List Mgmt. Contracts, trades, draft - 2022 superstar edition

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players -

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

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[Jumpoff Joey]

What about if Port were to get pick 2 from us to land Horn Francis?

I suggest Norf could accept pick 2 for a first rounder who is not settling, won't extend and not showing the standards expected of an elite talent.

Port give us pick 8, the Amon FA compo likely to be 20/22 and Georgiades for pick 2.

Port have pick 8 which will still likely net us Clark/McKenzie/Hewett/possibly still Phillipou plus we get someone like Hotton/D'Aloia at 20/22 and Georgiardis. Yes it is a premium, but if they are so keen on local SA talent, then they might be willing. I'd even be OK swapping R3 picks - our 38 and Port are holding Saints R3.

Obviously if we get pick 1 it makes the deal with Norf even easier and looks less of a premium to us.

In other words, a three for 1 pick. What would you want
Option 1 - one of Wardlaw/Sheezel/Tsatas
Option 2 - Georgiades plus Clark plus Hotton

I'd do that deal (y)

Separately as for retirements; Nic Nat, should stay another year, we just dont have anyone else. Bailey is not good enough and no one else to take that spot 50/50 with Nic Nat. In saying that, if this is Callum Jaimeson, get him and keep him there!!!

Shuey - borderline, can retire years end but definitely next year.
Hurn been great this year and I would argue we dont have anyone else who takes his spot?
Redden - borderline, can retire years end but definitely next year.

I'd be having a conversation with guys that have done **** all, either delist or trade Nelson, Rotham, Witherden, SPS, Langdon ,Strnadica, Naish, Bailey and Petrueccuelle - Keeping these guys are accepting mediocrity.

Clark, Joyce, Trew, Winder, and West pick the best of and make sure they get a game. Otherwise, if they're arent playing our list manager should be adding them to list above.

XON, Foley, Hough, Edwards, Chesser and Culley are the only guys I see that will make it.

Retirements 2022: Shep, Kennedy (Shuey/Bunga/Redden)

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

North are every chance to beat the Suns.

Norf making sure they win the coveted #1 draft pick.

For three quarters they were the better team vs Adelaide and still lost by 5 goals. They won't win, regardless of the coaches have a wooden spoon mandate, whether the players don't give a shit or they're actually that shit.

 

[RanaNaved]

Well, we'll see. I don't know how he will turn out but his kicking is a massive red flag for me.

Tbh, like most here, I would go a midfielder. I've just seen a fair bit of Cadman and probably rate him more highly than most.

Also, the quicker we get a KF to go with Allen the better. Having two good KFs in their prime together would be great.

 

[shooshka]

What? Arent you proposing to get rid of them all straight away?

And what do you suggest we replace them all with? Picks 80+ and rookie selections? Duds from elsewhere?

North did what you are suggesting 4 years ago.

And the kids will get games, that was clearly explained.........and obviously ignored.

No, I'm proposing we don't get rid of them all together (either 2022 or 2023... both options are bad).

1 more year for all 4, means at least 3 (Hurn, Redden and Shuey) all leave together. Nic a massive chance to do something similar to JK also (form and ability still worthy of a game, body not up to it).

We really need to manage our retirements/exits. At least one has to go this year, leaving 3 next year (noting that JK already retiring along with Shep is essentially 3 'older' players off the list this season).

I still don't see the value (or likelihood) of paying Redden $300k to play WAFL. He'll be in good enough form to play seniors - so what does that do to the group when he is either not picked, or is picked at the expense of a player who isn't quite as good yet?

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

I still don't see the value (or likelihood) of paying Redden $300k to play WAFL. He'll be in good enough form to play seniors - so what does that do to the group when he is either not picked, or is picked at the expense of a player who isn't quite as good yet?

I think what’s being suggested is that he’s not an automatic selection. So if his form is good enough to play seniors, he can play seniors. If it’s not, he can play WAFL.

 

[Jumpoff Joey]

No, I'm proposing we don't get rid of them all together (either 2022 or 2023... both options are bad).

1 more year for all 4, means at least 3 (Hurn, Redden and Shuey) all leave together. Nic a massive chance to do something similar to JK also (form and ability still worthy of a game, body not up to it).

Actually, if you want to look that far ahead then extra names should be added post 2023;

Shuey/Bunga/Redden + Cripps. Cripps may go the following year but at that time I assume his future will also start to be questioned.

