List Mgmt. Contracts, trades, draft - 2022 superstar edition

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players -

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

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[CoastersFlag No.5]

What a ridiculous post. We have the second oldest list in the league and are going to re - sign every player over the age of 27 bar Kennedy and you are calling that Year 1 of a rebuild. Hilarious. And we will probably only cull the minimum number of players off our main list that you are required to which is 4. And the other 3 bar Kennedy will probably be 21 year olds that have played 5 games each. Sorry, but that is not a rebuild.

The other parts of your post are equally hilarious and full of garbled logic. What is the point of hanging on to the old players for one more year if we are not in a flag window? It is generally accepted that young players won't win their position on the ground for your consistently until you have invested at least 50 games in them. Their best footy usually comes around the 100 - 150 game mark. Hanging on to all the old players for one more year just means that at the end of 2023 that next group of our 5 or 6 best young players underneath who currently outside the 22 has 20 games less experience and are 20 more games further away from 50 plus games experience than they would otherwise be. And for what benefit? So we can avoid the pain and hurt feelings from tapping guys on the shoulder? The club administrators are supposed to be looking after the club's interests, not individual players. Or so we can eke out an extra win or two next year and finish 14th instead of 17th?

And what is this "decisive change in external messaging" you speak of? Perhaps you missed the Gibbs interview on ABC. He predicted a "rapid rebound", brought up the subject of making the 8 next year and indicated he thinks it is more likely than not and also made it clear that the club does not agree with the general consensus about the dire state of the list. He speaks like a politician because those guys have all had media training and basically are politicians. He won't put his balls on the table like a BF poster and box himself into a corner by making direct declerative statements that can come back to haunt him. But the things he chooses to talk about and not talk about and the wording he chooses to use and not use is what they use to communicate. You are probably too dopey to read it and understand what is being said. Or you will filter out all the parts that don't fit your pre existing biases. But what he is saying is that the club does not think it is in rebuild mode and thinks the list is still competitive and capable of making the 8. But he is being just vague enough so that if the bottom falls out next year and we are contending for a spoon again he can do what politicians call a Reverse Ferret where you completely change your position 180 degrees overnight and deny ever having had a different position on the issue. Which lines up perfectly with what has been said by every other person from the club interviewed this year. They are all blaming Covid and injuries. They are all clinging to what psychologists call an external locus of control, i.e. everything that happens and has hapenned is caused by external circumstances and forces and i have no responsibility for or control over any of it and all i can do is just sit here and cry and wait for the world to stop being unfair to me. It is sickenning to listen to. None of them mention or bring up the need for internal improvement and change within the club. All of their focus is on being upset at external factors.

A rebuild means voluntarily taking pain in the present in order to have a better future or accelerate the timeline towards a better future. It means being willing to finish bottom 4 next year and the year after instead of 14th or whatever in order to be able to get back in the top 8 in 3 years time instead of 5 years time. What you are pushing is the opposite of that. You are suggesting avoiding pain in the present and putting the blinders on and pretending that the pain avoidance won't slow down the regeneration.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

View attachment 1477694

I like where he predicted minimal delistings and then melted about it like it had actually happened.

 

[HoneyBadger35]

I like where he predicted minimal delistings and then melted about it like it had actually happened.

How could your favourite part not be the Eagles hierarchy pulling a “Reverse Ferret”.

I also liked our delisting of Kennedy and three 21 year olds. There is one 21 year old on our list.

 

[CoastersFlag No.5]

I like where he predicted minimal delistings and then melted about it like it had actually happened.

I love the passion but I think the excuses in 22 expire in pre-season 23. Bit early to go full rant.

 

[dajesmac]

To me, next season is year one of a rebuild that should take three years, ie finals on the agenda in 2025. We are currently in year zero of said rebuild.

Call it going all in on a flag, call it trying to squeeze one more song out of an established core, whatever the reasons and whatever your opinion on it, the fact is that the club did not come into this season with a list that was ready to rebuild. Clearly the first half of the season results and very large writing on the wall necessitated a change of strategy at the bye, which also lines up with a decisive change of external messaging from the club.

I understand why there are calls for ‘the hard decisions’ to be made, but these are decisions I don’t think we hugely benefit from in the short or long term. I think these are calls that just make it seem like we’re embracing the rebuild, but really sell ourselves short for no reason other than to make people feel better (until the losing resumes next year and everyone is miserable again).

