Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today.... part 2

[Chief]

Reminder: This isn't the Israel/Hamas thread. Go to the Israel/Hamas thread if you want to talk about that. Thanks.

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

Part I: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack.1371828/page-47#post-81443295 Thread Rules: Alright. I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have...

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[10571z]

Britain is famous for colonisation which includes setting up courts, yeah?

They literally wrote the book on it.

So they shouldn't be able to act against it? is that what you are suggesting?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

So they shouldn't be able to act against it? is that what you are suggesting?

I'm saying it's part of the British identity to do such things.

 

[Gethelred]

Ah yes food is quite comparable to the identify of the country.

Food is intimately associated with culture, and one doesn't get to choose which parts of culture come with people who enter your country. You get the good with the bad.

No-one's forcing you to don a nun's habit or participate in an Opus Dei flagellation for your sins, and no-one's going to drag you to an Eid celebration or a Sharia council against your will.

I also think England has their own issues regarding race, class and culture, and should avoid throwing all too many stones. There's every reason to suspect that immigrants setting up their own extra jurisdictional arrangements fell below the notice of the government through dismissal, and that's certainly rather suggestive of an attitude towards immigrants that is undesirable.

 

[10571z]

Food is intimately associated with culture, and one doesn't get to choose which parts of culture come with people who enter your country. You get the good with the bad.

No-one's forcing you to don a nun's habit or participate in an Opus Dei flagellation for your sins, and no-one's going to drag you to an Eid celebration or a Sharia council against your will.

I also think England has their own issues regarding race, class and culture, and should avoid throwing all too many stones. There's every reason to suspect that immigrants setting up their own extra jurisdictional arrangements fell below the notice of the government through dismissal, and that's certainly rather suggestive of an attitude towards immigrants that is undesirable.

Just because I won’t be dragged into a sharia council doesn’t mean someone who doesn’t want to be there won’t. Most likely a women.

 

[10571z]

Either way we’ll see this play out in Europe and give a clear indication of what the future holds. My guess is we see far right politicians take over

 

[Gethelred]

Just because I won’t be dragged into a sharia council doesn’t mean someone who doesn’t want to be there won’t. Most likely a women.

These women have their own agency, and - because they are in Britain - have their own choices. I have tremendous sympathy for them - and there are an awful lot of problems with the way Islamic law treats married women, namely how they are trapped in marriage unless they can pay back their dower - but they need to want to leave, both their partners and their religion. I'm not going to make that choice for them.

I'm unwilling to say I know unequivocally better than them, not without discussing it with them individually.

 

[Carringbush2010]

... the point of multiculturalism is the celebration of difference, not the erasure of it.

^ This!

We'd as a nation would be at the very least isolationist without it, and much much poorer, both economically and intellectually if not for it.

I rarely agree with you Gethy, but on this point, hammer, nail, head.

And this is what (I believe and see in real life at least) society by and large are aiming for.

If this isn't a poster pin up for liberalism (as you'd know, or should know, I'm a committed liberal), then I don't know what is.

 

[Carringbush2010]

We need to move past the limitations of identity politics imo.

Agreed!

 

[sr36]

Just because I won’t be dragged into a sharia council doesn’t mean someone who doesn’t want to be there won’t. Most likely a women.

So to sum it up you're advocating banning entry to Islamic women from countries with Sharia law in order to protect Islamic women in case Shariah law comes to Australia?

 

[10571z]

So to sum it up you're advocating banning entry to Islamic women from countries with Sharia law in order to protect Islamic women in case Shariah law comes to Australia?

No, im advocating against a religion running their own courts in a democratic society they integrate to. Women are an example of a group who may have unjust decisions made against them and not have the power to stand up against it due to their religions beliefs. Its not about protecting women specifically, its about protecting the laws of the country.

 

[Gough]

No, im advocating against a religion running their own courts in a democratic society they integrate to. Women are an example of a group who may have unjust decisions made against them and not have the power to stand up against it due to their religions beliefs. Its not about protecting women specifically, its about protecting the laws of the country.

Why are people asked to swear to God in our courts of law?

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Russia invades country.

US nominates rapist and fascist.

Man kills 55 people in mosque.

Kids shoot up high schools with tacit support from activists.

12,000 gun deaths in US.

Muslim goes crazy.

Evolved: bumps thread


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[10571z]

Why are people asked to swear to God in our courts of law?

An old tradition to affirm their commitment to tell the truth....

 

[Gough]

An old tradition to affirm their commitment to tell the truth....

Why bring god into it at all and why does it have to be a Christian God, why not swear to Ganesh?

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

No, im advocating against a religion running their own courts in a democratic society they integrate to. Women are an example of a group who may have unjust decisions made against them and not have the power to stand up against it due to their religions beliefs. Its not about protecting women specifically, its about protecting the laws of the country.

I agree with you. We should forcibly expel all those associated with the Christian right from all politics, and abolish all church counselling.


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[10571z]

Why bring god into it at all and why does it have to be a Christian God, why not swear to Ganesh?

God can be Ganesh to you...