2024, will seriously be McGovern, Gaff under the microscope and even Yeo in the firing line depending if he cant get his body right either. And i am not actively trying to retire our stars but they're age and the output this year and lasts havent been great.

Thats alot of experience gone, but 5/8 kids by this time will have 50 games. Granted if we pick the right guys, big IF.

 

[FKASC]

I think what’s being suggested is that he’s not an automatic selection. So if his form is good enough to play seniors, he can play seniors. If it’s not, he can play WAFL.

It’s probably more likely to be:
His form isn’t really good enough, but the other options are too inexperienced or mediocre, so he plays seniors.

Not specific to Redden, but seems to be common when players are past their prime and the potential replacements are not strictly outperforming them

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

It’s probably more likely to be:
His form isn’t really good enough, but the other options are too inexperienced or mediocre, so he plays seniors.

Not specific to Redden, but seems to be common when players are past their prime and the potential replacements are not strictly outperforming them

Well that shouldn’t be the case next year. If his form doesn’t demand selection then he shouldn’t be getting games over O’Neill, Culley, pick 2 etc. Even if their form also doesn’t demand selection.

 

[FKASC]

Well that shouldn’t be the case next year. If his form doesn’t demand selection then he shouldn’t be getting games over O’Neill, Culley, pick 2 etc. Even if their form also doesn’t demand selection.

Hopefully!

 

[shooshka]

I think what’s being suggested is that he’s not an automatic selection. So if his form is good enough to play seniors, he can play seniors. If it’s not, he can play WAFL.

He'll be extremely unlucky if he finishes outside of our top-3 in the B&F this year. I know 12 months can be a long time in footy - but if he keeps playing as he is then his form is definitely B22. The issue being if that holds up development of a Chesser or pick #2 type player who is not-yet at the level, but needs time-in-the-side to improve.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

I gave my reasons for why I expect and am fine with them staying. None of them had to do with being nice or thanking them for their service with an extra year on the list, it has to do with the fact that we don’t benefit from it at all. As I say:



I won’t be upset if we move them all on this offseason, but I don’t think it helps us and it simply will not happen in any case. I’ve done my R1 2023 lineup and there’s still plenty of room for the kids even factoring in Gaff/Shuey/Hurn/Naitanui being in the MC’s plans, and the whole list being fully healthy which let’s face it is not happening.

We gain more by having these guys playing bit parts and teaching the kids every day at training than by cutting them now just because they owned cassette tapes growing up. They’ll be gone by 2024, the list will be more suited to exposing the kids by then, and the Culley/Chesser/Hough/Bazzo/Pick 2’s of the world will do well to learn from some former stars who’ve been there before while they can.

And what sort of salary would you be offering? Redden has had his hair cut but do you think the club would be prepared to offer the same to the last 2 captains? If we get away with $350k, I'd be more open to it. Reality is we have a tight salary cap and this would be a decent rate to transition them from their height of football days to retirement. As Eddie McGuire said, $350k might seem minor when to many players but it is a lot of money for an ex footballer.

As I said, if it was just a list call it means something different to Simmo's Credit in the Bank MC. He has shown an inability to help himself and has diminished the integrity at the selection table. It might sound that I am going to further reduce integrity at list and selection table but that is to right the prior wrongs.

Also do yourself a favour and add a year to all the players ages. You are showing their 2022 age and they will all be 1 year older - this after all is the 2023 Best 22. Including Yeo who turn 30 in 2023, your starting 18 includes 8 players who will be 30 or over in 2023. That does not sound like a club rebuilding.

I would also want to be playing the younger players in their position of choice. No more rucking Allen because he is too good to leave out. Look what it has done to his body. so Shuey and Redden might need to play a different position to allow Culley, Chesser and XON play their best position. BTW I did like your selection of Sheed on the HFF. His best football has been as a HFF/outside mid.

I like the idea of the oldies still on the list. I like the idea of Shuey and Redden teaching the young mids and Hurn teaching the defender. Can they be on the list and and Simmo pick them for WAFL games. Not all the time but certainly split their time so it is not taking games away from what we need to develop.

NicNat continuing is a no brainer since our next level rucks are not up to it. He also looks like a lumbering slow player (even slower that Darcy). Simpson game a smart ar$e comment on NicNat about his weight by stating he can still run at 34 kph.