What I mean by not being ready for a rebuild this year, and why this is year zero not year one, is that we don’t have the stocks to replace the ‘hard call’ players. I don’t think Shuey or Hurn going out, to be replaced by West or Rotham for example, helps us in the short, medium or long term. Our list is largely devoid of the young prospects that teams would be looking to blood in this situation (with a few gems mixed through).

I think Shuey/Naitanui/Hurn/Redden offer us more in bit parts and tutelage than culling them this offseason would offer us. The guys we would replace them with are the sort of depth that equally will not be part of our next window, and the older guys sign their short term extensions knowing very clearly the direction the club is going in and what their role is next year. Gaff is the elephant in the room but we’re tied to that deal at this point so all we can do is hope for the best, or pray someone wants a free player for a pick.

When all of Hurn/Shuey/Redden/Naitanui play on in 2024, that’s when the alarm bells ring loud enough that even our ageing members can hear hem.

In my mind this offseason will be ten in/ten out (five main list changes and a massive rookie list churn). We’re in year zero, and this offseason is about setting up the right foundations to launch into a decisive rebuild. I don’t think the approach of reading someone’s birth certificate and making a list call based on the date of birth is a smart universal policy for success.

You don’t necessarily tell me things that I don’t already know, but you have a knack for organising your thoughts and articulating them in a very pleasing way.

 

[Obeanie1]

You really think port will trade MG to us for pick 20 ?

Secondly do you think we would do that ?

No and no. Unless we split pick 2 for serious overs, which is unlikely.

Thats why I said both were crazy.

So I couldnt see how we get Georgiades at at discount which is what you suggested was the only way it could happen.

Not having a go. Just saying I cant see how we get him at a discount. This year anyway.

What do you feel is his fair value? 14 to 15? This year.

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

I'd happily keep Shuey as a HFF who rotates through the midfield for 5 minutes per quarter to give a chop out.

On 500k a year ?

Also who's spot is he taking ? We have all of Rioli Ryan cripps and petch playing of the HFF . Also its a good place for rookies to cut their teeth.

Are we taking away game time from rookies with shuey in the team ?

 

[ziad]

No and no. Unless we split pick 2 for serious overs, which is unlikely.

Thats why I said both were crazy.

So I couldnt see how we get Georgiades at at discount which is what you suggested was the only way it could happen.

Not having a go. Just saying I cant see how we get him at a discount. This year anyway.

What do you feel is his fair value? 14 to 15? This year.

He would have to be an absolute bargain, If OA comes good (I expect he will) we have a higher need for class at his feet rather than an MG type. And this priority sits well below speed and class in the midfield (rucks included).

We need to be critical and only draft/trade to meet our needs, not just go bargain hunting. Sydney are e good example.

 

[Obeanie1]

He would have to be an absolute bargain, If OA comes good (I expect he will) we have a higher need for class at his feet rather than an MG type. And this priority sits well below speed and class in the midfield (rucks included).

We need to be critical and only draft/trade to meet our needs, not just go bargain hunting. Sydney are e good example.

Lets be honest. We need quality where ever we can get it and in every position bar a back pocket.

At some stage in the next 2 to 3 years we will need to bring in a tall forward or two.

But we wont be paying overs like we did for Kelly as we are not contending.

 

[Obeanie1]

On 500k a year ?

Also who's spot is he taking ? We have all of Rioli Ryan cripps and petch playing of the HFF . Also its a good place for rookies to cut their teeth.

Are we taking away game time from rookies with shuey in the team ?

Stop using $500k as Shuey's next deal. It wont be that high. Same with Hurn or Redden.

 

[ziad]

Lets be honest. We need quality where ever we can get it and in every position bar a back pocket.

At some stage in the next 2 to 3 years we will need to bring in a tall forward or two.

But we wont be paying overs like we did for Kelly as we are not contending.

To be honest, we are in a bad spot trhoht past success and draft positions. But we have a few positions that are well catered for and a few where we have good to great prospects. The remainder of the leist isnt AFL standard. Where AFL standard is to be able to compete well in finals. Basso looks good a prospect for example so with Barrass and Gov (aging) we wouldnt spent our chips this year on a tall defender I would suggest. Speed and real class with mid size players of half back, mids leading to speed on the half forward line (they all play mid and rotate) is our biggest weakness. Players who break lines and run both ways. Speed applies pressure and sets up attack.

