Will Neil Craig ever get a clue?

[crow4life]

Neil the other 15 clubs have moved on and your game plan of the past 5 years has been worked out.Speed and precision kicking is ripping your zone to pieces and your players are getting sick of watching the opposition kick easy goals time and time again.
It looks to me that NC's message is starting to wear pretty thin with the players and the effort tonight would suggest as much. Totally lacking spirit and desire. Our contested ball is pathetic and the lack of effort is alarming for a side that has prided itself on being competitive.
We have had 8 weeks of playing to NC's gameplan this season and blind freddy can see it aint working.How about we go man on man at least once this season to just give the players a chance to compete with an oponent one on one.
The game has changed this season and now has become a game of speed by carrying the footy and being precise with foot and hand skills to combat teams zoning tactics. For this new approach to work effetively you have to be prepared to take the game on and be advetureous and take risks.The AFC is too defence orriented and needs to be far more creative. Our lack of speed is telling at the moment and how you would like to be a forward in our side .
If NC can't find a way for us to be cometitive for the rest of the season I reckon he will walk at seasons end.Time for the suits to start looking around for a suitable replacment ---- perhaps a premiership coach who will be available next season and may just need to be convinced his future lies here in Adelaide and not in the US.

 

[King Elvis]

Gameplan is irrelevant when half of your team can't be bothered putting in anything more than a token effort.

 

[King Elvis]

Just something I've been thinking about -

We started switching play to beat the zone, and it worked for a while.

But when we did it, teams were playing a zone effectively over the entire field, so we'd switch and then kick OVER it.

Now, it seems as though a lot of teams are playing a zone in their defensive half only; basically flooding it with ~16 players and then zoning off...

Which means switching play is useless, because the forward line is so congested it doesn't matter which side you use...

Thoughts?

(cliffs; full-field zone has been replaced by defensive half zone; switching isn't as useful as a result.)

 

[tiggsy]

When three quarters of your team are rookies, players with less than 20 games or players coming off an interrupted prep I think your game plan becomes irrelevant. Of course it would take a brain surgeon to work that out and I am (admittedly) smarter than the average supporter. As such, I forgive all the people who just think that suddenly the gameplan doesn't work.

 

[cmndstab]

Gameplan is irrelevant when half of your team can't be bothered putting in anything more than a token effort.

This is it in a nutshell. Saying that opposition sides have worked out our gameplan is missing the point totally - we are not actually playing our own gameplan. There is no way that the gameplan is to simply hold on to the ball in the backlines and switch incessently, refusing to kick to a contest in even the most desperate of circumstances. That is a lack of confidence, a lack of care.

I went to preseason training a number of times this summer, I watched them practice the kick-outs. They'd practise a huddle, then they'd go a box structure, then they'd go for the long kick to the boundary, etc. What happened to that? Every time Jaensch had to kick the ball in the camera showed that absolutely no movement what occurring upfield! That's not a gameplan! There is no way the gameplan is "when we are kicking the ball out, stand still next to your man and refuse to provide an option". Even the most inept players can just start running in random directions in the hope that a hole will open up and give Jaensch something to kick to. Instead, we did absolutely nothing.


In terms of match-day coaching, there was nothing more Craig could have done today. The question is, are the players putting up such pathetically minimal effort because they've been overcoached, or because they just don't care anymore? Or is it just because of the lack of fitness brought out by the blackest summer we've seen since the Crows started in terms of injuries.

Either way, I'm sick to death of it. Petrenko comes in and looks like he wants the ball. Dangerfield looks like he wants the ball. Cook looks like he wants the ball. Jaensch looks like he wants the ball. Why do the young guys look like the leaders out there, while supremely talented players like Vince look like they'd rather the ball didn't come in their area at all? God it's frustrating.

 

[Macca19]

Thats the thing that was most dissapointing if I was a crow fan. The uninspiring, bored style of play. They just didnt look like they could be arsed being out there in the first half. Not something many would be used to seeing from Adelaide teams, especially under Craig.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

Neil the other 15 clubs have moved on and your game plan of the past 5 years has been worked out.Speed and precision kicking is ripping your zone to pieces and your players are getting sick of watching the opposition kick easy goals time and time again.
It looks to me that NC's message is starting to wear pretty thin with the players and the effort tonight would suggest as much. Totally lacking spirit and desire. Our contested ball is pathetic and the lack of effort is alarming for a side that has prided itself on being competitive.
We have had 8 weeks of playing to NC's gameplan this season and blind freddy can see it aint working.How about we go man on man at least once this season to just give the players a chance to compete with an oponent one on one.
The game has changed this season and now has become a game of speed by carrying the footy and being precise with foot and hand skills to combat teams zoning tactics. For this new approach to work effetively you have to be prepared to take the game on and be advetureous and take risks.The AFC is too defence orriented and needs to be far more creative. Our lack of speed is telling at the moment and how you would like to be a forward in our side .
If NC can't find a way for us to be cometitive for the rest of the season I reckon he will walk at seasons end.Time for the suits to start looking around for a suitable replacment ---- perhaps a premiership coach who will be available next season and may just need to be convinced his future lies here in Adelaide and not in the US.

patience and persistence

 

[remedi]

crow4life seems like he completely missed the point.

