Why we should enter the PSD

[All Australian]

Excellent thread AA

Is pretty much how we got Jamison.

Cheers igt22265, unfortunately it appears it won't happen. Ericpascoe is usually on the money.

 

[Blue Dimension]

If we were going to do it we should do it with Johnson and Wiggins. In all due respect, it's not like anyone else is going to pick them up.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Apparantly we tried to offload Johnson - but it didnt work out.

 

[mediumsizered]

i think most would agree that players like c.johnson,wiggins,fisher and anderson either wont make it or not upto afl level so the chance to in carltons case take 3-4 kpf in the psd or rookie draft would be a no brainer. now im not a football manager or a guru by any stretch but having for example.

panos /temel...............1 you would definately get
tighe / patrick / hill / dare............ another one of these would fall through to 2nd pick
with perhaps either taking another untried or maybe a
simpson/thorp type

120 k is not what carlton would be worried about, probably more that they dont want to be seen to be throwing players out that are still contracted

None of the youngsters you have nominated are guaranteed to make it at AFL level, in fact the 16 AFL clubs have made it clear they don't highly rate any of these players, hence why they were overlooked in a relatively weak draft.

The suggestion that we delist players who have at least performed at AFL level (Fisher 39 goals in 2007, 25 in 2008, Anderson a match-saving mark in front of Jonathan Brown & some promising performances at AFL level & Wiggins 4 goals in his 100th game against a Top 4 side) for players who missed being drafted for a reason, is just ridiculous.

We will be participating in the rookie draft & IMO it is much better to take a risk on a player as a rookie, rather than delisting a player/s who have performed at AFL level for the sake of participating in the PSD to draft someone who may never perform at AFL level. As I said previously, there is not a Liam Jurrah or an Eddie Betts secretly lurking out there, because if there was, we would already have flagged our intention to participate in the PSD.

Of course the money is not the reason why we wouldn't delist a number of contracted players, it is just poor business to be paying those for which you are receiving no return. We had to do it to facilitate Fev's trade & we may also be doing it if Cloke gets picked up by Port or Hawthorn, but I don't see any logic in turning around & delisting more contracted players (those with AFL ready bodies) for kids who have been identified as not worthy of selection in a weaker ND.

 

[Azul]

Sidenote... reckon you guys could be jumping the gun on Anderson. Really took some strides forward in 09 in terms of development of his game (especially at the end of the year). Didn't really get much of a chance to show it at senior level but you could see he was playing some really good footy for the Bullants.

The point is he couldn't break into the Carlton side except for injuries and when he did he was outclassed by Robertson. He's spent 3 years on the list for little reward...

 

[Azul]

If we were to delist a Fisher, Wiggins, Johnson etc, we could well end up paying their wage & getting no value for this. I don't think it is a good idea to be paying money to players from whom you are getting no return.

Who said anything about getting no return?

The intention here is to delist one or more of our remaining list cloggers so we can get some fresh talent into the place. That in itself is its own reward if there's the slightest chance that PSD draftee turns into a 100 game player.

Second, the idea is to redraft said senior listed players with picks 47 and 63 in the rookie draft. We pay their original salary, the difference being we've moved up the draft order.

Now if someone did happen to draft a Cloke or a Johnson etc before we redraft then they've gone to a happier place and will no doubt get more senior opportunities that if we'd kept them on our list. Surely it's what's best for the player, no? If You Love Somebody Set Them Free.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained but consider that in a 'weak draft' picks in the PSD are more likely to work out than 47 and 63 in the RD.

 

[THE_GUN]

None of the youngsters you have nominated are guaranteed to make it at AFL level, in fact the 16 AFL clubs have made it clear they don't highly rate any of these players, hence why they were overlooked in a relatively weak draft.

The suggestion that we delist players who have at least performed at AFL level (Fisher 39 goals in 2007, 25 in 2008, Anderson a match-saving mark in front of Jonathan Brown & some promising performances at AFL level & Wiggins 4 goals in his 100th game against a Top 4 side) for players who missed being drafted for a reason, is just ridiculous.