Ruck is a risk.

Following up on the Sydney example, they deliberately pick up Hickey - plug and play. He dod ok against the Pies.

I guess another issue is that draftees this year may not play that much for a year so we are building to absolutely competing in 2023 - 2024??

Out of interest who is this top class back pocket player we have hidden?

Regardless, if we dont sort out the medical / S&C department it is all pointless. It is well beyond random bad luck.

 

[eagles rule]

Agree. That's my only concern, his size. Very similar to Darling and Waterman.

If one of those two left I'd be keen.

Height wise they are similar but a big difference is MG can elevate and take pack marks much like Ryan..


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[AsterixTheGaul]

Gold Coast are probably asking for a future second round pick.

So it’s Fiorini and one of their 3 second round picks this year, for a future second round pick.

At worst, you offer your future third round pick for Fiorini and which ever ends up worse, the Collingwood or Fremantle second round pick.

For Fiorini, I’d be offering the Suns a future second for Fiorini and two of their second rounders this year. Face facts they will be wanting he and his salary out.

Then we decide which of Hurn, Shuey and Redden we can afford.

This is a salary dump for the Suns plus a chance for them to transfer points 12 months.

With 4 second round picks, we would then be your preferred trade option for your R1 (currently pick 15). Trade the Pies and Freo r2 and our r3 to give you a decent premium then take 2, 15, 20 and 26 to the draft.

Four picks inside 30 plus Hough, Bazzo, Culley and possibly Chesser from the last 9 months is a good second year to a rebuild.

 

[Obeanie1]

To be honest, we are in a bad spot trhoht past success and draft positions. But we have a few positions that are well catered for and a few where we have good to great prospects. The remainder of the leist isnt AFL standard. Where AFL standard is to be able to compete well in finals. Basso looks good a prospect for example so with Barrass and Gov (aging) we wouldnt spent our chips this year on a tall defender I would suggest. Speed and real class with mid size players of half back, mids leading to speed on the half forward line (they all play mid and rotate) is our biggest weakness. Players who break lines and run both ways. Speed applies pressure and sets up attack.

Ruck is a risk.

Following up on the Sydney example, they deliberately pick up Hickey - plug and play. He dod ok against the Pies.

I guess another issue is that draftees this year may not play that much for a year so we are building to absolutely competing in 2023 - 2024??

Out of interest who is this top class back pocket player we have hidden?

Regardless, if we dont sort out the medical / S&C department it is all pointless. It is well beyond random bad luck.

Re back pocket we cant use good picks chasing them is my thoughts. We have the likes of Cole, JJ, Duggan, etc to fill that role. And chances are we will draft a mid or half back with potential but they dont quite make it and are pushed into a backpocket. Sam Butler is a good example. Sheppard is another. We drafted hoping for a decent mid but they ended up back in defense. They became very good defenders though.

 

[Chump Change]

Why do we want Fiorini? He's not good enough. Should not be entertaining him for more than a millisecond.

 

[Bacchus]

Why do we want Fiorini? He's not good enough. Should not be entertaining him for more than a millisecond.

To get the second rounders this year that come with him

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

To me, next season is year one of a rebuild that should take three years, ie finals on the agenda in 2025. We are currently in year zero of said rebuild.

Call it going all in on a flag, call it trying to squeeze one more song out of an established core, whatever the reasons and whatever your opinion on it, the fact is that the club did not come into this season with a list that was ready to rebuild. Clearly the first half of the season results and very large writing on the wall necessitated a change of strategy at the bye, which also lines up with a decisive change of external messaging from the club.

I understand why there are calls for ‘the hard decisions’ to be made, but these are decisions I don’t think we hugely benefit from in the short or long term. I think these are calls that just make it seem like we’re embracing the rebuild, but really sell ourselves short for no reason other than to make people feel better (until the losing resumes next year and everyone is miserable again).

What I mean by not being ready for a rebuild this year, and why this is year zero not year one, is that we don’t have the stocks to replace the ‘hard call’ players. I don’t think Shuey or Hurn going out, to be replaced by West or Rotham for example, helps us in the short, medium or long term. Our list is largely devoid of the young prospects that teams would be looking to blood in this situation (with a few gems mixed through).