All this can be debated. Reality is that we will supposedly have a new game plan. Are you expecting us to get better teaching the older players the key roles to be playing in a new game plan or would we be better teaching the players who will still be there in 2024 to play the new game plan?

 

[JackOutback]

If Hurns' happy to kick around another year on minimal coin he'd be worth keeping just for leadership off the field and developing the new youth.

We can't purge everyone as the depth just isn't there at the minute.

Gaff we should definitely shop around or just move on for nothing just to free up his salary (or part there of).

I feel like the backline has enough leadership in Barrass, McGovern, Duggan, potentially Yeo that keeping Hurn for the leadership isn't really a compelling argument.

 

[Obeanie1]

No, I'm proposing we don't get rid of them all together (either 2022 or 2023... both options are bad).

1 more year for all 4, means at least 3 (Hurn, Redden and Shuey) all leave together. Nic a massive chance to do something similar to JK also (form and ability still worthy of a game, body not up to it).

We really need to manage our retirements/exits. At least one has to go this year, leaving 3 next year (noting that JK already retiring along with Shep is essentially 3 'older' players off the list this season).

I still don't see the value (or likelihood) of paying Redden $300k to play WAFL. He'll be in good enough form to play seniors - so what does that do to the group when he is either not picked, or is picked at the expense of a player who isn't quite as good yet?

So you just want 1 more over 30 let go now and not next year?

Shuey I take it?

Well unless he has a bad injury that isnt happening.

Hurn's form and desire to play on is the surprise. And if a tough call was needed that where. It is a tricky situation because both Shuey and Hurn are captains / ex captains and great leaders. Something we need around the kids. Hurn should transition into a playing / coaching role.

 

[HoneyBadger35]

And what sort of salary would you be offering? Redden has had his hair cut but do you think the club would be prepared to offer the same to the last 2 captains? If we get away with $350k, I'd be more open to it. Reality is we have a tight salary cap and this would be a decent rate to transition them from their height of football days to retirement. As Eddie McGuire said, $350k might seem minor when to many players but it is a lot of money for an ex footballer.

Not much salary. Shuey was around the $800k mark according to yesterday HUN Rich List, which he’d absolutely earned at the time of signing, but of course it’s time for him to be on considerably less than that. Naitanui makes more money away from his contract than through it at this point I’m sure. Salary concerns are not a factor for me, these guys know the score. They’ll all be one year deals anyway, so we’ve got more money freed up in 2024, so be it.

Also do yourself a favour and add a year to all the players ages. You are showing their 2022 age and they will all be 1 year older - this after all is the 2023 Best 22. Including Yeo who turn 30 in 2023, your starting 18 includes 8 players who will be 30 or over in 2023. That does not sound like a club rebuilding.

Without wading into the dangerous “he’s 29 until he’s 30” territory, the ages I put in that team are as of Round 1, 2023. They are the age they are. I’ve already factored in that some of them will turn _____ by next season.

I would also want to be playing the younger players in their position of choice. No more rucking Allen because he is too good to leave out. Look what it has done to his body. so Shuey and Redden might need to play a different position to allow Culley, Chesser and XON play their best position. BTW I did like your selection of Sheed on the HFF. His best football has been as a HFF/outside mid.

Agreed, but we’ve also seen them approach this already. Redden playing exclusively wing when Culley was playing. Hough on the wing and Gaff at HFF. Shuey even got some time on HBF against the Suns! They’re showing signs of this already.

Allen will never ruck again, I think the club pretty much accepted that before his short term injury became a lost season.

I like the idea of the oldies still on the list. I like the idea of Shuey and Redden teaching the young mids and Hurn teaching the defender. Can they be on the list and and Simmo pick them for WAFL games. Not all the time but certainly split their time so it is not taking games away from what we need to develop.

NicNat continuing is a no brainer since our next level rucks are not up to it. He also looks like a lumbering slow player (even slower that Darcy). Simpson game a smart ar$e comment on NicNat about his weight by stating he can still run at 34 kph.

All this can be debated. Reality is that we will supposedly have a new game plan. Are you expecting us to get better teaching the older players the key roles to be playing in a new game plan or would we be better teaching the players who will still be there in 2024 to play the new game plan?

