Autopsy Round 16, 2022: Carlton v St.Kilda

[CursingFijian]

Hill injured his right ankle at the start of the 3rd. Definitely affected his kicking. Didn't stop running and presenting.

Yeah, I didn’t see when he copped a knock but that bit where he was stamping his foot behind the goals looked like he was trying to get rid of the pins and needles. Or get his boot back on properly. Couldn’t make head or tails of it.

You’re right though he kept working hard and was instrumental for us, particularly in the first.

 

[gringo2011]

I’m knocking battle but McKay didn’t score when Howard was on him. Well he got a point when Howard got injured. I really like battle but I don’t like him that deep. Joyce will have to come in next week. And yes some were impossible to stop.

I don't think anyone wants him as a full time full back, he just held the fort manfully despite being outsized and with a pretty patchwork zone around him. There was a minute there where the Blues saw a real opportunity to score a lot and went hard at us. Guys like Battle, Highmore and Webster stood up when needed and repelled brilliantly. Like you say if repeat entries are coming in it's because the next line is tiring and not winning the ball.

 

[stavro#4]

Just a few observations from my first game in three years.

Carlton is better than us, better forward line, better mids, backline probably about the same if Weitering had been playing, we had the better ruck.
Yet we won.

Shout out to the coaching.

We would not win that game under Richo.
We would not win that game under Ratten in 2020, nor the first half of 2021.

The fact we won last night is not as important as how we won.
That game was all about tempo, uncontested possession and stoppage.
We were on top when we controlled all three and prevented Carlton playing slingshot football.

Shout out to the players.

NWS and Windhager will be footballers.

Hill played a great game but he has a fragility to him that can be exploited.

Sinclair: enough said.

Enright brought all the defenders into a huddle prior to the game: Leadership.

Where Carlton wasted their opportunities in the third, we wasted ours in the first.
Should have been 7:2 not 3:6.

People criticising Finnis etc for being too woke really need to get a grip.
For Carlton, last night was all about Gender Equality.

And….

I had forgotten just how noisy Saints supporters could be.

Fantastic game to wait three years for.

I don’t think Carlton are better then us. Infact I see us as a side that is level with them in the wash.

I.e our good stuff is great and the bad stuff is putrid.

They give me Stkilda 04 vibes. Great top end. Lots of injuries. But can they get to a high enough level and put it together consistently?

Where as I think we are another 12 months off getting into a collingwood 2010 style side. Even contribution from a number of players. We genuinely have 3 very good to elite level talents in Owens NWM and Windhager.

The blues midfield has more star level players. But we have more stars on the outside even though it’s hard not to think Docherty or even Saad as good footballers. Hill and Sinclair in particular are just different mustard. You genuinely cannot afford to have both of them off the leash.

One area that sets us apart completely and I’m even going to say will be the difference between us achieving anything of note or falling away is the small forwards. Butler + Higgins.

Higgins has been shit for a little bit. Still kicked a couple.

Butler just played his best game since 2020. People get annoyed because he cheats forward. THATS OKAY. That enables his creativity and speed to come to the fore. It’s only an issue when 3-4 others start cheating too. But defensively he has been brilliant for the last couple of weeks.

Lastly, Ryder is a gun. But Marshall is a star follower and I wonder when the penny will drop in terms of how we use both of them. Genuinely the split between them sees Marshall forward more and I think that doesn’t give us enough value as allowing Marshall more time Onball.

Great game of football last night. That would have been a classic finals game. I’m not buying into Carlton’s poor kicking for goal cost them,when our own poor kicking ensured it wasn’t over at Quarter time.

Genuine concerns next week on how to handle Fyfe Taberner and Lobb without Dougal.

 

[gringo2011]

Horses for courses, Naughton and Ugle Hagan next week. Not sure Joyce can really play on either. Almost stick with Battle for Naughton and accept that he’ll get done in the air, rely on Wilkie to intercept if battle can stop Naughton’s run.

Edit - we have freo next week, Joyce seems ideal for taberner to me.

