List Mgmt. Contracts, trades, draft - 2022 superstar edition

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players -

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

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[Obeanie1]

We should take Fiorini from the Suns. Would come cheapish.

Brodie 2.0, in that I can see similar performances for a second club.

Think we could do better than Fiorini. Robertson for a start. And we only need one mature inside mid traded in. We have just drafted Culley and should draft another. That is 3 young inside mids on top of Clark as well. We need to address alot of areas.

 

[random260]

Fiorini is a fantasy gun can't believe GCS drop him. Averages more then 100 points a game

 

[dinnaz]

And that supports what I said earlier. Now until end of 2024 is a world of salary cap pain.

Agree that come end of 2024 things clear up as we offload the huge salaries that are currently killing us. It's up until then we suffer.

And the things that absolutely sh*t me are...
1) a lot of people saw this coming; and
2) we are not getting anything like value out of these guys (Except JD).

I've long held the belief that player salaries lag performance and output for young guys and performance and output lags salaries for old guys. With young guys you get value+ for money while old guys are fading away in both output and durability while still commanding the big bucks.
Therefore an old, overpaid list will generally underperform what they are being paid. WCE 2022 anyone?

Always, yet you have to pay for the recent form with big $$$. It's why you may as well play a 2nd year player as a tagger/development than jam another mid onnto the half fwd line.

 

[Godfather32]

Their big deals do. They'll go around again but surely on nowhere near the coin.

Who knows though? Maybe their deals all got extended until 2025 and we just didn't get told

 

[Obeanie1]

Word on the Suns board, is that some of their fringe players are for sale, with a second round pick attached.

The bigger the contract, the higher the attached pick.

Fiorini one of the names mentioned.

Wonder if Sharp is on that list?

Not sold on Fiorini but if it landed us another 2nd rounder it would be worth the effort.

 

[DanWCE]

absolute ball butcher

Worse than Gaff? I'll take a tackling, clearance machine ball butcher over what Gaffs given us this year.

 

[jesterwester]

Getting that second rounder of Ports is really turning out to be an excellent deal by the day.

Gives us either another top 30 choice or genuine currency to use on a known quantity.

I like Fiorini- in my mind a decent redden replacement. I would prefer Dev- but if he was the player we went after I think he would be used in our midfield.

 

[briztoon]

Must be a reason he's in and out of the side though

Rowell, Anderson, Swallow, Miller.

Mostly Rowell and Miller.

 

[dinnaz]

We should take Fiorini from the Suns. Would come cheapish.

Brodie 2.0, in that I can see similar performances for a second club.

Much more outside though more like Gaff when we play him onball & he cant kick

 

[wooshwhisperer]

Every one of those players on good contracts earned them and most have performed pretty well. NN was B&F twice, Kelly, Darling and McGovern have been reliably very good. Shuey and Yeo affected by injuries is the most disappointing. Only Gaff really fell off a cliff.

Liam Ryan hasn't fallen off the cliff, but every contest I'm sure he thinks he's staring into the abyss.

 

[CoastersFlag No.5]

Must be a reason he's in and out of the side though

Well he has a few quality mids to get past Anderson, Lemmens, Miller, Rowell, Davies. Then Hollands and Flanders have both been given opportunities. Plus his numbers have been down this year compared to his career average. He has more turnovers and a lower disposal efficiency and less possessions than Redden on average.

 

[kaiserchief13]

Would Essendon accept Gaff for Parish?

 

[Obeanie1]

And that supports what I said earlier. Now until end of 2024 is a world of salary cap pain.

Agree that come end of 2024 things clear up as we offload the huge salaries that are currently killing us. It's up until then we suffer.

And the things that absolutely sh*t me are...
1) a lot of people saw this coming; and
2) we are not getting anything like value out of these guys (Except JD).

I've long held the belief that player salaries lag performance and output for young guys and performance and output lags salaries for old guys. With young guys you get value+ for money while old guys are fading away in both output and durability while still commanding the big bucks.
Therefore an old, overpaid list will generally underperform what they are being paid. WCE 2022 anyone?

In a world of salary cap pain? Stop overreacting.

We need to pay min 95% of the cap to someone.

To trade in a big $ recruit costs multiple top picks which we desperately need to invest in developing kids for at least two or three drafts. Cant do both can we? Especially after the Kelly trade.

So we miss out in potentially buying a free agent. Who are how old? For one season. Maybe.

And the word is we have matched the $ offer of Jackson to Freo. If we can do that we can buy a free agent now as well if Jackson goes to Freo.

So this world of pain you are describing sounds like a load of media driven over reaction. We need to hit the draft and pay minimum cap. So its not as big an issue as you are imagining. For 1 to 2 years. Then we have too much free cap space and no-one currently worth paying, at the end of 2024.

