Review Winners? Losers?

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Blackas87 said:
I don't get Freo being huge winners. McCarthy, Hill, Hamling and Kersten aren't exactly top A grade talents.
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The trade period isn't about acquiring the the most talent, it is about getting the best value. Sure, none of the above mentioned players are superstars but they have value to Freo - more value than the difference between picks 3 and 7 and Chris Mayne, which is essentially all that was given up to bring those players in.

I am surprised that people think Geelong did poorly. Black for Kersten isn't a loss, Vardy possibly would have been delisted anyway and the other two trades were big wins for Geelong in my opinion: Smedts and 2017 1st for Tuohy and Carltons 2017 2nd (a proven quality mid/small defender to replace Enright for a likely pick downgrade of about 6 places and a nothing player), and; receiving pick 24 + change for Caddy.
 

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Suma Magic said:
I think you gave the following to get O'Meara:
- a future first
- pick 23
- pick 36
- pick 48
- pick 68
- can't remember if there was more.

You are also paying Vickery half a million a year.

You got nothing of trade value for losing the top 2 in your b&f.

You may not end up being losers, but surely you can see why others think you may be losers.
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Those two are very close to being on their way out and the two new mids are decent replacements with way more years left
 
Dez! said:
Yep that year because Cotchin was re-entering the draft for shits and giggles and Richmond wanted to make sure they drafted him again.

:drunk:

No Cotchins draft year.
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oh you mean the year the cats beat us by 157 points... yes we were a great side that year and the only reason we finished last was due to us "tanking"

We actually did such a great job "tanking" we finished last however still didn't receive the first pick in the draft.

You follow melbourne yeah?:drunk:
 
Suma Magic said:
I think you gave the following to get O'Meara:
- a future first
- pick 23
- pick 36
- pick 48
- pick 68
- can't remember if there was more.

You are also paying Vickery half a million a year.

You got nothing of trade value for losing the top 2 in your b&f.

You may not end up being losers, but surely you can see why others think you may be losers.
Click to expand...

You've listed out all those draft picks, but i'd love to hear your thoughts on what kind of players you think those would actually get us. For example, these are the players that have been taken with pick 23 since 2001:

Charlie Gardiner, Tom Lonergan, Matthew Moody, Sean Rusling, Ryan Cook, Paul Stewart, Tayte Pears, David Zaharakis, Koby Stevens, Cameron Guthrie, Murray Newman, Marco Paparone, Matt Crouch, Pat McKenna, David Cunningham

So which of those players makes a difference in the direction our list is heading? Out of all the players taken with the picks you've listed, which ones would make us a contender? Now look at all the players taken at those picks that are complete busts or would make very little difference. The chances of actually finding players with those picks that would make a difference is ridiculously low.

Ultimately, if JOM doesn't pay off, of course we've lost. But if we didn't trade, and those draft picks don't come off, we would have lost anyway. Even if those draft picks do work out, what is the point if they don't make you a contender? JOM can make us a contender.
 
Grockadoc said:
I think we are banking on players like Menadue, Markov, Shot, Corey Ellis, Kamdyn Mcintosh, Rioli all stepping up again next season. I would have loved a first rounder this year, but I think we can substitute not taking one this year and having two next year. Prestia and Caddy addressed a glaring hole on our list, and our trade period has made us a lot stronger, at least on paper, than it was prior to trade week.

We also have Yarran who, if he can get his body and head right, will be a huge inclusion for us as well. Conca is another who offers us something but his body has let him down.

We essentially traded Deledio, 6 and a future second for Prestia, Caddy, A future first and third. Whilst a first this year would have been nice, until we fix our drafting department, I'd rather take the known quantities in Caddy and Prestia at this stage.
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Yes yarran is the man ..put your House on it lol
 
dean33 said:
oh you mean the year the cats beat us by 157 points... yes we were a great side that year and the only reason we finished last was due to us "tanking"

We actually did such a great job "tanking" we finished last however still didn't receive the first pick in the draft.

You follow melbourne yeah?:drunk:
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So you missed Terry Wallace admitting this I take it?
 
Procrastinator35 said:
Was pretty sloppy stuff from Adelaide & Gibbs all-round, truth be told.

You don't pull a rug out from under another club, by announcing on a Friday arvo, that you want to up sticks & high-tail it come next Thursday.

More especially, when that player still has 3 years to run on his contract & is his clubs best player....Just a dumb move & attempted blind-side from Adelaide.

I'd of done the same thing as Carlton did....In fact, we did that with Buckenara back in 1987.... Albeit, under very different circumstances.
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You were going ok until you said he was our best player ...it was all downhill from there
 
Lol @ people saying hawthorns trade period was a fail lol... If Mitchell and Lewis did an Enright/ Bartel and retired instead our trade period gets an A++. Yet neutrals knock it down because we got nothing for them. I'm curious to know, did all these tradeweekfailhawthorn folk believe we were a chance for the flag if we kept them next year? Because we weren't.

This is the best trade period in memory for hawthorn and will be our greatest influx of talent since the 04 draft. This will be a beautiful bump.
 

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Tyler Hodges said:
Lol @ people saying hawthorns trade period was a fail lol... If Mitchell and Lewis did an Enright/ Bartel and retired instead our trade period gets an A++. Yet neutrals knock it down because we got nothing for them. I'm curious to know, did all these tradeweekfailhawthorn folk believe we were a chance for the flag if we kept them next year? Because we weren't.

This is the best trade period in memory for hawthorn and will be our greatest influx of talent since the 04 draft. This will be a beautiful bump.
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Surely you admit you should have got more for Lewis?
 
