamas I guess?

 

[10571z]

Interesting view point, what makes you think she 'hates' Australia, or any muslim for that matter?

Haven’t you heard we should be paying Pakistan reparations for their melting glaciers?

 

[Jazny]

She considers Hamas a terrorist group.

Good of her to acknowledge and comes close to answering the question, but doesn't answer the question.

She believes in the Palestinians right to a state and self-determination.

Doesn't answer the question.

She doesn't believe Western countries should be interfering.

Doesn't answer the question.

She believes Palestinians should use that right to self-determination to ensure peace in the region.

Doesn't answer the question.

 

[faible]

Good of her to acknowledge and comes close to answering the question, but doesn't answer the question.

Doesn't answer the question.

Doesn't answer the question.

Doesn't answer the question.

Do you not understand what believing in the right to self determination means?

 

[Carringbush2010]

Haven’t you heard we should be paying Pakistan reparations for their melting glaciers?

Is that what she said? If so, what you makes you think she hates Australia?

Or do you think she hates Australians? Which would be inconsistent, she's a member of parliament, which makes her Australian, that'd be a weird position to take.

 

[Jazny]

Do you not understand what believing in the right to self determination means?

Yes, can you explain how you think it answers the question.

 

[faible]

Yes, can you explain how you think it answers the question.

At this point you're either being deliberately obtuse, or are genuinely not as intelligent as I thought.

 

[Gralin]

No problem. The exact same way I can believe Americans have the right of self determination but still argue the people of America shouldn't vote in the insurrectionist Trump lunatic.

Yes and do you think our media would ask our politicians to comment on whether the American public should vote for Trump?

 

[Jazny]

At this point you're either being deliberately obtuse, or are genuinely not as intelligent as I thought.

Well I am not being obtuse, so maybe I am actually dumb. Can you just tell me how you think it answers the question the interviewer asked? Because to me "should Hamas be dismantled?" is not answered by "Palestinians have a right to a state and self-determination". I mean, I agree that Palestinians have that right, but I also think Hamas should be dismantled. Hamas themselves might agree that Palestinians have that right, but they would disagree that Hamas should not be dismantled. So it doesn't seem to answer the question, but feel free to show me how dumb I am being.

 

[faible]

Well I am not being obtuse, so maybe I am actually dumb. Can you just tell me how you think it answers the question the interviewer asked? Because to me "should Hamas be dismantled?" is not answered by "Palestinians have a right to a state and self-determination". I mean, I agree that Palestinians have that right, but I also think Hamas should be dismantled. Hamas themselves might agree that Palestinians have that right, but they would disagree that Hamas should not be dismantled. So it doesn't seem to answer the question, but feel free to show me how dumb I am being.

You can disagree with her position if you like, but it's not unclear or hard to understand what her position is. Especially when you consider that she very directly addressed that interviewer being more interested in trying to drag her in to a discussion around a remote hypothetical and being entirely unwilling to discuss the actual reality of what's going on right now and the Governments' lack of action of on.

She did answer it.

She considers Hamas a terrorist group.
She believes in the Palestinians right to a state and self-determination.
She doesn't believe Western countries should be interfering.
She believes Palestinians should use that right to self-determination to ensure peace in the region.

If you genuinely cannot understand what her position is, as distinct from simply disagreeing with her position, then I'm not sure anything anyone would say will clarify it for you.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Lot of claims of dog whistling (whatever that is) and racism going on in here, there's also claims that Faruqi 'hates' Australia, can anyone link evidence of these claims?

 

[10571z]

Lot of claims of dog whistling (whatever that is) and racism going on in here, there's also claims that Faruqi 'hates' Australia, can anyone link evidence of these claims?

Show me an example of here liking Australia.