Neil Craig doesnt have a clue? What happen to this time last year? They went from a def mind frame to an attacking machine. This made them a force to be reckon with came September.

Now earlier this year, he used the same gameplan but our skill levels are just not up to it. (see the bulldog game). This is due injuries, interrupted pre-seasons and so on.

fastforward to today. No gameplan would of saved this game. Its pretty clear the players are not working hard enough. It seriously felt like north had double the players playing tonight. we applied no pressure what so ever.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

This is it in a nutshell. Saying that opposition sides have worked out our gameplan is missing the point totally - we are not actually playing our own gameplan. There is no way that the gameplan is to simply hold on to the ball in the backlines and switch incessently, refusing to kick to a contest in even the most desperate of circumstances. That is a lack of confidence, a lack of care.

I went to preseason training a number of times this summer, I watched them practice the kick-outs. They'd practise a huddle, then they'd go a box structure, then they'd go for the long kick to the boundary, etc. What happened to that? Every time Jaensch had to kick the ball in the camera showed that absolutely no movement what occurring upfield! That's not a gameplan! There is no way the gameplan is "when we are kicking the ball out, stand still next to your man and refuse to provide an option". Even the most inept players can just start running in random directions in the hope that a hole will open up and give Jaensch something to kick to. Instead, we did absolutely nothing.


In terms of match-day coaching, there was nothing more Craig could have done today. The question is, are the players putting up such pathetically minimal effort because they've been overcoached, or because they just don't care anymore? Or is it just because of the lack of fitness brought out by the blackest summer we've seen since the Crows started in terms of injuries.

Either way, I'm sick to death of it. Petrenko comes in and looks like he wants the ball. Dangerfield looks like he wants the ball. Cook looks like he wants the ball. Jaensch looks like he wants the ball. Why do the young guys look like the leaders out there, while supremely talented players like Vince look like they'd rather the ball didn't come in their area at all? God it's frustrating.

I agree that we are not playing the game on our own terms however IMO sides have defnitely worked out our game plan. The Sydney and Carlton games are examples, Carlton in particuar dropped Waite and Thorton and selected players that could run and carry and hit targets while Sydney played 4 x running HB's that continued to slice through our zone.

Also agree that there is no way the game plan is to hold the ball up and chip sideways, however as G Healy said tonight, why does Craigy persist with the players who continue to be at fault, lets be brutally honest here, it is obvious to all who the serial offenders are... Edwards, Doughty, Bock and Truck, this quartet struggle to execute a quick ball movement style of game

Also it is time to stop hiding behind fitness, it is not fitness, the game was lost from thhe 10 minute mark of the 1st qtr when we still had plenty of fuel in the tank and we have been able to run out games ove the past 2 weeks.

It is all about attitude and Im sick of this patience and persistance stance by the club. We are ranked last in the comp for contested ball, contested ball is all about attitude, hunger and desire, so this tells me that there is something very very wrong at the AFC.

It is time to forget about patience and persistence, the club need to open their pig headed eyes and recognise that there are issues and subsequently the status quo needs to be challenged on every front...

something has to give

 

[King Elvis]

The cupboard is pretty bare; hopefully we get a few more players back in the coming weeks and we're in a position to drop players like (as an example) Doughty, if he continues to move it sideways/slowly all the time.

 

[crowsarethebest]

****ing watch Craig's press conference. Was genuinely pissed and shattered at the performance I thought. What was even more damning was the fact that he didn't really change anything at 3 quarter time apart from telling the group that they weren't competitive enough. Out come the players after 3 quarter time and they rip the game apart, however they are too far behind due to the pathetic display in the first 3 quarters. Maybe, just maybe its not Craig's fault- maybe it's the players. Lots of the stuff displayed in the first 3 quarters wasn't game plan etc. Alot of it was lack of competitiveness, being 2nd to the ball, lack of intensity etc. Craigy said he did not change the game plan at all. If that's the case the players are ****** ********s.