 

[Godfather32]

In a world of salary cap pain? Stop overreacting.

We need to pay min 95% of the cap to someone.

To trade in a big $ recruit costs multiple top picks which we desperately need to invest in developing kids for at least two or three drafts. Cant do both can we? Especially after the Kelly trade.

So we miss out in potentially buying a free agent. Who are how old? For one season. Maybe.

And the word is we have matched the $ offer of Jackson to Freo. If we can do that we can buy a free agent now as well if Jackson goes to Freo.

So this world of pain you are describing sounds like a load of media driven overreaction. We need to hit the draft and pay minimum cap. So its not as big an issue as you are imagining. For 1 to 2 years. Then we have too much cap and no-one currently worth paying, at the end of 2024.

Where'd you hear that?

 

[FKASC]

Worse than Gaff? I'll take a tackling, clearance machine ball butcher over what Gaffs given us this year.

He’s not though. Nothing like Brodie. He’s like Dalziell Mk2

 

[WCErevival]

I reckon if we have matched the offer to Jackson, its at the expense of some of our seniors. Like Shuey or possibly Nic Nat. Really doubt we could afford it otherwise.

 

[CoastersFlag No.5]

Wonder if Sharp is on that list?

Not sold on Fiorini but if it landed us another 2nd rounder it would be worth the effort.

Sharp is contracted till end of 2023.

 

[lifesaver]

2 first rounders - this year and next year.

Done
Where do we sign

On SM-G991B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Obeanie1]

Sharp is contracted till end of 2023.

So is Fiorini.

Thats the point of a salary cap dump and paying someone a pick to take someone off your books.

 

[Avalor]

Sharp is contracted till end of 2023.

Pity

 

[HoneyBadger35]

2 first rounders - this year and next year.

For which leg?

 

[Keys]

I’m not overly enamoured with all of Naitanui, Hurn, Redden, Shuey and Gaff continuing next year as it appears they will, however :

• Gaff has 2 years left on his contract and is unlikely to attract any trade interest so like it or not we’re stuck with him. I also find it hard to bag a player who stayed loyal to us and gave us some very very good football along the way
• Naitanui is needed because our ruck stocks are paper thin and he’s only a year removed from b2b B&F wins. Yes he could slim down a little and get fitter but he’s not Robinson Crusoe on that front
• Redden is likely going to finish top 5 in our B&F, is durable and has reportedly hit a contract trigger for 2023. He provides good depth and has already stated he’s happy to be a mentor in the WAFL if that’s how it plays out.
• Hurn, despite his age, has routinely been among our best each week. Provides great leadership around the club and is an ideal mentor for our young defenders
• Shuey is the most vulnerable due to his soft tissue problems that have robbed him of the explosiveness that was such an important and damaging part of his game. He has however played the last 12 games since returning to the side and like Hurn he provides positives around the club off field

As part of the rebuild it’s easy to point at Shuey and Hurn to say it’s time for the young guys to cut their teeth so thanks for your efforts and sayonara.

So what happens if one or both stay?

With Hurn, it likely means Witherden or Nelson doesn’t get a lifeline. Alternatively, if we cut both those two it creates a list position to be filled via the rookie draft. Does either of those scenarios outweigh another year of guidance? Maybe, but probably not

As for Shuey, it’s the same as Hurn except it’s one of West, Trew or Winder that gets a lifeline. Given his durability issues it’s a more marginal call

One thing is for certain though, aside from Gaff who has an existing contract they need to be on very much reduced money. Redden already took something of a shit sandwich this year so to an extent the other three need to follow suit - they’ve all been well rewarded but any new contracts should reflect their diminishing output and importance

In an ideal world we find a suitor for Gaff that he’s comfortable moving to

 

[Obeanie1]

Where'd you hear that?

We have a grand total of six players contracted beyond 2024 - Barrass (2027) and Allen, Kelly, Sheed, Cole and Chesser (2025).

Our salary cap beyond 2024 is essentially a blank canvas.