I think we’re better having the young players learn the future of the game plan, with the oldies supplementing them and showing them tricks of the trade. The spine of the team, Gov/Barrass/Kelly/Darling/Allen is playing whether we’re in win now mode or blood the kids mode. Culley was leading our centre bounce attendances when he played. Hough has played almost exclusively on the wing all year.

No issue with Hurn and Bazzo splitting time over the course of the season, while Hurn shows him the ropes. No issue with Shuey getting some coal face time (as well as HFF) while Chesser and Pick 2 get up to speed. Redden is an interesting one, I think his public comments of late show he’s very much aware he might be playing plenty of WAFL next year. Gaff is the big elephant in the room but we’re tied to his contract so how we use him is key. That’s the only one I don’t have faith in them getting right, sadly.

The list decisions to keep them are sound to me. How we use them is what it all hinges on, and I’ve seen enough since the bye to indicate that they largely know the correct path forward with getting minutes into these kids.

2021 (), 2022 and 2023 drafts are about acquiring the building blocks for the future. 2023 season is about gradually transitioning to these kids, without going full GC and throwing them to the wolves. 2024 is about going all in on the new boys. 2025 is finals. That’s the timeline in my head.

 

[CoastersFlag No.5]

Just more Will Ashcroft pushing Dev Robertson closer to the exit. Be interesting to see if we go for Fiorini or Robertson or hit the draft with our second rounders.

 

[briztoon]

Not with your Mr Nice Guy approach to the oldies. They have done a great job but let us look forward.

Shuey has not got the right ability to be captain. Most important abilities he lacks is durability and availability. The captaincy needs to go to Barrass over the summer.

We have had Redden, Shuey, Gaff and Kelly for a large chuck of the last 2 months. Apart from this week in the first half, the oldies have hardly set the world alight!

We need to get games into our developing midfield of Culley, Chesser, XON and Hough. On top of that, we hopefully prioritise 2 top mids in the draft this year and want them to be given some AFL exposure. I fear Simmo will start his MC discussion with Credits in the Bank and once he has penned in Redden, Shuey, Sheed, Gaff and Kelly, there is only room for 2 of our developing mids.

The case for Hurn to stay is losing momentum. Long kicks down the line or chips to the pocket can be done by Duggan or Cole. I’d rather get more time in with Bazzo as 3rd tall and not Hurn. Hurn cannot take a quick forward and he seemed reluctant to take Fogarty meaning I’m not sure what sort of forward threat he takes. He intercepts a lot but is he really manning up? There again Hurn Duggan and Foley look to be guarding grass so maybe I am expecting my defenders to man up and that is a mistake.

From what I have read, GC will want to move on 3 players, and have a list of players from which to choose.

Each player comes with a pick, with a future pick headed back the other way to GC.

I don’t believe anyone is getting two picks from GC for taking a player.

 

[briztoon]

Have GC said they want to salary dump and will offload him with a second rounder without sending a second rounder (or better back)? I did see someone mention then give us both their this year second rounder and us giving them our second rounder next year. Have GC indicated they want to do this, or are we playing war games with plastic army men from Toys'R'Us?

It’s been discussed on the GC board, started from someone with a club source at another club (Hawthorn), talking about what GC are shopping and offering.

 

[briztoon]

Is there any reasonable chance that Norf might get up and beat the Suns this week?

We have zero chance at Corio Bay so hoping we get a draft upgrade

No.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Gaff is the big elephant in the room but we’re tied to his contract so how we use him is key. That’s the only one I don’t have faith in them getting right, sadly.

This - Gaff is a real concern.

We have a player who elected to be loyal and stayed with us. The game of multiple 3 km time trials along the wings looks to be a thing of the past. Our movement of the ball high pressure new game plan is not really one that makes his selection clear.

We have a player on about $800k that we do not know how and where to play him. As an inside mid or when at stoppages, he is awful.

I think we can still use him and we need to go back to his strengths. He can run (at a gentle speed) all day and is very good with link up play. Short passing he is accurate (providing he is not too close to the contest and starts kicking around corners. He excels at uncontested football so that is how we play him. I would be looking at the Langdon footage and be asking Gaff to emulate him. When the ball comes out of defence, we go to the other wing and use him as a reset or change of direction link up.

How injured is Gaff? He looks it and for his credibility based on the last 2 months, I almost want him to be inhibited with some sort of injury. Let him take 3 months off and then unleash him as a new dog next year. Just make sure that he and Sheed are not on the same side of the oval as the oppo defenders will be in for a free run.