I can't think who usually plays Naughton but Wilkie actually looks the ideal. He's good on those mobile elusive types and Naughton's kryptonite is guys who wear him. If he gets a sniff he's found space in the blink of an eye. You know Wilks would hang off him all day. Irish is surprisingly agile for his size though too, probably not ideal for his confidence though.

 

[Sippa]

Only neg for me and I’ll start this by saying seb Ross has been good this year , I think because he stopped over complicating his ball use and took the first option

Last 3 weeks he’s gone back to old seb and last night he was turnover king … crowd yelling out don’t let him think about it were torching him

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Carlton won the free kick count 21 - 9. Umpiring was clearly favouring the Blues. Despite that, the booing by their fans was outta control, and was doing my head in.

Well done Saints.

It was farcical at times… Carlscum giving bronx cheers after they get their 5th free kick in a row.

The dumbest supporter group by a mile.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gringo2011]

I don’t think Carlton are better then us. Infact I see us as a side that is level with them in the wash.

I.e our good stuff is great and the bad stuff is putrid.

They give me Stkilda 04 vibes. Great top end. Lots of injuries. But can they get to a high enough level and put it together consistently?

Where as I think we are another 12 months off getting into a collingwood 2010 style side. Even contribution from a number of players. We genuinely have 3 very good to elite level talents in Owens NWM and Windhager.

The blues midfield has more star level players. But we have more stars on the outside even though it’s hard not to think Docherty or even Saad as good footballers. Hill and Sinclair in particular are just different mustard. You genuinely cannot afford to have both of them off the leash.

One area that sets us apart completely and I’m even going to say will be the difference between us achieving anything of note or falling away is the small forwards. Butler + Higgins.

Higgins has been s**t for a little bit. Still kicked a couple.

Butler just played his best game since 2020. People get annoyed because he cheats forward. THATS OKAY. That enables his creativity and speed to come to the fore. It’s only an issue when 3-4 others start cheating too. But defensively he has been brilliant for the last couple of weeks.

Lastly, Ryder is a gun. But Marshall is a star follower and I wonder when the penny will drop in terms of how we use both of them. Genuinely the split between them sees Marshall forward more and I think that doesn’t give us enough value as allowing Marshall more time Onball.

Great game of football last night. That would have been a classic finals game. I’m not buying into Carlton’s poor kicking for goal when our own poor kicking ensured it wasn’t over at Quarter time.

Genuine concerns next week on how to handle Fyfe Taberner and Lobb without Dougal.

Tabs will do a knee walking to his car or something by then. Lobb could probably get Irish, Fyfe v Wilkie or Highmore. If Tabbs gets up Battle should be able to at least go with him. To me it's their smalls that do the most damage. We might need to bring in Paton again but Highmore doesn't deserve to go out.

 

[gringo2011]

Only neg for me and I’ll start this by saying seb Ross has been good this year , I think because he stopped over complicating his bank use and took the first option

Last 3 weeks he’s gone back to old seb and last night he was turnover king … crowd yelling out don’t let him think about it were torching him

I thought he was our best player last week and again was serviceable but made a few mistakes last night with his high kicking. I thought Crouch was more disappointing last night. Seemed to go missing for patches.

 

[XhazzafootyX]

Watching the replay now. Carlton fans were cheering when they got a free kick

 

[gringo2011]

I might be on my own but I don’t rate hills kicking.

He's one that has sometimes elite and sometimes mind bogglingly bad kicking. He kicks at full pace better than most but occasionally he just does stupefying kicks that seem to hit the opposition up.

 

[Tyrian Lonestar]

How dafaq has Highmore not been playing this year

 

[Kilroy]

Reminded me of this ….

 

[SteeleSaints]

Especially seeing as they just weren't consistent. King pushed out and gave away a free for it fine, but then at the other end it wasn't a free any more. Holding the ball before they took the ball. Holding the ball with out prior then with heap of prior not given. I thought it was absolutely terrible.

Against Sydney they scrag, hold, push and block and that's legal. This week the slightest infringement is a free. I don't mind a lop sided count but I mind a lopsided adjudication.

Agree Gringo.

