Winners and Losers of trade week

[Suma Magic]

haha..the crows still finish above carlton based on flag odds - even after the sh1t show that has happened to our club over the last 2 seasons and with all the player movement and change in coach. In reality the odds mean very little and the crows could really have a down year and carlton could improve further

Yeah the odds were a bit strange. I doubt freo finishes bottom 3. You never know though.

 

[Feerits Elf]

Acres Steven & Bruce cancel out Ryder baker & Jones.

You're confusing the kitchen staff with the wait staff.

 

[Suma Magic]

Got to laugh how group-think works sometimes. The media falling over themselves to paint Carlton as losers and SOS as 'shattered' is simply bs. I get that people love sticking the boots into Carlton, but it's pretty absurd some of the things that are being said...

Carlton refused to be bent over for an OoC player in Martin. Whilst we certainly want him, he isn't the kind of player to release a top 10 pick for nor pay overs for (even more so when OoC). Pick 9 could be worth every bit of pick 4 in this draft and we have a strong chance to pick Jack up for free by overpaying him for a period, in the PSD. I'm clapping that we stuck to our list management strategy knowing the the public and media heat would come and deciding not to care anyway. Shows maturity and good planning.

Everyone was well aware Papley is contracted to Sydney, the length of this doesn't matter. He came out himself and said that he hopes a trade can be done, but will be professional if Sydney hold him to his contract. Everyone was on the same page here and SOS said they were clear that if Daniher didn't get through, neither would Papley. But hysteria ensues regardless. It sounds to me like Sydney and Carlton, who have a solid, professional trading relationship, were all mature and aware of the situation. Contracts should mean something, something Carlton and its fans know all about.

It's ok to disagree and bang on with your hyperbole about how no players will ever nominate us again, how embarrassing that we didn't get our targets, SOS is inept blah blah blah blah. I am extremely comfortable with what has transpired.

But aren't you communicating the group-think of a lot of Carlton supporters?

Personally I think if you get martin you've done well, and if you don't get him you haven't done that well. That's just my opinion though.

 

[SMSBF]

I said Hill was good. FFS and you paid huge overs.

Contracted star. pick 10 and future second. Hardly overs.
Unless you think 58 and fourth rounds matter.

 

[iameviljez]

What really stood out to me was the number of trades that didn't get done despite a player expressing a clear desire to leave. In recent years, the mantra has been that they "always get done" - but this year we had Papley, Daniher, Martin, and, to a lesser degree, Crouch, all failing to find a new home.

It's not a bad thing, either, to my mind. Sign the contract, see it through - though I have some sympathy for Martin here as he is out of contract.

 

[jesterwester]

Personally thought the Bulldogs did really well- added the bookends they needed for a small fee. Given how strong a midfield they have I’d be very surprised if they didn’t finish top 4 next year.

WC have been refreshing the list/rebuilding on the run, (Have been since 2018) but realistically have maybe 2-3 years to challenge again for a flag with Kennedy/Hurn/Shuey/Nicnat in back ends of their careers. Priority has to be now- Kelly adds to the weakest line in the midfield.

Freo also did pretty well to improve their draft hand in the early stages of this years draft. Acres is a handy replacement for Langdon and I think given the right role will do really well there. I think he’s a good fit. Aish likewise. Given they had Hill and Langdon looking to leave I think they broke even at least.

GWS is an interesting case. They lost bonar for peanuts, which was interesting given how much of a focus they put on him pre-draft. Yes, he wanted more opportunities. But to just let him go for nothing was strange, surely they could have got a better deal? Got a pick upgrade to get into the top 6, but that may end up being less useful if Sydney bids on Greene at 5.

St Kilda got a bonanza in players. Jones & Hill in particular who will slot into that midfield nicely. Perhaps will take a bit of time to gel, but had specific targets and got them. So big win in my books. Do all 5 fit into best 22 in round 1? I’m not convinced just yet. But it adds to the list position and with the exception of Ryder all are in the prime of their careers.

 

[iameviljez]

Personally I think if you get martin you've done well, and if you don't get him you haven't done that well.

Still a 50/50 to nab him with p43 in the national draft IMO.

 

[99cents]

Geelong lose Tim Kelly... gain a mentally broken Jack Steven and Josh Jenkins.. yet win... lol..... ok

Stevens was warehousing himself in anticipation

 

[jesterwester]

What really stood out to me was the number of trades that didn't get done despite a player expressing a clear desire to leave. In recent years, the mantra has been that they "always get done" - but this year we had Papley, Daniher, Martin, and, to a lesser degree, Crouch, all failing to find a new home.

It's not a bad thing, either, to my mind. Sign the contract, see it through - though I have some sympathy for Martin here as he is out of contract.