 

[Chump Change]

It’s been discussed on the GC board, started from someone with a club source at another club (Hawthorn), talking about what GC are shopping and offering.

lol, "club source".

Lot of people on Big Footy seem to get advised about the inner workings of trade strategies!

I'll take it as a "we're just moving around plastic army men".

I wouldn't entertain Fiorini. But if they gave us to him with a second rounder attached without much in return except paying his salary, I'd be open. I'm not convinced that is realistic though.

 

[Keys]

lol, "club source".

Lot of people on Big Footy seem to get advised about the inner workings of trade strategies!

I'll take it as a "we're just moving around plastic army men".

I wouldn't entertain Fiorini. But if they gave us to him with a second rounder attached without much in return except paying his salary, I'd be open. I'm not convinced that is realistic though.

The way I’m reading this Fiorini trade is we give up a future 2nd and get a 2nd round pick this year in return (a likely downgrade) along with Fiorini and his salary

That’s a no from me. We give up a pick in the 19-24 range in a stronger draft year for a pick in the 25-30 range in this year’s reportedly weaker draft. Just so we can get a fringe player from another bottom 8 club on an inflated salary

If it was a future 3rd (37-42) going back instead then perhaps but it sounds like that’s not what the Suns are chasing

 

[dinnaz]

And what sort of salary would you be offering? Redden has had his hair cut but do you think the club would be prepared to offer the same to the last 2 captains? If we get away with $350k, I'd be more open to it. Reality is we have a tight salary cap and this would be a decent rate to transition them from their height of football days to retirement. As Eddie McGuire said, $350k might seem minor when to many players but it is a lot of money for an ex footballer.

As I said, if it was just a list call it means something different to Simmo's Credit in the Bank MC. He has shown an inability to help himself and has diminished the integrity at the selection table. It might sound that I am going to further reduce integrity at list and selection table but that is to right the prior wrongs.

Also do yourself a favour and add a year to all the players ages. You are showing their 2022 age and they will all be 1 year older - this after all is the 2023 Best 22. Including Yeo who turn 30 in 2023, your starting 18 includes 8 players who will be 30 or over in 2023. That does not sound like a club rebuilding.

I would also want to be playing the younger players in their position of choice. No more rucking Allen because he is too good to leave out. Look what it has done to his body. so Shuey and Redden might need to play a different position to allow Culley, Chesser and XON play their best position. BTW I did like your selection of Sheed on the HFF. His best football has been as a HFF/outside mid.

I like the idea of the oldies still on the list. I like the idea of Shuey and Redden teaching the young mids and Hurn teaching the defender. Can they be on the list and and Simmo pick them for WAFL games. Not all the time but certainly split their time so it is not taking games away from what we need to develop.

NicNat continuing is a no brainer since our next level rucks are not up to it. He also looks like a lumbering slow player (even slower that Darcy). Simpson game a smart ar$e comment on NicNat about his weight by stating he can still run at 34 kph.

All this can be debated. Reality is that we will supposedly have a new game plan. Are you expecting us to get better teaching the older players the key roles to be playing in a new game plan or would we be better teaching the players who will still be there in 2024 to play the new game plan?

Whats the best selection possible for 2023?
Obviously as a single coach making all the decisions it's wn win win, yet others around will have their opinion on individual players through the week and the club may have an agenda to push for youth or a returning champion etc

 

[Chump Change]

The way I’m reading this Fiorini trade is we give up a future 2nd and get a 2nd round pick this year in return (a likely downgrade) along with Fiorini and his salary

That’s a no from me. We give up a pick in the 19-24 range in a stronger draft year for a pick in the 25-30 range in this year’s reportedly weaker draft. Just so we can get a fringe player from another bottom 8 club on an inflated salary

If it was a future 3rd (37-42) going back instead then perhaps but it sounds like that’s not what the Suns are chasing

That's also a no for me. Collecting average players in the midfield generally sends you backwards.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

If we traded in a mature ruckman, lets call him Lloyd Meek. Would we consider not giving NN a new contract for 2023?

 

[Sammy J]

Atleast X is starting to look like an AFL level midfielder. Combined with Culley and we have a start of something. Then add pick 2 to the mix.

If (big if) we can get Yeo/Shuey/Kelly healthy for 2023, plus having the youth coming through, the midfield may actually start to resemble something.