The majority of Muslim marriages in the UK aren't even recognized by the UK government and you they have their own Sharia courts dictating divorce terms. What could possibly go wrong.

 

[sr36]

No, im advocating against a religion running their own courts in a democratic society they integrate to. Women are an example of a group who may have unjust decisions made against them and not have the power to stand up against it due to their religions beliefs. Its not about protecting women specifically, its about protecting the laws of the country.

Aren't they just like the Catholic "courts" that preside over catholic annulments?

 

[10571z]

Aren't they just like the Catholic "courts" that preside over catholic annulments?

Well no, because their marriages are recognized by the state for one.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Well no, because their marriages are recognized by the state for one.

Why don't we just ban marriages? People could still live together, and everyone would save money on those silly ceremonies.

 

[sr36]

Well no, because their marriages are recognized by the state for one.

You actually don't know what you're talking about. All religions and different cultures have different marriage laws to civil marriage laws. You can marry in a Christian church, another country, an Aboriginal community, etc ... without getting it recognised as a civil marriage - same with an islamic marriage - likewise both islamic and Christian marriages can get recognised if all the boxes are ticked and paperwork done.

You might as well be carrying on about people flying off to Bali or Thailand for their wedding. And don't get me started on these outrageous unofficial marriage renewal ceremonies, or worse still, people living in sin.

 

[10571z]

You actually don't know what you're talking about. All religions and different cultures have different marriage laws to civil marriage laws. You can marry in a Christian church, another country, an Aboriginal community, etc ... without getting it recognised as a civil marriage - same with an islamic marriage - likewise both islamic and Christian marriages can get recognised if all the boxes are ticked and paperwork done.

Im well aware what im talking about. The majority of Islamic marriages aren't recognized in the UK and they are quite happy running a parallel system. This forfeits democratic rights for the women they are privy to under UK law.

 

[sr36]

Im well aware what im talking about. The majority of Islamic marriages aren't recognized in the UK and they are quite happy running a parallel system. This forfeits democratic rights for the women they are privy to under UK law.

Yes and don't get me started on couples "living in sin" without any ritual at all where women have assumedly also forfeited their democratic rights - under your strange interpretation ...

 

[CM86]

The Terrorism Files - 2015, 2016

https://www.rt.com/uk/328366-uk-sharia-court-law/ In other words, Muslim families are different, Common Law doesnt say anything about lets say 4 brides, or marriage to an underaged woman (which is still happening in the UK). What is the parallel law??? Are you talking about wills, and...

www.bigfooty.com

Same lies, same fearmongering, same reasons.

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May 24, 2016​

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**** me.​

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It's not a separate legal system... it's not a parallel legal system...​

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​

Yes, it's discriminatory, and I'd rather it not exist. But, it's not like it's the only mediation that discriminates...​

​

It might be the worst, but if you want to change the laws on how mediation is done, then do it across the board...​

​

​

It is not their own justice system... They are not an authority unto themselves... if they break the law, they've still broken the damn law.​

​

​

​

I don't agree with sharia courts or sharia law. But I also don't agree with the fear mongering from people saying that these Muslims are creating their own legal system, and that it already has powers and runs parallel to western laws.​

Because the implication is that it will soon overtake our laws, and we will live under Sharia law... which will never happen here or in Britain.​

​

​

We will never go to Sharia courts, unless we choose to.​

​

Now, if the concern is that people are being taken advantage of, then yes, let's do something.​

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But, no victim is going to come to us and ask for help, if we pursue this fear and anger towards the Muslim people.​

 

[10571z]

View attachment 2193692

The Terrorism Files - 2015, 2016

https://www.rt.com/uk/328366-uk-sharia-court-law/ In other words, Muslim families are different, Common Law doesnt say anything about lets say 4 brides, or marriage to an underaged woman (which is still happening in the UK). What is the parallel law??? Are you talking about wills, and...

www.bigfooty.com

Same lies, same fearmongering, same reasons.

​

May 24, 2016​

​

**** me.​

​

It's not a separate legal system... it's not a parallel legal system...​

​

​

Yes, it's discriminatory, and I'd rather it not exist. But, it's not like it's the only mediation that discriminates...​

​

It might be the worst, but if you want to change the laws on how mediation is done, then do it across the board...​

​

​

It is not their own justice system... They are not an authority unto themselves... if they break the law, they've still broken the damn law.​

​

​

​

I don't agree with sharia courts or sharia law. But I also don't agree with the fear mongering from people saying that these Muslims are creating their own legal system, and that it already has powers and runs parallel to western laws.​

Because the implication is that it will soon overtake our laws, and we will live under Sharia law... which will never happen here or in Britain.​

​

​

We will never go to Sharia courts, unless we choose to.​

​

Now, if the concern is that people are being taken advantage of, then yes, let's do something.​

​

But, no victim is going to come to us and ask for help, if we pursue this fear and anger towards the Muslim people.​

You have said it yourself. You'd rather it not exist.. So why not ban it then.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

These threads have been going for so long all the bullshit has been disproven.


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