I personally think that clubs were fighting back a little bit on that front and were more respectful of teams in the negotiations. If a club REALLY wants a contracted player, they will have to pay the price that the outgoing club thinks is fair.

Message has to get through to players that contracts work both ways. Look at Chris Mayne for example. He signed a 4 year deal, and made sure the club held up their end even when it looked like they were trying to pay him out. He’s now best 22. Contracts are a guarantee of continuance of AFL careers. But clubs are entitled to hold them to those contracts.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Winners: Dogs and WCE
What they did is make themselves flag favs with richmond.
I reckon Dogs win 2020 flag now. Bevo is the greatest. For dogs or saints to win a flag is amazing. We are up against it.

Dogs knew saints and crows HAD to get rid of bruce and keath - 2 very good positional players.
Dogs NEEDED them badly but held strong kept 13 and got massive boost for very little.

Saints big winners also, as long as
a steven never plays good
b max king steps up

Saints still need elite mids. To give away steven hurts but got the feeling he maybe cooked anyway.


Losers:
Carlton and Sydney. Ouch. Missed out on players they went hard for. Gave away decent talent inside their 22.

Crows and Port - not good. SA is in tatters whats going on? Missed taegets gave away good players. Shopped stars around. Wont be happy places. What the hell happened on that camp!?!?
Did they make players kiss and fondle or something? weird

I was not aware of the Crows missing out on any targets.

The club's objective was to to trade out older players & gather draft picks for the next 2 drafts to refresh the list.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

What really stood out to me was the number of trades that didn't get done despite a player expressing a clear desire to leave. In recent years, the mantra has been that they "always get done" - but this year we had Papley, Daniher, Martin, and, to a lesser degree, Crouch, all failing to find a new home.

It's not a bad thing, either, to my mind. Sign the contract, see it through - though I have some sympathy for Martin here as he is out of contract.

Crouch didn't request a trade.

 

[TW Sherrin]

Contracted star. pick 10 and future second. Hardly overs.
Unless you think 58 and fourth rounds matter.

star? nah. good player. he is not a star.

Fyfe is a star.

 

[Andre the Giant]

All this Bulldogs and St Kilda love is a bit much.

I must have been mistaken for thinking Josh Bruce was Tom Lynch the way the sniffers have been waxing lyrical.

Bruce wasn’t our 6th best forward when he was at the Giants and at St Kilda he was serviceable at best. He was so coveted at the Saints that they were more than happy to let him go to get other more valuable assets.

Yes he’s a big body and yes that should theoretically allow more flexibility for Naughton but let’s not mistake this for Franklin and Roughead.

As for Saints yes they have identified and traded in all their targets but delve a bit more into these players and what will they bring and is this necessarily the right strategy?

Saints are currently a middling to worse side shy on elite players but have just pretty much dragged themselves out of the pointy end of the next two drafts.

There is no doubt these players improve the list but do they improve the list enough or do they just become a more competitive middling side?

I feel that Saints have had a combination of bad luck with draft selections combined with poor choices but is abandoning the draft the right move...I’m not sure. In isolation they won this trade period but will that still be the thought in 3 or 4 years? I doubt it.

 

[asanque]

Clear winners: Cats

Got value going in (Steven for 58, Jenkins 72) and out (Zac Smith for 58, Kelly for effectively pick #1)

Freo also got a lot of value for their players (e.g. Hill) and picked up some reasonable value (e.g. Acres)

 

[TheKITC]

But aren't you communicating the group-think of a lot of Carlton supporters?

Personally I think if you get martin you've done well, and if you don't get him you haven't done that well. That's just my opinion though.

I'm not here to represent the views of others, let alone opinions of other Carlton supporters. Ever read a footy club facebook page? Those same people and opinions are spouted on BF and it is difficult reading... best ignored quite frankly. Think my opinion was made very clear...

 

[Suma Magic]

I'm not here to represent the views of others, let alone opinions of other Carlton supporters. Ever read a footy club facebook page? Those same people and opinions are spouted on BF and it is difficult reading... best ignored quite frankly. Think my opinion was made very clear...

I was just pointing out that you said that people who say it was a failure is because of “groupthink”. I’m just saying that logic can equally be applied to blues fans arguing it wasn’t a failure.

 

[Mitchell54]

Winners:
Bulldogs
West Coast
St Kilda
Hawthorn
Geelong

Losers:
Carlton
Melbourne
Port Adelaide

 

[99cents]

if fit he plays round one. We aren’t waiting for him to develop etc.

That’s the definition of plug and play

Fair enough. "ready meal."
although Keath may in fact improve still

 

[SMSBF]

star? nah. good player. he is not a star.