 

[crowsarethebest]

His press conference is a must by the way. Never seen him have so much emotion. I feel sorry for him actually because he cops all the blame and the playing group gets none. Sure he can make a statement by dropping players etc. but who the **** can we get in? Griff? Gunston? McKernan? We've got no one, everyone's ****ing injured. The players are to blame IMO, they are ****ing pathetic. Vince, Tippett, Goodwin and Edwards. Vince- mate your good but your attitude stinks at the moment. Pathetic efforts, making pathetic mistakes and your one of the reasons we get ****ed on in the clearances. Can't handle a tag to save himself. And Kurt the 500k man, if you're going to serve this pathetic, uncompetitive, lazy pile of shit for the next few years of your contract you can **** off to the Gold Coast. The 'senior' players are getting outshone by the youngsters at the moment.

In Craigy's press conference when asked about finals he just said "forget about it, we're so far off". NC isn't dumb. He isn't deluded. IMO he's a very good coach, its just the playing group we're working with are crap. So get off his back and start putting pressure on the REAL culprits, guys which can directly control what happens in a match (the players). I mean, how the **** can we play so differently from the first 3 quarters in comparison to the last quarter?

 

[King Elvis]

****ing watch Craig's press conference. Was genuinely pissed and shattered at the performance I thought. What was even more damning was the fact that he didn't really change anything at 3 quarter time apart from telling the group that they weren't competitive enough. Out come the players after 3 quarter time and they rip the game apart, however they are too far behind due to the pathetic display in the first 3 quarters. Maybe, just maybe its not Craig's fault- maybe it's the players. Lots of the stuff displayed in the first 3 quarters wasn't game plan etc. Alot of it was lack of competitiveness, being 2nd to the ball, lack of intensity etc. Craigy said he did not change the game plan at all. If that's the case the players are ****** ********s.

One of the few times Craigy has looked genuinely helpless in the box - like it didn't matter what he'd try, it wasn't going to work - unless the players actually showed some spirit.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I am really torn with the decision on whether Craig continues to coach.

Sometimes even good coaches need to move on for the good of the club. Ayers was a perfect example. The players were sick of him, his message had worn thin, the feeling from the players was that we'd achieved all that we could under him. We had given it our best shot, we'd come up short and we would never ultimately challenge for a flag.

It seems we have reached this point with Craig. The players know it. And they are playing like it.

But what a poor reflection this is on the players. There was/is no good reason to remove either of the coaches. They had both won plenty of matches, they had both reached plenty of finals series. After 2004 the players needed a new voice. A new voice was the easy answer. Having to impress a new coach always has a short term positive effect on Player Effort.

And what a disgraceful implication that draws on the players.

The same as the team that wins the week after they have sacked their coach. Where the hell was that effort and that performance the week before? The fact that effort and performance are conditional shows EXACTLY why our group ultimately failed in 2005 and 2006. Changing Ayers for Craig made little real difference. Both are very similar coaches.

The fact that we improved our standing from 2004 to 2005 despite relying on the same group of players and a similar style of coach shows that Conditional, Occasional Trying is very prevalent at our football club. And it still is.

 

[smoovy]

Tonight wasn't a game plan issue.

However I have been critical of our movement forward. Especially our reluctance to kick it long down the middle. Now I understand this is a risky kick, but the reward is so much greater these days the way football is played. You win that ball and you are instantly behind the zone and is just about a guaranteed score. If we are worried about turning it over, well we shouldn't be, because we are ****ing it up anyway by any other method we are using to go forward.

 

[Allefgib]

I am really torn with the decision on whether Craig continues to coach.

Sometimes even good coaches need to move on for the good of the club. Ayers was a perfect example. The players were sick of him, his message had worn thin, the feeling from the players was that we'd achieved all that we could under him. We had given it our best shot, we'd come up short and we would never ultimately challenge for a flag.

It seems we have reached this point with Craig. The players know it. And they are playing like it.

But what a poor reflection this is on the players. There was/is no good reason to remove either of the coaches. They had both won plenty of matches, they had both reached plenty of finals series. After 2004 the players needed a new voice. A new voice was the easy answer. Having to impress a new coach always has a short term positive effect on Player Effort.

And what a disgraceful implication that draws on the players.

The same as the team that wins the week after they have sacked their coach. Where the hell was that effort and that performance the week before? The fact that effort and performance are conditional shows EXACTLY why our group ultimately failed in 2005 and 2006. Changing Ayers for Craig made little real difference. Both are very similar coaches.

The fact that we improved our standing from 2004 to 2005 despite relying on the same group of players and a similar style of coach shows that Conditional, Occasional Trying is very prevalent at our football club. And it still is.