I think Shuey/Naitanui/Hurn/Redden offer us more in bit parts and tutelage than culling them this offseason would offer us. The guys we would replace them with are the sort of depth that equally will not be part of our next window, and the older guys sign their short term extensions knowing very clearly the direction the club is going in and what their role is next year. Gaff is the elephant in the room but we’re tied to that deal at this point so all we can do is hope for the best, or pray someone wants a free player for a pick.

When all of Hurn/Shuey/Redden/Naitanui play on in 2024, that’s when the alarm bells ring loud enough that even our ageing members can hear them.

In my mind this offseason will be ten in/ten out (five main list changes and a massive rookie list churn). We’re in year zero, and this offseason is about setting up the right foundations to launch into a decisive rebuild. I don’t think the approach of reading someone’s birth certificate and making a list call based on the date of birth is a smart universal policy for success.

Not with your Mr Nice Guy approach to the oldies. They have done a great job but let us look forward.

Shuey has not got the right ability to be captain. Most important abilities he lacks is durability and availability. The captaincy needs to go to Barrass over the summer.

We have had Redden, Shuey, Gaff and Kelly for a large chuck of the last 2 months. Apart from this week in the first half, the oldies have hardly set the world alight!

We need to get games into our developing midfield of Culley, Chesser, XON and Hough. On top of that, we hopefully prioritise 2 top mids in the draft this year and want them to be given some AFL exposure. I fear Simmo will start his MC discussion with Credits in the Bank and once he has penned in Redden, Shuey, Sheed, Gaff and Kelly, there is only room for 2 of our developing mids.

The case for Hurn to stay is losing momentum. Long kicks down the line or chips to the pocket can be done by Duggan or Cole. I’d rather get more time in with Bazzo as 3rd tall and not Hurn. Hurn cannot take a quick forward and he seemed reluctant to take Fogarty meaning I’m not sure what sort of forward threat he takes. He intercepts a lot but is he really manning up? There again Hurn Duggan and Foley look to be guarding grass so maybe I am expecting my defenders to man up and that is a mistake.

 

[GIMINO]

What a ridiculous post. We have the second oldest list in the league and are going to re - sign every player over the age of 27 bar Kennedy and you are calling that Year 1 of a rebuild. Hilarious. And we will probably only cull the minimum number of players off our main list that you are required to which is 4. And the other 3 bar Kennedy will probably be 21 year olds that have played 5 games each. Sorry, but that is not a rebuild.

The other parts of your post are equally hilarious and full of garbled logic. What is the point of hanging on to the old players for one more year if we are not in a flag window? It is generally accepted that young players won't win their position on the ground for your consistently until you have invested at least 50 games in them. Their best footy usually comes around the 100 - 150 game mark. Hanging on to all the old players for one more year just means that at the end of 2023 that next group of our 5 or 6 best young players underneath who currently outside the 22 has 20 games less experience and are 20 more games further away from 50 plus games experience than they would otherwise be. And for what benefit? So we can avoid the pain and hurt feelings from tapping guys on the shoulder? The club administrators are supposed to be looking after the club's interests, not individual players. Or so we can eke out an extra win or two next year and finish 14th instead of 17th?

And what is this "decisive change in external messaging" you speak of? Perhaps you missed the Gibbs interview on ABC. He predicted a "rapid rebound", brought up the subject of making the 8 next year and indicated he thinks it is more likely than not and also made it clear that the club does not agree with the general consensus about the dire state of the list. He speaks like a politician because those guys have all had media training and basically are politicians. He won't put his balls on the table like a BF poster and box himself into a corner by making direct declerative statements that can come back to haunt him. But the things he chooses to talk about and not talk about and the wording he chooses to use and not use is what they use to communicate. You are probably too dopey to read it and understand what is being said. Or you will filter out all the parts that don't fit your pre existing biases. But what he is saying is that the club does not think it is in rebuild mode and thinks the list is still competitive and capable of making the 8. But he is being just vague enough so that if the bottom falls out next year and we are contending for a spoon again he can do what politicians call a Reverse Ferret where you completely change your position 180 degrees overnight and deny ever having had a different position on the issue. Which lines up perfectly with what has been said by every other person from the club interviewed this year. They are all blaming Covid and injuries. They are all clinging to what psychologists call an external locus of control, i.e. everything that happens and has hapenned is caused by external circumstances and forces and i have no responsibility for or control over any of it and all i can do is just sit here and cry and wait for the world to stop being unfair to me. It is sickenning to listen to. None of them mention or bring up the need for internal improvement and change within the club. All of their focus is on being upset at external factors.