Unless Hough, Bazzo or Culley have a massive breakout year in 2023 I don’t think they’d be warranting a contract offer that is unmatchable

We’ve reportedly offered Jackson similar money to Fremantle (May or may not be true) but looks like he sees them as a better option. For us the issue with Jackson is less about money than it is the draft capital he’d cost given the current state of our list

English comes out of contract in 2024 and will be a free agent when he does. Right when most of our big money contracts are in the rear vision mirror opening the door for a big FA offering

Our salary cap is tight, a hangover from winning a flag and bringing Kelly in but it will ease at the same time Freo’s begins to tighten

 

[Godfather32]

We have a grand total of six players contracted beyond 2024 - Barrass (2027) and Allen, Kelly, Sheed, Cole and Chesser (2025).
Our salary cap beyond 2024 is essentially a blank canvas.
Unless Hough, Bazzo or Culley have a massive breakout year in 2023 I don’t think they’d be warranting a contract offer that is unmatchable

We’ve reportedly offered Jackson similar money to Fremantle (May or may not be true) but looks like he sees them as a better option. For us the issue with Jackson is less about money than it is the draft capital he’d cost given the current state of our list

English comes out of contract in 2024 and will be a free agent when he does. Right when most of our big money contracts are in the rear vision mirror opening the door for a big FA offering

Our salary cap is tight, a hangover from winning a flag and bringing Kelly in but it will ease at the same time Freo’s begins to tighten

Where'd you hear that?

 

[HoneyBadger35]

I’m not overly enamoured with all of Naitanui, Hurn, Redden, Shuey and Gaff continuing next year as it appears they will, however :

• Gaff has 2 years left on his contract and is unlikely to attract any trade interest so like it or not we’re stuck with him. I also find it hard to bag a player who stayed loyal to us and gave us some very very good football along the way
• Naitanui is needed because our ruck stocks are paper thin and he’s only a year removed from b2b B&F wins. Yes he could slim down a little and get fitter but he’s not Robinson Crusoe on that front
• Redden is likely going to finish top 5 in our B&F, is durable and has reportedly hit a contract trigger for 2023. He provides good depth and has already stated he’s happy to be a mentor in the WAFL if that’s how it plays out.
• Hurn, despite his age, has routinely been among our best each week. Provides great leadership around the club and is an ideal mentor for our young defenders
• Shuey is the most vulnerable due to his soft tissue problems that have robbed him of the explosiveness that was such an important and damaging part of his game. He has however played the last 12 games since returning to the side and like Hurn he provides positives around the club off field

As part of the rebuild it’s easy to point at Shuey and Hurn to say it’s time for the young guys to cut their teeth so thanks for your efforts and sayonara.

So what happens if one or both stay?

With Hurn, it likely means Witherden or Nelson doesn’t get a lifeline. Alternatively, if we cut both those two it creates a list position to be filled via the rookie draft. Does either of those scenarios outweigh another year of guidance? Maybe, but probably not

As for Shuey, it’s the same as Hurn except it’s one of West, Trew or Winder that gets a lifeline. Given his durability issues it’s a more marginal call

One thing is for certain though, aside from Gaff who has an existing contract they need to be on very much reduced money. Redden already took something of a s**t sandwich this year so to an extent the other three need to follow suit - they’ve all been well rewarded but any new contracts should reflect their diminishing output and importance

In an ideal world we find a suitor for Gaff that he’s comfortable moving to

To me, next season is year one of a rebuild that should take three years, ie finals on the agenda in 2025. We are currently in year zero of said rebuild.

Call it going all in on a flag, call it trying to squeeze one more song out of an established core, whatever the reasons and whatever your opinion on it, the fact is that the club did not come into this season with a list that was ready to rebuild. Clearly the first half of the season results and very large writing on the wall necessitated a change of strategy at the bye, which also lines up with a decisive change of external messaging from the club.

I understand why there are calls for ‘the hard decisions’ to be made, but these are decisions I don’t think we hugely benefit from in the short or long term. I think these are calls that just make it seem like we’re embracing the rebuild, but really sell ourselves short for no reason other than to make people feel better (until the losing resumes next year and everyone is miserable again).

What I mean by not being ready for a rebuild this year, and why this is year zero not year one, is that we don’t have the stocks to replace the ‘hard call’ players. I don’t think Shuey or Hurn going out, to be replaced by West or Rotham for example, helps us in the short, medium or long term. Our list is largely devoid of the young prospects that teams would be looking to blood in this situation (with a few gems mixed through).

I think Shuey/Naitanui/Hurn/Redden offer us more in bit parts and tutelage than culling them this offseason would offer us. The guys we would replace them with are the sort of depth that equally will not be part of our next window, and the older guys sign their short term extensions knowing very clearly the direction the club is going in and what their role is next year. Gaff is the elephant in the room but we’re tied to that deal at this point so all we can do is hope for the best, or pray someone wants a free player for a pick.

When all of Hurn/Shuey/Redden/Naitanui play on in 2024, that’s when the alarm bells ring loud enough that even our ageing members can hear them.

In my mind this offseason will be ten in/ten out (five main list changes and a massive rookie list churn). We’re in year zero, and this offseason is about setting up the right foundations to launch into a decisive rebuild. I don’t think the approach of reading someone’s birth certificate and making a list call based on the date of birth is a smart universal policy for success.