We will be participating in the rookie draft & IMO it is much better to take a risk on a player as a rookie, rather than delisting a player/s who have performed at AFL level for the sake of participating in the PSD to draft someone who may never perform at AFL level. As I said previously, there is not a Liam Jurrah or an Eddie Betts secretly lurking out there, because if there was, we would already have flagged our intention to participate in the PSD.

Of course the money is not the reason why we wouldn't delist a number of contracted players, it is just poor business to be paying those for which you are receiving no return. We had to do it to facilitate Fev's trade & we may also be doing it if Cloke gets picked up by Port or Hawthorn, but I don't see any logic in turning around & delisting more contracted players (those with AFL ready bodies) for kids who have been identified as not worthy of selection in a weaker ND.

16 clubs have passed on these players but that doesnt mean that these players will be no good, there are many instances where players have been overlooked in the past & gone on to become very very good players.

on your second note about fisher , wiggins etc
these players no longer have a place on your list & will not be playing in carltons next flag by holding onto players which are run of the mill you are taking away your chance to find a diamond in the rough type of player.
just to use panos as an example with the correct afl club training regime & facilities you could possibly improve his agility,speed,endurance,stamina
he already is a very good kick thats a natural foward thats 192-193 cm (taller than fev) you could end up with a ff that could average 3 goals a game fisher will never be that player and wont improve anymore panos has a huge upside at 18yo.

you say that there isnt another betts or jarrah waiting in the psd thats just a really silly statement to make if the teams knew what was waiting instore for these players before their draft they would of been taken in the nd...............nobody knows what these players will become

in hinsight now would you take players like trent knobel,kent kingley,aron fiora when you have a foley or thursfield waiting untill the psd or rookie draft......no

the point i make is with players like c.j,wiggins,fisher you know what they can do & its not good enough to play in a flag but with players like
panos,temel,ahchee,tighe,dare etc etc you might just find a hidden gem

theres a very very good chance panos could end up a better player than black,carlisle,talia,fitspatrick,griffiths or even butcher.

fisher will never be any better than what he has been & its not good enough.

 

[Sin City]

Pretty good posting The Gun, but why are so quick to write Wiggins off. He might be unfashionable, but the coach loves him for his courage and attitude, and the example he sets for his team mates. He still has a lot to offer the team. Last time he played you guys he had 21 possessions, 8 tackles, 10 marks and 2 goals.

 

[Jamie007]

The thing is, if we put Wiggins and say Johnson on the Rookie list, next year when we have to delist 3 off our main list, we cant include them.. Therefore we have to make sure there is 3 on our main list still that we can delist next year.. We are forced to make atleast 3 changes to our primary list each year.. This does not include rookies.. Therefore wiggo and Johnson would be excluded..

 

[Azul]

The thing is, if we put Wiggins and say Johnson on the Rookie list, next year when we have to delist 3 off our main list, we cant include them.. Therefore we have to make sure there is 3 on our main list still that we can delist next year.. We are forced to make atleast 3 changes to our primary list each year.. This does not include rookies.. Therefore wiggo and Johnson would be excluded..

So we're less than 3 picks away from the perfect list?

Most could name half a dozen players whose careers are in the balance.

 

[Aphrodite]

So we're less than 3 picks away from the perfect list?

Most could name half a dozen players whose careers are in the balance.

I can name 4, you can add the other 2

No: 9
No: 14
No: 26
No: 34

 

[Blue Dimension]

I can name 4, you can add the other 2

No: 9
No: 14
No: 26
No: 34

Possibly...

No. 10

 

[Azul]

I can name 4, you can add the other 2

Well I think 29 and 33 will need big seasons to justify new contracts with pressure from young guns. 10 would also want to get through the season injury free.

Harsh on the old blokes, perhaps. But with the arrival of Brock and with Yarran, Grigg, Browne, Garlett and Robinson all 21 or younger looking to cement spots in the team the veterans may start to spend more and more time at the 'ants.

 

[Aphrodite]

Well I think 29 and 33 will need big seasons to justify new contracts with pressure from young guns. 10 would also want to get through the season injury free.