A rebuild means voluntarily taking pain in the present in order to have a better future or accelerate the timeline towards a better future. It means being willing to finish bottom 4 next year and the year after instead of 14th or whatever in order to be able to get back in the top 8 in 3 years time instead of 5 years time. What you are pushing is the opposite of that. You are suggesting avoiding pain in the present and putting the blinders on and pretending that the pain avoidance won't slow down the regeneration.

Totallly agree with your post, some people believe we are running a charity, natinauni, shuey and hurn should be moved on at seasons end. Dont see the point into putting more games into them and leaving the younger blokes in the seconds/wafl next season.

 

[Chump Change]

To get the second rounders this year that come with him

Have GC said they want to salary dump and will offload him with a second rounder without sending a second rounder (or better back)? I did see someone mention then give us both their this year second rounder and us giving them our second rounder next year. Have GC indicated they want to do this, or are we playing war games with plastic army men from Toys'R'Us?

 

[lifesaver]

Lol

What would it take for us to get the dogs to trade us Bont? (without West Coast trading any good picks or players)

Well i don't think it was an unreasonable question. Sounds like a proper rebuild isn't something you want which is fine. Good luck with it all. Geelong have got away with older players and no rebuild. Maybe you can too.

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[The wily weagle]

So for examples sake, if North Melbourne lose by say, 2 goals, how much would the cats have to beat us by for us to finish last?

 

[Chump Change]

Well i don't think it was an unreasonable question. Sounds like a proper rebuild isn't something you want which is fine. Good luck with it all. Geelong have got away with older players and no rebuild. Maybe you can too.

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That's a snarky comment mate. Everyone here wants a rebuild. Some people don't want to trade TB just like you guys don't want to trade Naughton.

If your club wants him, they will have to contact TB's management, convince to leave his home state, reneg on a 5 year contract, remove himself from West Coast captaincy shortlist, and leave a big club for a piss-ant club. To do that your club (i.e. not your peanut supporters who don't have a say in anything) is going to have to offer a godfather deal.

If they do and he agrees, you get your man and we get well compensated. If not, then it's business as usual.

 

[shooshka]

Not with your Mr Nice Guy approach to the oldies. They have done a great job but let us look forward.

Shuey has not got the right ability to be captain. Most important abilities he lacks is durability and availability. The captaincy needs to go to Barrass over the summer.

We have had Redden, Shuey, Gaff and Kelly for a large chuck of the last 2 months. Apart from this week in the first half, the oldies have hardly set the world alight!

We need to get games into our developing midfield of Culley, Chesser, XON and Hough. On top of that, we hopefully prioritise 2 top mids in the draft this year and want them to be given some AFL exposure. I fear Simmo will start his MC discussion with Credits in the Bank and once he has penned in Redden, Shuey, Sheed, Gaff and Kelly, there is only room for 2 of our developing mids.

The case for Hurn to stay is losing momentum. Long kicks down the line or chips to the pocket can be done by Duggan or Cole. I’d rather get more time in with Bazzo as 3rd tall and not Hurn. Hurn cannot take a quick forward and he seemed reluctant to take Fogarty meaning I’m not sure what sort of forward threat he takes. He intercepts a lot but is he really manning up? There again Hurn Duggan and Foley look to be guarding grass so maybe I am expecting my defenders to man up and that is a mistake.

The other big problem is that at the end of 2023 we would almost certainly lose NN, Shuey, Redden and Hurn.

The argument to keep them is that they are all B22 (when fit), which is true, but if that remains so into late next year then we would have 4 basically untried players coming in for 2024. That's not a recipe for success in the next 3-5 years.

There may be some other contracted players we trade out (not sure who, or who would have value to other teams) but with our current list make-up I'm much more comfortable with the idea that we lose an older player too soon (even if they go to another club for 1-2 seasons) than holding them too long (which, it could be argued, has actually already occurred with a couple).

 

[mattyc75]

Where'd you hear that?

On here

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[Chump Change]

On here

On SM-G973F using BigFooty.com mobile app

It's legit then.