Fyfe is a star.

no. Hill is a star of competition.
Fyfe is a legend of all time.

 

[Ducky Tie]

This notion that St Kilda is abandoning the draft is not really true. For all their acquisitions, they have given up one first rounder. Next years first rounder remaining is crucial. I expect we will use it next year and continue drafting from here. The age demographic of the list still remains in shape to aim to contend in a few years, 2022-2025 I imagine. Yes, Hill's prime is in the next few years but the club has not made finals in eight years and I think rightly anticipates that it simply needs to be playing finals. It is not going to jump from 14th to being a contender in a few years all of a sudden. These list changes this year allows it to hopefully push for finals in 2020 and build on it from years to come. Improvement is not linear and for too long the club has accepted mediocrity and assumed improvement would come. It's getting proactive now and has given a vanilla list a well needed shake up.

 

[SMSBF]

All this Bulldogs and St Kilda love is a bit much.

I must have been mistaken for thinking Josh Bruce was Tom Lynch the way the sniffers have been waxing lyrical.

Bruce wasn’t our 6th best forward when he was at the Giants and at St Kilda he was serviceable at best. He was so coveted at the Saints that they were more than happy to let him go to get other more valuable assets.

Yes he’s a big body and yes that should theoretically allow more flexibility for Naughton but let’s not mistake this for Franklin and Roughead.

As for Saints yes they have identified and traded in all their targets but delve a bit more into these players and what will they bring and is this necessarily the right strategy?

Saints are currently a middling to worse side shy on elite players but have just pretty much dragged themselves out of the pointy end of the next two drafts.

There is no doubt these players improve the list but do they improve the list enough or do they just become a more competitive middling side?

I feel that Saints have had a combination of bad luck with draft selections combined with poor choices but is abandoning the draft the right move...I’m not sure. In isolation they won this trade period but will that still be the thought in 3 or 4 years? I doubt it.

Saints will do a Lions next year. Good fixture will be top 4.
Names like Marshal, Ross, Steele, Dunstan, Sinclair, Clark, Bytel - seem like rubbish. But are clearance kings.
Its the class on the outside, the great key forwards/backs and coaches that wikl make us a very good team in 2020.

Geary Howard Webster
Wilkie Carlisle Savage
Hill Ross ZJones
Billings Membrey Butler/Parker
Gresham MKing Battle

Marshal Steele Hanneberry

Ryder H.Clark Sinclair Dunstan

 

[TheKITC]

I was just pointing out that you said that people who say it was a failure is because of “groupthink”. I’m just saying that logic can equally be applied to blues fans arguing it wasn’t a failure.

Did you miss my rationale behind my opinion? It's explained pretty clearly. So clearly not group-think when I've taken the time to logically and thoughtfully explain it... exactly the opposite of group-think.

 

[dcutter]

Value wise, I reckon the Dogs smashed trade week

Alex Keath would surely have been in AA calculations
Bruce is an enormous get. Teams will have to cover Naughton, Bruce, Schache and an emerging Bailey Dale.
Above all, gave nothing up and get a free bite of the cherry with their first rounder.

Bullish about the dogs next year. Top 4 for mine.

 

[Andre the Giant]

Saints will do a Lions next year. Good fixture will be top 4.
Names like Marshal, Ross, Steele, Dunstan, Sinclair, Clark, Bytel - seem like rubbish. But are clearance kings.
Its the class on the outside, the great key forwards/backs and coaches that wikl make us a very good team in 2020.

Geary Howard Webster
Wilkie Carlisle Savage
Hill Ross ZJones
Billings Membrey Butler/Parker
Gresham MKing Battle

Marshal Steele Hanneberry

Ryder H.Clark Sinclair Dunstan

It’s really going to rest heavily on just how good King is and the development of Clark, Gresham, Billings and Coffield.

Hill is a jet so a good get, Howard has shown promise but is hardly proven, Butler regressed but has talent, Ryder is on wrong side of 30, inconsistent and injury prone, Jones is fast but an absolute ball butcher.

I see green shoots but I just don’t know if now was the time to be doing this or if you needed another couple of high level draftees to elevate.

Really like the appointment of Ratten and by all reports King has the potential to be the most valuable player in the comp if he stays sound.

Time will tell but personally didn’t love all the moves.

 

[Suma Magic]

Did you miss my rationale behind my opinion? It's explained pretty clearly. So clearly not group-think when I've taken the time to logically and thoughtfully explain it... exactly the opposite of group-think.

Many people who think it was a disaster have similar logic and rationale to back up their view. That’s my point. Just because most people think it, doesn’t mean it can’t be an informed and reasonable opinion.