Covid-19 Wuhan Coronavirus (COVID-19) - Part 4 - Ivermectin doesn't work either.

[Chief]

Continued in Part 5:

Covid-19 - Wuhan Coronavirus (COVID-19) - Part 5 - Get vaccinated.

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Documents/in-focus/covid-19-vaccination-case-surveillance-051121.pdf In the peak fortnight of the outbreak to date (25 August to 7 September), the COVID-19 case rate among 2-dose vaccinated people was 49.5 per 100,000 while in unvaccinated...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Snake_Baker]

Some training is enough to make you a expert?

Im discussing the concept of "trust the science" when in reality all this thread does is question it. Its a parody of itself somewhat

Do you have training & qualifications in the relative fields? It's a simple question, please answer it mate.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Do you have training & qualifications in the relative fields? It's a simple question, please answer it mate.

I have training and qualifications in the medical field but not virology, hence why I woulnt question the beleifs of a actual expert in the field

 

[Snake_Baker]

I have training and qualifications in the medical field but not virology,

Okay, then utilising your exact same logic, who are you to question my view of this clip?

hence why I woulnt question the beleifs of a actual expert in the field

You should never, ever, ever get hung up on a title. I'm confident that every single recipient of a Nobel Prize didn't.

In science, the data rules, not reputations.................you go to the arts for that crap.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Weather drives people indoors. Therefore weather is a cause.


but sure it’s only a massive coincidence that when weather drives people to crowd indoors we have virus outbreaks. This is only a major feature of outbreaks all across the planet.

Talking current outbreak in victoria.

Patient zero most likely spread it in workplace or shopping centers.
Most shopping centres are busy in summer and winter and are indoors these days.

Your logic is not logical.

IF it gets to the point that we are having uncontrollable spreading due to people huddled indoors, then it will be logical.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Okay, then utilising your exact same logic, who are you to question my view of this clip?



You should never, ever, ever get hung up on a title. I'm confident that every single recipient of a Nobel Prize didn't.

In science, the data rules, not reputations.................you go to the arts for that crap.

Medicine has a hierarchal opinion base for sure. Thats why junior doctors dont override long time professionals in a field for example. A fairly basic life principle that surely?

Not sure why you are taking it as some massive form of disrespect. Its 100% reasonable for me to take the thoughts of the guy who found the HIV-1 virus over yours. Its common sense more than some form of random insult to you

 

[Snake_Baker]

Not sure why you are taking it as some massive form of disrespect.

I'm not sure why you're even interpreting it that way. I'm pointing out that your complete faith in the clip is flawed, as is your justification. There are too many holes in the clip itself.

Its 100% reasonable for me to take the thoughts of the guy who found the HIV-1 virus over yours.

I'm not in competition with him, I am questioning how his views have been portrayed and the lack of context in the piece. This is ultimately the mistake of the person who packaged this up in the first place, and I would guess they have misconstrued the scientist's views to suit their own agendas.

Again, correct context is everything.

Its common sense more than some form of random insult to you

I haven't seen it that way.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

I'm not sure why you're even interpreting it that way. I'm pointing out that your complete faith in the clip is flawed, as is your justification. There are too many holes in the clip itself.



I'm not in competition with him, I am questioning how his views have been portrayed and the lack of context in the piece. This is ultimately the mistake of the person who packaged this up in the first place, and I would guess they have misconstrued the scientist's views to suit their own agendas.

Again, correct context is everything.




I haven't seen it that way.

His thoughts are flawed, I have a different opinion. This is my interpretation, but you are not competing with his views?

Are you fair dinkum or what?

 

[Snake_Baker]

His thoughts are flawed, I have a different opinion. This is my interpretation, but you are not competing with his views?

Are you fair dinkum or what?

What part of "the clip is flawed" do you fail to get through your thick head?

The scientist did not put together your presentation.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I think I heard that the info given to them by the person came from his credit card statement which didn't accurately identify the supermarket. He was probably going through it to trace his movements and dates. So not really that inexcusable.

apparently the entry just said "epping" woolies (not epping north). given there was no clarifier, and the stores the punter went to were opposite the epping woolies

 

[Dry Rot]

Meanwhile, in the USA we now will have no idea how effective the Pfizer, Moderna and J&J vaccines are. The CDC has decided not to bother to collect stats of infected vaccinated people, only severe infections.

Ridiculous.

The CDC is limiting reviews of reported breakthrough COVID infections to severe cases

Federal health officials this month decided to limit how they monitor vaccinated people who have been infected with COVID-19, drawing concern from some scientists who say that may mean missing needed data showing why and how it happens.

The CDC is limiting reviews of rare breakthrough COVID infections to severe cases

More than 9,000 Americans tested positive for COVID-19 after being vaccinated.

fortune.com

 

[Hornberger]

That makes sense.
We do have at least a portion of the population having some level of vaccination now which will hopefully slow transmission rates and the severity of positive cases. If we can get this one under control quickly and continue the vaccine rollout we can hopefully avoid lockdowns in the near future.

Currently about 15% of Victorian have received one dose, of those a significant number will not have had time to develop immunity, and even fewer have received the second dose. At population level, the risk of transmission is probably reduced by ~5%. Not enough to make a meaningful difference.

 

[Seeds]

Meanwhile, in the USA we now will have no idea how effective the Pfizer, Moderna and J&J vaccines are. The CDC has decided not to bother to collect stats of infected vaccinated people, only severe infections.

Ridiculous.

The CDC is limiting reviews of reported breakthrough COVID infections to severe cases

Federal health officials this month decided to limit how they monitor vaccinated people who have been infected with COVID-19, drawing concern from some scientists who say that may mean missing needed data showing why and how it happens.