Mate I really get some of this.. I do. But who puts the players out there? Who coaches them to perform? Who can send messages by dumping those who are not performing? Who is in the best place to actually inspire their passion and creativity and desire? Craigy.

You can say the cupboard is bare... but **** if they really are letting him down as much as it seems bring in ****ing Jacky and Griffin. Make a few examples of the guys who are the biggest culprit. Sit Bernie on his arse til he pulls his finger out. Light a fire under a few of them.

I'd love to hear what Roo has to say about the effort.. anyone hear his comments on MMM? (I assume he called the game on MMM?)

 

[Caramelas13]

Craigy hates playing contested footy. He's too afraid to tell his players to have a go, kick to a contest, take the game on............ No it has to be precise (hence the kicking from side to side and kicking into dead pockets). Why do you think we can't kick a decent score?

Especially tonight ffs. We played Nort Melbourne and we were too scared to take the game up to them. Apart from the first 5 mins, we were a disgrace. To me, that 4th qtr was irrelevant.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Mate I really get some of this.. I do. But who puts the players out there? Who coaches them to perform? Who can send messages by dumping those who are not performing? Who is in the best place to actually inspire their passion and creativity and desire? Craigy.

You can say the cupboard is bare... but **** if they really are letting him down as much as it seems bring in ****ing Jacky and Griffin. Make a few examples of the guys who are the biggest culprit. Sit Bernie on his arse til he pulls his finger out. Light a fire under a few of them.

I'd love to hear what Roo has to say about the effort.. anyone hear his comments on MMM? (I assume he called the game on MMM?)

What I am implying is that if the 'easy' option is to get a new coach in so that the players can start afresh, retire any demons and work on impressing a newbie then maybe that isn't the way to go.

Maybe it would be better to do as Geelong did; make the players stew in their own juices, dish up the same coach and the same program, show them that there is never going to be anything else so forget that grass-is-greener, Craig's-too-boring attitude and fix THEMSLEVES, rather than casting the blame outwardly. I am wondering if a culture of Outward Blame permeates the playing group.

P.S. NC can't do much about that BTW. You inherit a playing list. You can make 3-6 changes per year realistically (any more is Richmond-esque list suicide) so basically you need to work with what you have. If this Outward Blame culture exists, then the 'cancer' is being spread by the senior players to the rest of the group.

P.P.S. I've said in another thread that Craig should make the maximum number of changes possible this week. So every single player on the list who didn't play against the Roos should come in, regardless of their SANFL form.

 

[Allefgib]

What I am implying is that if the 'easy' option is to get a new coach in so that the players can start afresh, retire any demons and work on impressing a newbie then maybe that isn't the way to go.

Maybe it would be better to do as Geelong did; make the players stew in their own juices, dish up the same coach and the same program, show them that there is never going to be anything else so forget that grass-is-greener, Craig's-too-boring attitude and fix THEMSLEVES, rather than casting the blame outwardly. I am wondering if a culture of Outward Blame permeates the playing group.

P.S. NC can't do much about that BTW. You inherit a playing list. You can make 3-6 changes per year realistically (any more is Richmond-esque list suicide) so basically you need to work with what you have. If this Outward Blame culture exists, then the 'cancer' is being spread by the senior players to the rest of the group.

P.P.S. I've said in another thread that Craig should make the maximum number of changes possible this week. So every single player on the list who didn't play against the Roos should come in, regardless of their SANFL form.

Craigy is his own worst enemy in all the above is true though mate. He won't change anything to say make them go man on man and highlight the guys not putting in. He won't drop guys who aren't performing in a deliberate call-out of bad performance. He won't use selection as a 'threat' by his own admission.

Something is dreadfully wrong down at the club. Many of us have been saying it all year. Like you i want to ride all the emotions of it.

**** we were awful tonight and have been all year. Where the **** is the heart.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Craigy is his own worst enemy in all the above is true though mate. He won't change anything to say make them go man on man and highlight the guys not putting in. He won't drop guys who aren't performing in a deliberate call-out of bad performance. He won't use selection as a 'threat' by his own admission.

Something is dreadfully wrong down at the club. Many of us have been saying it all year. Like you i want to ride all the emotions of it.

**** we were awful tonight and have been all year. Where the **** is the heart.

Youre right, NC is his worst enemy. The whole Leading Teams, player empowerment angle works against him coming in as Big Brother, getting angry and sacking players left, right and centre.

On Monday we will have to work together to reach consensus and to provide positive/negative feedback and to flesh out the issues... all wank.

It looks as though the players have decided that they don't want Craig as coach anymore.

