Worst bowler in last 10 years - Brett Lee

[iscah]

I wrote this before the 1st test. In the first test Lee did not impress greatly. He took 5 wickets at about 21 when the rest of the team took the wickets at about 18 average. Also he only took 2 of those wickets against the top 6 batsman in both innings (ie 2 of the top 12 wickets ).. So the jury is still out.

This is what I wrote to a radio station in Perth ..

Why is Brett Lee a 'certainty' for the test team . Surely cricket is a game of substance over image. He looks quick but he goes for runs very quickly in one day cricket and in test match goes for both runs quickly and at a terrible average.

Since the last ashes in england in 2001consider the bowling records of the three competing players for two positions are ..

Kasper , 16 tests, 55 wickets at an average of 26.09
Gillespie, 45 tests, 165 wickets at an average of 27.33
Lee, 30 tests, 97 wickets at an average of 38.42 (that is a team would make close to 400 in both innings at that rate)

His strike rate since 2001 is the worst of our fast bowlers and his average is terrible. Apart from the 'image of speed' he does not bring anything else to the team. His best asset is he has the media on his side.

Cheers
Steve

 

[bunsen burner]

I've often been the first one to criticise Lee and still have the opinio that Australia will be in trouble if he remains a long term strike bowler, but you don't have a clue what you're on about. There's no question that Lee was the right man for the first test. He bowled well. The only thing at the moment that is uncertain is whether Kaspa should come in for Gillespie in the second test.

The stats that you provide do not to show what is important and are for the most part irrelevant.

 

[utility]

I thought Lee bowled well in the first test and showed that he deserved to play... what happened two years or five years ago is just about irrelevant.

 

[scmods]

Brett Lee may not be the best bowler in the last ten years, but he's certainly not the worst either.

 

[spookism]

Brett Lee may not be the best bowler in the last ten years, but he's certainly not the worst either.

Yeah, there has been a couple of shockers bowling for Australia in the last 10 Years....

 

[apollo_creed]

Thread Title of the year.

Cold, Hard, Truth.

Hats off to 'iscah'.

 

[sinepari]

What about Scott Muller??

Quality.

 

[Blues_Man]

What about Scott Muller??

Quality.

can't bat can't bowl can't field .....wait thats half the pommy test team

 

[Blues_Man]

I wrote this before the 1st test. In the first test Lee did not impress greatly. He took 5 wickets at about 21 when the rest of the team took the wickets at about 18 average. Also he only took 2 of those wickets against the top 6 batsman in both innings (ie 2 of the top 12 wickets ).. So the jury is still out.

This is what I wrote to a radio station in Perth ..

Why is Brett Lee a 'certainty' for the test team . Surely cricket is a game of substance over image. He looks quick but he goes for runs very quickly in one day cricket and in test match goes for both runs quickly and at a terrible average.

Since the last ashes in england in 2001consider the bowling records of the three competing players for two positions are ..

Kasper , 16 tests, 55 wickets at an average of 26.09
Gillespie, 45 tests, 165 wickets at an average of 27.33
Lee, 30 tests, 97 wickets at an average of 38.42 (that is a team would make close to 400 in both innings at that rate)

His strike rate since 2001 is the worst of our fast bowlers and his average is terrible. Apart from the 'image of speed' he does not bring anything else to the team. His best asset is he has the media on his side.

Cheers
Steve

did they write back and say "do we look like test selectors you idiot ?"

 

[therupy27]

come on guts let not forget that blocker wilson and sean young have played test cricket

 

[sinepari]

come on guts let not forget that blocker wilson and sean young have played test cricket

Very valid.

 

[Cassius_Clay]

Didnt Lee just get 5 wickets in the last test?

 

[silky-smooth]

can't bat can't bowl can't field ..... wait thats half the pommy test team

Hey! Don't you ever overrate the English team again you Blues' supporter you.

 

[Rhombus]

The problem with Iscah and Apollo Creed is that they expect every bowler to be a superstar.

Lee is there to play a role. While McGrath is choking them at one end Lee's role is to frighten the life out of them at the other. His 1st test performance was really good.

"He took 5 wickets at about 21 when the rest of the team took the wickets at about 18 average."
Gee, there's a massive difference there Iscah!

"Also he only took 2 of those wickets against the top 6 batsman in both innings (ie 2 of the top 12 wickets )"
Kinda hard when Mcgrath takes 5 for 2 in 23 balls don't ya think?

 

[dan warna]

ashley Giles

 

[Ljp86]

ashley Giles

Thread over

 

[Free Willy]

I know it was longer than 10 years ago, but Chris Matthews debut at the WACCA was an absolute disgrace, bordering on stand-up comedy.

The repeated 4 wides stock ball (both sides of the wicket to a full stretch diving keeper)
I'll never forget certain images of that spell, it was 5th grade park cricket, nothing Ive seen at Test Level (even lower park grade levels) comes close.

 

[iscah]

Sorry, was talking about players who have had an extended run from the selectors, not one offs ..

To refute the claim that Lee's pace helps our other bowlers here are the bowling averages of our two leading bowlers in Lee's golden years compared to the rest of their careers...

---------------In Lee's period / Rest of Career
McGrath ----- 21.73 / 20.89
Gillespie ----- 27.37 / 24.81

I accept that Gillespie is not bowling as well now, but these figures were before his recent slump.

What makes Lee's poor bowling even more surprising is that he gets the new ball AND gets most of his wickets against the tail. His average of 38.42 in this period would otherwise be even worse (hard to imagine). I don't think a bloke should be in the side just because he can get the tail out.