Harsh on the old blokes, perhaps. But with the arrival of Brock and with Yarran, Grigg, Browne, Garlett and Robinson all 21 or younger looking to cement spots in the team the veterans may start to spend more and more time at the 'ants.

Maybe so Azul, but AFL is a huge business these days & we are in the business of being a very successful club & adding to our 16 flags.

Those players I mentioned above along with No:10 & possibly 29 & 33, unfortunately will not be a part of NO: 17.

We have a very exciting young list & they will be pushing themselves to secure a spot in the Seniors.

 

[Bluedude]

Ive been a blues fans from the sixties, and Im a still a young bloke
(early 40) my wife is in her 20's. Point being I reckon Ive seen 8 premeirships.
Except for 95, I was at every one at the good old G.
Still remember the crowd noise at the first bounce, as a baby and being
scaared as anything.

Anyhoo I digress and the mods here tend to just erase me.
I saw, in person jezza take that mark over jenkins..
I also was there when that scumbag kink clifff hangered
jezza... Yeah real fair play you colliwobblers ???
That GF was awesome, jezza hobbled back, we had
percy jones and harmesy !!!
So anyone who addresses me, I was there !!
(I only say this as my posts keep dissapearing)
I have a huge side to Carltons history, bigger than
Elliot and pratt..For those old enough to remember,
I had the box seat at every AVCO sponsered game...

I love Carlton with a passion and hope you dont keep
deleting my posts... your loss....

 

[Bluedude]

Also saw harmes knock it back in, was maybe 20 metres away

 

[THE_GUN]

there are always players that need to be upgraded & every year you need to churn over your list by around 20%
if a player gas been on the list 5 years you will have a very good indication of what their capacity is. just for argument sake i will use some carlton players & dont abuse me for it its just an opinion !

setanta..........just filling up space untill a better player takes his place but if you only take 2 players his size a year & they take 3 years to develope it could take 10 years before you find a replacement or upgrade

personally i would either trade or delist 8-11 players every year from the main list & rookie list combined.

there are only 6-10 untradeable players in each team the rest will have a price on their head.

example i know a few carlton supporters will have a go at me but a player like walker or russell if there was a late 2nd early 3rd rounder offered carlton would be mad not to take it.
there are no longer any room in afl for sentiment..........its all about winning doesnt matter if your richmond , carlton,geelong or hawthorn
we support the team not the player.

 

[Bluedude]

If my post reamins, I love Brett Ratten, as you all did, I felt all hope died
the day he did that shoulder. But since the 60;s I found myself questionomg
what they are doing ?? 22 midfileders ??

Ratts you are my hero, prove my doubrtful mind wrong.....
You threw away our modern day jezza

I hate to think of you as one of these coaches that get extensions
for developement. We were in the game this year. You are true blue...

 

[Silvagnis]

We'd have to delist either because we were sure we could our handson the man we wanted.

I'd hate to delist Fisher, Wiggins or Johnson to end up with Liam Patrick who is another flavour of the month player on BF.

Or someone we weren't targeting.

I'd rather keep Johnson, Wiggins and Fisher on the list as emergencies.

A hail mary shot in what looks like a poor PSD is a shot in the dark.

/double cliche

I can't see it happening.

If you delist a player to put him on your mature rookie list, can you select him for regular senior footy if he's in form?

Or do you have to wait for an injury?

 

[Silvagnis]

Dip shit...

setanta..........just filling up space untill a better player takes his place but if you only take 2 players his size a year & they take 3 years to develope it could take 10 years before you find a replacement or upgrade

example i know a few carlton supporters will have a go at me but a player like walker or russell if there was a late 2nd early 3rd rounder offered carlton would be mad not to take it.

 

[THE_GUN]

^^^^ how old is he , how long has he been on the list & how much improvement left in him thats what you need to ask yourself.

 

[mediumsizered]

The intention here is to delist one or more of our remaining list cloggers so we can get some fresh talent into the place. That in itself is its own reward if there's the slightest chance that PSD draftee turns into a 100 game player.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained but consider that in a 'weak draft' picks in the PSD are more likely to work out than 47 and 63 in the RD.