The club (board) now needs to decide whether to pander to the whims of the playing group or to say FU, the players job is to play only and leave the decision making to others.

 

[Allefgib]

Youre right, NC is his worst enemy. The whole Leading Teams, player empowerment angle works against him coming in as Big Brother, getting angry and sacking players left, right and centre.

On Monday we will have to work together to reach consensus and to provide positive/negative feedback and to flesh out the issues... all wank.

It looks as though the players have decided that they don't want Craig as coach anymore.

The club (board) now needs to decide whether to pander to the whims of the playing group or to say FU, the players job is to play only and leave the decision making to others.

Agreed. Good reinforcement of my point. The shared 'accountability' stuff can only go so far. We need profound and inspiring leadership right now.

The zone and over complication of how we win the contested footy and get it moving has led to hesitancy amongst the majority of the playing group - and then combine that with a lack of intensity and effort and we end up with the shite we are seeing.

Going to be an interesting week

 

[Crow-mo]

This is it in a nutshell. Saying that opposition sides have worked out our gameplan is missing the point totally - we are not actually playing our own gameplan.

don't think this is right.

a large part of our structure is setting up our zone between the arcs, but the opposition is moving the ball too quickly and we can't set up.

that is the absolute epitome of having been worked out.

 

[Crow-mo]

I am really torn with the decision on whether Craig continues to coach.

Sometimes even good coaches need to move on for the good of the club. Ayers was a perfect example. The players were sick of him, his message had worn thin, the feeling from the players was that we'd achieved all that we could under him. We had given it our best shot, we'd come up short and we would never ultimately challenge for a flag.

It seems we have reached this point with Craig. The players know it. And they are playing like it.

But what a poor reflection this is on the players. There was/is no good reason to remove either of the coaches. They had both won plenty of matches, they had both reached plenty of finals series. After 2004 the players needed a new voice. A new voice was the easy answer. Having to impress a new coach always has a short term positive effect on Player Effort.

And what a disgraceful implication that draws on the players.

The same as the team that wins the week after they have sacked their coach. Where the hell was that effort and that performance the week before? The fact that effort and performance are conditional shows EXACTLY why our group ultimately failed in 2005 and 2006. Changing Ayers for Craig made little real difference. Both are very similar coaches.

The fact that we improved our standing from 2004 to 2005 despite relying on the same group of players and a similar style of coach shows that Conditional, Occasional Trying is very prevalent at our football club. And it still is.

agree and disagree.

I agree with all of what you say about both Ayres & Craig and the implications on the players mental approach and the culture of the club.

however, without blaming anyone sometimes you just need a change of voice and message. perhaps its not right, but it is still true.

we had a lot of injuries to our key forward line players in 2003/2004 when we were meant to be contenders, and then we had a dream injury run in 2005 - the likes of which you can never predict or rely on.

however, I think even with that run, Ayres wouldn't have had the same results in 2005. He'd had his time. We needed a new voice, some tactical refreshing, and a sense of change and renewal. as you say Craig took the same players to new places.

Which is why I am truly thinking its time, not because of Craig's faults (and there are a few) and not because of an absence of virtue (there are a few of those too) but that if we are going to bounce back we need a new voice.

perhaps seasons like this damage and break the circle of trust, the pyschological contract between player and coach?

 

[Crow-mo]

Mate I really get some of this.. I do. But who puts the players out there? Who coaches them to perform? Who can send messages by dumping those who are not performing? Who is in the best place to actually inspire their passion and creativity and desire? Craigy.

You can say the cupboard is bare... but **** if they really are letting him down as much as it seems bring in ****ing Jacky and Griffin. Make a few examples of the guys who are the biggest culprit. Sit Bernie on his arse til he pulls his finger out. Light a fire under a few of them.

I'd love to hear what Roo has to say about the effort.. anyone hear his comments on MMM? (I assume he called the game on MMM?)

this is true too.

Pathetic Pittman anyone?

Blight wasn't prepared to let the season go to a learning experience.

 

[Crow-mo]

P.S. NC can't do much about that BTW. You inherit a playing list. You can make 3-6 changes per year realistically (any more is Richmond-esque list suicide) so basically you need to work with what you have.

ok lets run with this for a second, lets take the minimum and maximum range of the potential list changes.

cumulatively for the craig era:
2004 3 - 6
2005 6 - 12
2006 9 - 18
2007 12 - 24
2008 15 - 30
2009 18 - 36

so in craigs time he has had the opportunity (without being richmond-esque) to turn over between 1/2 and the entire playing list.

and that's without trading which offers even more opportunity for list changing of more mature bodies.

I don't think there is any question of list inheritance or legacy here.