His series bowling averages over the last 4 years are as follows ..

2001 England Away 55.11
2002 New Zealand Home 25.14
2002 South Africa Home 34.88
2002 South Africa Away 41.60
2003 Pakistan Away 46.80
2003 England Home 41.23
2003 West Indies Away 28.88
2003 Bangladesh Home 31.66
2004 Zimbabwe Home 37.00
2004 India Away 59.50


Apart from having very very strong support in the media because of his athleticism and image , his figures and the negative impact it has on his team mates bowling figures do not warrant a recall. I would much rather see some blokes aged 20-25 be given a chance and hope to unearth some players to take over from McGrath and Gillespie..

Iscah

 

[gandaal]

Just in case some people don't understand what iscah going on about this should make it easier for you.

"Worst bowler in last 10 years - Brett Lee"

translates into

"I am an imbecile. Please mock me"

Once you realise that we can all do what he so obviously wants and have a good laugh at someone who's obviously never played in or watched a cricket match in his life.

 

[iscah]

Just in case some people don't understand what iscah going on about this should make it easier for you.

"Worst bowler in last 10 years - Brett Lee"

translates into

"I am an imbecile. Please mock me"

Once you realise that we can all do what he so obviously wants and have a good laugh at someone who's obviously never played in or watched a cricket match in his life.

What a weird way of mounting an argument against what I say. How is attacking me personally going to change any of Lee's appalling bowling figures ??

Just to show how irrelevant your comments are, I have played cricket for 20 years and love the game. I much prefer slogging around a bowler who bowls quick and does not move the ball than one who puts the ball on a good length and uses some skill to make it deviate..

The sad fact is that since 2001 the following teams have had the same attitude and enjoyed his 'quick' bowling very much (Lee's bowling average alongside) ..

2001 England Away 55.11
2002 New Zealand Home 25.14
2002 South Africa Home 34.88
2002 South Africa Away 41.60
2003 Pakistan Away 46.80
2003 England Home 41.23
2003 West Indies Away 28.88
2003 Bangladesh Home 31.66
2004 Zimbabwe Home 37.00
2004 India Away 59.50


In our most successful era ever we have had a bowler average 38.5 with the ball. Cricket is a game of statistics more than any other sport and his record speaks for itself. It is why he was dropped funnily enough and the lack of any quality to replace him means that he gets back in. Don't ever let image overcome substance my friend ..

 

[dan warna]

What a weird way of mounting an argument against what I say. How is attacking me personally going to change any of Lee's appalling bowling figures ??

Just to show how irrelevant your comments are, I have played cricket for 20 years and love the game. I much prefer slogging around a bowler who bowls quick and does not move the ball than one who puts the ball on a good length and uses some skill to make it deviate..

The sad fact is that since 2001 the following teams have had the same attitude and enjoyed his 'quick' bowling very much (Lee's bowling average alongside) ..

2001 England Away 55.11
2002 New Zealand Home 25.14
2002 South Africa Home 34.88
2002 South Africa Away 41.60
2003 Pakistan Away 46.80
2003 England Home 41.23
2003 West Indies Away 28.88
2003 Bangladesh Home 31.66
2004 Zimbabwe Home 37.00
2004 India Away 59.50


In our most successful era ever we have had a bowler average 38.5 with the ball. Cricket is a game of statistics more than any other sport and his record speaks for itself. It is why he was dropped funnily enough and the lack of any quality to replace him means that he gets back in. Don't ever let image overcome substance my friend ..

but he has so much potential...and he's a great one day bowler, and Kaspa is a hack (with a better average over the same period mind you) but in their subjective opinion Kaspa is a hack, and if you repeat it often enough, you'll believe it!, besides he comes from NSW and gets to leap frog everyone to get into the test side (Katich thread).

 

[iscah]

I should have qualifed this thread in that it only includes bowlers who have been given more than a handful of tests. Amongst those his average of 38.5 in his last 30 odd tests makes him #1 under the title of this thread. And his effort last night of

Lee 17 1 111 1 (3nb, 1w)

Just backs it up ..

It is not about bowling quick, looking athletic, having the media on your side, test cricket is about performance and he does not perform. Not havnig McGrath in the team means that Lee cannot expect others to get the top order out so he gets to intimidate the tail.

We deperately need to unearth some young quicks and give them a chance. And drop Lee back to the next level.

 

[dan warna]

Giles > Lee

Lee 17 1 111 1 (3nb, 1w)
Gillespie 22 3 91 2 (3nb)
Kasprowicz 15 3 80 3 (8nb)
Warne 25.2 4 116 4

 

[MickZu]

Brett Lee may not be the best bowler in the last ten years, but he's certainly not the worst either.

No Australia test bowler has ever had worse bowler figures/stats for the same amount of tests played as Brett Lee. That pretty much makes him the worst. He has never deserved his spot on the team.

Selectors

 

[skipper kelly]

I should have qualifed this thread in that it only includes bowlers who have been given more than a handful of tests. Amongst those his average of 38.5 in his last 30 odd tests makes him #1 under the title of this thread. And his effort last night of

Lee 17 1 111 1 (3nb, 1w)

Just backs it up ..

It is not about bowling quick, looking athletic, having the media on your side, test cricket is about performance and he does not perform. Not havnig McGrath in the team means that Lee cannot expect others to get the top order out so he gets to intimidate the tail.

We deperately need to unearth some young quicks and give them a chance. And drop Lee back to the next level.

It must be fun watching cricket hoping that one player in your team fails.