In other words delist a list clogger or 2 to draft another list clogger or 2. Nowadays you are very rarely going to get a 100 game player out of the PSD (Eddie Betts will get there, but McLaren, Ackland, Johnson didn't/won't) unless, like Melbourne with Jurrah, you have actually already identified a player for your PSD pick who is very talented, but has mostly escaped the gaze of other recruiters.

In recent seasons the rookie draft has thrown up Andrew Lovett (Pick 42), Josh Drummond (Pick 47), Ryan Crowley (Pick 39), Matt Priddis (Pick 31), Jarrod Harbrow (Pick 27), Matt Campbell (Pick 34), Robert Eddy (Pick 39), who managed 10 games this season with the top of the ladder Saints, Cruize Garlett (Pick 30), who has now been promoted to North's senior list, Shane Mumford (Pick 57) & even our own Jamo was taken at Pick 17 in the rookie draft.

By using the rookie draft you get the best of both worlds. A few extra bites of the 'cherry' with youngsters you are uncertain about, with minimal commitment/cost, whilst being able to keep depth players on your list.

I just don't understand this sudden crazy desire to have a PSD pick just because the Gold Coast have the first 5 picks in the rookie draft. The club has determined there is no current unlisted player worthy of pursuing in the PSD, so we go into the rookie draft & see what happens. We don't lose anything, because realistically no-one knows which player/s in the rookie draft are going to measure up at AFL level. It could be those taken early, or it could be those taken later, such as those players identified above. Only in the ND can you have any confidence that the players taken early will more than likely outdo those players taken later, not the rookie draft.

 

[XXX KINGS]

there are always players that need to be upgraded & every year you need to churn over your list by around 20%
if a player gas been on the list 5 years you will have a very good indication of what their capacity is. just for argument sake i will use some carlton players & dont abuse me for it its just an opinion !

setanta..........just filling up space untill a better player takes his place but if you only take 2 players his size a year & they take 3 years to develope it could take 10 years before you find a replacement or upgrade

personally i would either trade or delist 8-11 players every year from the main list & rookie list combined.

there are only 6-10 untradeable players in each team the rest will have a price on their head.

example i know a few carlton supporters will have a go at me but a player like walker or russell if there was a late 2nd early 3rd rounder offered carlton would be mad not to take it.
there are no longer any room in afl for sentiment..........its all about winning doesnt matter if your richmond , carlton,geelong or hawthorn
we support the team not the player.

You reckon teams should delist 8-11 players every single season???
HAHAHAHAHHA

Maybe if you barrack for Richmond you should be thinking like that but otherwise I'd think most teams would prefer to have some sort of stability going from season to season...

You can bag Setanta all you like but the fact is that he has improved every year he has been on our list. Length of time he has spent on our list really doesn't factor in the same for a guy in his situation given his background and he's hardly old (26?). If he doesn't cement his spot this year he'll probably get the chop but he deserves to be afforded the chance given what he showed this year before the blood clots returned in his leg.

We could have delisted all the guys on our list that won't be there when we're a premiership chance next but I'd rather space it out a bit seeing that guys like Wiggins and Fisher can be called on for depth and they allow us to ensure that the quota of delistees will be met next year, saving us from getting rid of guys we actually want to keep. You can't delist them all in one year, especially given the lack of depth in this year's draft. It's not like we are lacking for good young prospects.

In repsonse to trading Russell or Walker for a third round pick...
I'm sure a similar offer for Tambling would make your eyes water
Did you actually watch a game Russell played in the second half of last year?
You do realise he finished sixth in our best and fairest in a team that played finals?
It might just be me but I'm getting the vibe that you have no idea what you're talking about...

I think Carlton will be just fine.

Good luck to the Tigers in '10.

 

[Sin City]

example i know a few carlton supporters will have a go at me but a player like walker or russell if there was a late 2nd early 3rd rounder offered carlton would be mad not to take it.

Are you out of your mind? Getting rid of established, talented players for another go in the lottery?