The club need to get vocal about this continued inbalance and shine the light on the inequalities. Even if it costs them a fine they cant let it continue.

The biaised adjudication has become a real issue and needs to be addressed.

 

[phantom13]

I can't think who usually plays Naughton but Wilkie actually looks the ideal. He's good on those mobile elusive types and Naughton's kryptonite is guys who wear him. If he gets a sniff he's found space in the blink of an eye. You know Wilks would hang off him all day. Irish is surprisingly agile for his size though too, probably not ideal for his confidence though.

Personally think Battle as the stand and harass all day (especially cause he’s happy to engage before the ball gets there which is Naughtons most hated thing) with Wilkie and Highmore to drift in.

Truthfully Wilkie on Ugle Hagan just means Wilkie can get a double on Naughton all day.

There are some options for us with that though which is good

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

He's one that has sometimes elite and sometimes mind bogglingly bad kicking. He kicks at full pace better than most but occasionally he just does stupefying kicks that seem to hit the opposition up.

it is strange he genuinely does kick better on the sprint. when he gets the stop and prop opportunity he sprays it

 

[stavro#4]

He's one that has sometimes elite and sometimes mind bogglingly bad kicking. He kicks at full pace better than most but occasionally he just does stupefying kicks that seem to hit the opposition up.

The issue and I can tell you this because I’ve seen it be instructed and drilled into him and the team.

Is they want Hill and Sinclair to take the aggressive kick.

I’m talking the 45 degree into the corridor off one step or at full speed. High degree of difficulty stuff

 

[gringo2011]

Agree Gringo.

The club need to get vocal about this continued inbalance and shine the light on the inequalities. Even if it costs them a fine they cant let it continue.

The biaised adjudication has become a real issue and needs to be addressed.

It seems to be much worse since they silenced any form of questioning of decisions. I can't remember a season where so many games have been noticeably one sided. I watch other matches and I sometimes have to turn off because the unfairness gives me anxiety watching it. It's ruing my enjoyment of watching the contest. The best matches are when you don't notice the umpiring. I haven't seen many of those this year.

The problem with it is that it looks like they are instructed by head office on who they want to win, the umpires have petty vendettas against certain teams or that they are match fixing. The AFL need to do something about it soon or people will switch off.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

 

[gringo2011]

The issue and I can tell you this because I’ve seen it be instructed and drilled into him and the team.

Is they want Hill and Sinclair to take the aggressive kick.

I’m talking the 45 degree into the corridor off one step or at full speed. High degree of difficulty stuff

I said last night that I want Hill to do that. I'd rather go down fighting than what ever last week was. Fast and brave has won the last 5 years worth of premierships.

 

[stavro#4]

View attachment 1437611

Clearly took his ability from his mum and not his old man.

 

[Sippa]

If windhager ends up getting25 touches a week in his career he will be a genuine superstar …. He’s ridiculous in traffic so powerful through his legs

Will be an awesome full time mid

 

[gringo2011]

View attachment 1437611

Sleazy Oedipal Sideeye.

 

[Ricochet]

I might be on my own but I don’t rate hills kicking.

That's fair your opinion he does miss the 45 a bit to much but in general I think his kicking is quite good

 

[phantom13]

He's one that has sometimes elite and sometimes mind bogglingly bad kicking. He kicks at full pace better than most but occasionally he just does stupefying kicks that seem to hit the opposition up.

Sinclair only really rarely goes for the bullet wormburner, more often does the Rob harvey pop it into the leading players space.

Hill almost always goes the hard flat kick when he’s stationary or has time it’s so hard to hit that kick when you’re decelerating. When he’s going flat out he takes a bit off the kick. It’s really counter intuitive

 

[plugger66]

It probably is harsh on Billings because he's never really bad. He's a good ordinary player. About 5 or 6 times he seemed to kill our fast movement while he stood and overcooked the next kick though. Membrey does it as well. To me it's probably how both learnt to play under Richo and might be repairable. Membrey has got better recently and Ross was doing it last year but not this season.

Every club has good ordinary players. He is rated by his pick number which isn’t his fault. I still think he will play a vital role when we are actually a good side