Prudster said:
You've listed out all those draft picks, but i'd love to hear your thoughts on what kind of players you think those would actually get us. For example, these are the players that have been taken with pick 23 since 2001:

Charlie Gardiner, Tom Lonergan, Matthew Moody, Sean Rusling, Ryan Cook, Paul Stewart, Tayte Pears, David Zaharakis, Koby Stevens, Cameron Guthrie, Murray Newman, Marco Paparone, Matt Crouch, Pat McKenna, David Cunningham

So which of those players makes a difference in the direction our list is heading? Out of all the players taken with the picks you've listed, which ones would make us a contender? Now look at all the players taken at those picks that are complete busts or would make very little difference. The chances of actually finding players with those picks that would make a difference is ridiculously low.

Ultimately, if JOM doesn't pay off, of course we've lost. But if we didn't trade, and those draft picks don't come off, we would have lost anyway. Even if those draft picks do work out, what is the point if they don't make you a contender? JOM can make us a contender.
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It's not just about guns though, it's about depth. You need those good, honest players who make up the bottom 8 spots of your best 22, and then the next 6-8 who can come in as cover. You've been up the top for a long time, and your depth has suffered (as intended by the draft system). Now you've just given up the opportunity for depth both this year and next (first pick is tied to GWS second, which will be 40-ish). While getting JOM and Mitchell is great, you'll need to pick up some good rookies, free agents or delisted players to make up what you're losing from the draft.
 
Prudster said:
You've listed out all those draft picks, but i'd love to hear your thoughts on what kind of players you think those would actually get us. For example, these are the players that have been taken with pick 23 since 2001:

Charlie Gardiner, Tom Lonergan, Matthew Moody, Sean Rusling, Ryan Cook, Paul Stewart, Tayte Pears, David Zaharakis, Koby Stevens, Cameron Guthrie, Murray Newman, Marco Paparone, Matt Crouch, Pat McKenna, David Cunningham

So which of those players makes a difference in the direction our list is heading? Out of all the players taken with the picks you've listed, which ones would make us a contender? Now look at all the players taken at those picks that are complete busts or would make very little difference. The chances of actually finding players with those picks that would make a difference is ridiculously low.

Ultimately, if JOM doesn't pay off, of course we've lost. But if we didn't trade, and those draft picks don't come off, we would have lost anyway. Even if those draft picks do work out, what is the point if they don't make you a contender? JOM can make us a contender.
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I was just comparing it to what other clubs have paid for a player with similar risk/reward via trade.

Thats the second element to assessment. The first as you point out, is assessing the two sides of the deal.
 
replicant said:
It's not just about guns though, it's about depth. You need those good, honest players who make up the bottom 8 spots of your best 22, and then the next 6-8 who can come in as cover. You've been up the top for a long time, and your depth has suffered (as intended by the draft system). Now you've just given up the opportunity for depth both this year and next (first pick is tied to GWS second, which will be 40-ish). While getting JOM and Mitchell is great, you'll need to pick up some good rookies, free agents or delisted players to make up what you're losing from the draft.
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I actually think our depth is ok, except for KPF and KPD's. ( I like 0'Brien, but damm man, my 2 year old has bigger guns)
Plenty of other guys coming thru that i think can perform if given an extended run. We may well be looking at some delisted/free agents to cover those areas of our list.
 
replicant said:
It's not just about guns though, it's about depth. You need those good, honest players who make up the bottom 8 spots of your best 22, and then the next 6-8 who can come in as cover. You've been up the top for a long time, and your depth has suffered (as intended by the draft system). Now you've just given up the opportunity for depth both this year and next (first pick is tied to GWS second, which will be 40-ish). While getting JOM and Mitchell is great, you'll need to pick up some good rookies, free agents or delisted players to make up what you're losing from the draft.
Click to expand...

Seems like a poor reason to miss out on an elite talent in an area of the ground you desperately need it. As you said, that depth can be found with late picks, the rookie draft, and delisted free agents. You can also find it by trading in fringe players from other clubs for nothing picks. From Hawthorn, some of our best depth over the last few years has been guys like Cheney, Spangher, and Simpkin, who are far, far easier to get than trying to find elite talent without top 5-10 draft picks.

Suma Magic said:
I was just comparing it to what other clubs have paid for a player with similar risk/reward via trade.

Thats the second element to assessment. The first as you point out, is assessing the two sides of the deal.
Click to expand...

Which players with similar risk/rewards did you have in mind?
 
dean33 said:
Surely you admit you should have got more for Lewis?
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Yeah I find it strange that the market value between Deledio and Lewis was so great, they were both top 10's in the same draft, Lids is a slightly better and more versatile player but Lewis is much more durable and has had a far better career.

Everyone buys into the idea that Lewis is one of the old firm, he was so young when they won in 08 I think everyone is fooled by the bald patch tbh, thought Hawks could get at least a mid 30's pick. The only problem I had with the whole trade period was the value of Lewis, the saints pick swap was a necessary evil to greatly enhance our chance of landing Jaeger so it sits fine with me.
 
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Tyler Hodges said:
Lol @ people saying hawthorns trade period was a fail lol... If Mitchell and Lewis did an Enright/ Bartel and retired instead our trade period gets an A++. Yet neutrals knock it down because we got nothing for them. I'm curious to know, did all these tradeweekfailhawthorn folk believe we were a chance for the flag if we kept them next year? Because we weren't.

This is the best trade period in memory for hawthorn and will be our greatest influx of talent since the 04 draft. This will be a beautiful bump.
Click to expand...


Cant make a call on Hawks trade period, so many unknowns, but if Omeara kicks off and Mitchell has a shit year along with lewis, then you go to top of the class and everyone will be so so pissed
 

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