The CDC is limiting reviews of rare breakthrough COVID infections to severe cases

More than 9,000 Americans tested positive for COVID-19 after being vaccinated.

fortune.com

But who cares about minor infections? It’s only severe that matters.

 

[faible]

But who cares about minor infections? It’s only severe that matters.

Data and research cares, it's a relevant metric as part of assessing the benefits of a vaccine rollout.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

But who cares about minor infections? It’s only severe that matters.

People with minor infections still pass it on to others potentially killing people.

 

[Seeds]

People with minor infections still pass it on to others potentially killing people.

And that would show up in other people being killed.

 

[Frank Bunn]

But who cares about minor infections? It’s only severe that matters.

We've had 18 months of panic and authoritarian measures due to 'cases' ie infections without any symptoms. Now, in the post vaccine world we are supposed to care only about severe cases?

 

[yebiga]

So i have 2 shots of AZ and i am now Covid positive. Very mild with CT score (Crankyhawk might know better) of 31. I have no symptoms but now i have to self isolate for 2 weeks

So what is the point of the vaccine?

 

[MrKK]

We've had 18 months of panic and authoritarian measures due to 'cases' ie infections without any symptoms. Now, in the post vaccine world we are supposed to care only about severe cases?

Better late than never.

 

[Registered User]

Does no one see the idiocy of all of us giving opinions on virology, me then posting a video of a guy who won a Nobel Prize in virology, people here saying he is wrong and then going on to talk about temperatures impact on virology in the context that we have no idea what it means or does
Like how arrogant can we be?

Ha ha, it's like all the armchair experts poo-poohing Dr. Rodger Hodkinson, et al

 

[Crankyhawk]

So what is the point of the vaccine?

To not be severely ill (TP mentioned his friend who is in ICU with covid, unvaccinated)

 

[yebiga]

Does no one see the idiocy of all of us giving opinions on virology, me then posting a video of a guy who won a Nobel Prize in virology, people here saying he is wrong and then going on to talk about temperatures impact on virology in the context that we have no idea what it means or does

Like how arrogant can we be?

This refrain, to follow the science is the standard argument from all sides.
Trouble is that there seems to be an expert out there somewhere who is endorsing every perspective you can imagine - no matter how wild.

Science, whilst extraordinarily powerful, is always limited. The human mind percieves a limited amount of data and it can only arrange data within prevailing paradigms, whilst, the undetected data is infinite in both size and unrecogniseds narrative. We are surrounded by the problem of complexity and we resolve it by choosing the most functional behaviour. This may be given the status of truth and authority but it is always - across a sufficient span of time - likely to be a temporary truth, subject to reinterpretation when behaviours that render greater functionality emerge.

When science is confronted with a problem that reveals a new dysfunction (illness) - the problem of complexity re-emerges. By definition the scientific experts will flounder - because by definition the prevailing understanding is inadequate. The experts will splinter as they search for the most functional solution. All this is evident today in response to the real or imagined COVID phenomena.

The challenge is how to sensibly navigate thru this period and avoid the numerous errors, pitfalls, blind alleys that must inevitably arise throughtout the scientific community as it scurries for answers before it finally can coalesce around a new functional consensus. In the interim, the tools available for society to adapt whilst it waits for science is the strict application of ethics, honesty and common sense. And for now, as far as COVID is concerned, we are not doing so well with either ethics or honesty.

 

[yebiga]

To not be severely ill (TP mentioned his friend who is in ICU with covid, unvaccinated)

That would be conclusive proof of....?
If the vaccine does not prevent spread but merely reduce it's severity if contracted - are there not many other therapeutics and behaviours that do the same? Why aren't they then given any billing. In the USA, something over half the covid dead were technically obese. For those people, exercise and diet are surely as effective in reducing the effects of covid as these vaccines. It is essentially what you are saying, is it not? Then, why are these obese not encouraged to walk more, eat less and only encouraged to vaccinate?

Further, if the vaccine only reduces severity, why the pressure to vaccinate? Why are the covid passports being considered if all the vaccine achieves is a reduction in severity?

 

[Crankyhawk]

That would be conclusive proof of....?
If the vaccine does not prevent spread but merely reduce it's severity if contracted - are there not many other therapeutics and behaviours that do the same? Why aren't they then given any billing. In the USA, something over half the covid dead were technically obese. For those people, exercise and diet are surely as effective in reducing the effects of covid as these vaccines. It is essentially what you are saying, is it not? Then, why are these obese not encouraged to walk more, eat less and only encouraged to vaccinate?

Further, if the vaccine only reduces severity, why the pressure to vaccinate? Why are the covid passports being considered if all the vaccine achieves is a reduction in severity?

You are an idiot if you think you can meaningfully going to modify morbid obesity by diet and exercise.

 

[yebiga]

You are an idiot if you think you can meaningfully going to modify morbid obesity by diet and exercise.

Obviously

 

[Schneebly11]

Does no one see the idiocy of all of us giving opinions on virology, me then posting a video of a guy who won a Nobel Prize in virology, people here saying he is wrong and then going on to talk about temperatures impact on virology in the context that we have no idea what it means or does

Like how arrogant can we be?

Luc Montagnier went downhill after his Nobel. He’s now a full blown conspiracy theorist shunned by mainstream science. Anti-vaxxer, homeopath, Covid truther, believer in teleportation, radio waves controlling humans etc

Don’t know why he cracked, mental degradation, illness, stress, whatever he’s now a full blown quack shunned by his peers. They openly call him an idiot