List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and trading thread

[Scorpus]

I saw this format on the West Coast board and thought it might help understand our current list position

 

[1990crow]

My thoughts on Schoenberg are that I would trade him. To my mind you can't play Laird, Berry, Soligo, Jones, McHenry, Crouch, Schoenberg, Rowe, Parnell, Pedlar, Sloane and Murphy in the same team as the structure becomes too small and too slow, with the Crows midfield getting destroyed by bigger bodied opposition most weeks. I would actually look to trade or delist Jones, McHenry, Crouch, Schoenberg, Rowe, Pedlar and Murphy as soon as possible to get some bigger bodied forward / midfielders like Bontempelli, Dunkley, Macrae, Pendlebury, Dangerfield, Fyfe, Cripps and Kennedy who are able to win the contested ball, break free to the outside and use their strength, run and carry to either kick goals themselves or deliver the ball to teammates in a position to kick goals. Additionally they have the size, speed, strength and endurance to run back the other way to intercept opposition forays into attack.

If I was the Crows I would be looking to recruit Dunkley, Poulter, Collier-Dawkins, Rosman and Blakely throughout the trade period this year. As I have mentioned previously I would recruit Phillipou, Hustwaite and Bevan through the draft. With Dawson, Keays, Hinge, Cook, Berry and Soligo, this would form the core of the Crows midfield rotation for the next 5-7 years. The Crows have Doedee, Butts, Murray and Worrell as KPD's, Fogarty, Thilthorpe, Himmelberg and for now Walker as KPF's, Laird, Parnell, Smith as general defenders and Rachele, McAdam, Milera, Newchurch and Gollant as the small to medium forwards. The potential team structure could look like this:

Back - Laird, Butts, Doedee
H/Back - Smith, Worrell, Blakely
Mid - Dawson, Dunkley, Hustwaite
H/Fwd - Phillipou, Thilthorpe, Poulter
Fwd - Rachele, Fogarty, Walker
Ruck - O'Brien, Keays, Berry
I/Change - McAdam, Collier-Dawkins, Bevan, Hinge

Emerg - Parnell, Soligo, Himmelberg, Murray

The players I would be trading, delisting or retiring over the next 2 years would include Jones, McHenry, Crouch, Schoenberg, Pedlar, Murphy, Frampton, McAsey, Seedsman, Sloane, Walker, Sholl, Davis, Turner, McPherson, Hamill and Brown. I would also be looking to recruit and develop 2 x KPD's, 2 x KPF's and 1 x ruck over the next 2 years.

WTF am I reading.

 

[Torpedro]

My thoughts on Schoenberg are that I would trade him. To my mind you can't play Laird, Berry, Soligo, Jones, McHenry, Crouch, Schoenberg, Rowe, Parnell, Pedlar, Sloane and Murphy in the same team as the structure becomes too small and too slow, with the Crows midfield getting destroyed by bigger bodied opposition most weeks. I would actually look to trade or delist Jones, McHenry, Crouch, Schoenberg, Rowe, Pedlar and Murphy as soon as possible to get some bigger bodied forward / midfielders like Bontempelli, Dunkley, Macrae, Pendlebury, Dangerfield, Fyfe, Cripps and Kennedy who are able to win the contested ball, break free to the outside and use their strength, run and carry to either kick goals themselves or deliver the ball to teammates in a position to kick goals. Additionally they have the size, speed, strength and endurance to run back the other way to intercept opposition forays into attack.

If I was the Crows I would be looking to recruit Dunkley, Poulter, Collier-Dawkins, Rosman and Blakely throughout the trade period this year. As I have mentioned previously I would recruit Phillipou, Hustwaite and Bevan through the draft. With Dawson, Keays, Hinge, Cook, Berry and Soligo, this would form the core of the Crows midfield rotation for the next 5-7 years. The Crows have Doedee, Butts, Murray and Worrell as KPD's, Fogarty, Thilthorpe, Himmelberg and for now Walker as KPF's, Laird, Parnell, Smith as general defenders and Rachele, McAdam, Milera, Newchurch and Gollant as the small to medium forwards. The potential team structure could look like this:

Back - Laird, Butts, Doedee
H/Back - Smith, Worrell, Blakely
Mid - Dawson, Dunkley, Hustwaite
H/Fwd - Phillipou, Thilthorpe, Poulter
Fwd - Rachele, Fogarty, Walker
Ruck - O'Brien, Keays, Berry
I/Change - McAdam, Collier-Dawkins, Bevan, Hinge

Emerg - Parnell, Soligo, Himmelberg, Murray

The players I would be trading, delisting or retiring over the next 2 years would include Jones, McHenry, Crouch, Schoenberg, Pedlar, Murphy, Frampton, McAsey, Seedsman, Sloane, Walker, Sholl, Davis, Turner, McPherson, Hamill and Brown. I would also be looking to recruit and develop 2 x KPD's, 2 x KPF's and 1 x ruck over the next 2 years.

You’re way too concerned with height. Here’s how many sub 6 foot players were fielded in the grand final’s during Richmond’s dynasty:
2017: 9 players
2019: 10 players
2020: 10 players

The claim our midfield is being “destroyed” most weeks is an exaggeration. Have you considered the fact any of this might be due to the age and experience of our team?

You said we can’t play “Laird, Berry, Soligo, Jones, McHenry, Crouch, Schoenberg, Rowe, Parnell, Pedlar, Sloane and Murphy in the same team” yet ignored the fact that Crouch, Rowe, and Sloane are very likely all gone within a year and one of Murphy or McHenry struggles to get a game in a team with Rachele and Rankine.

 

[BACCS]

You’re way too concerned with height. Here’s how many sub 6 foot players were fielded in the grand final’s during Richmond’s dynasty:
2017: 9 players
2019: 10 players
2020: 10 players

The claim our midfield is being “destroyed” most weeks is an exaggeration. Have you considered the fact any of this might be due to the age and experience of our team?

You said we can’t play “Laird, Berry, Soligo, Jones, McHenry, Crouch, Schoenberg, Rowe, Parnell, Pedlar, Sloane and Murphy in the same team” yet ignored the fact that Crouch, Rowe, and Sloane are very likely all gone within a year and one of Murphy or McHenry struggles to get a game in a team with Rachele and Rankine.

It's also incorrect. Adelaide is 3rd for contested possessions, number one for tackles (#7 for inside 50 tackles) and number 3 for clearances. Our struggles this year aren't down to our ability to win the midfield battle, but our inability to turn this win into a win on the scoreboard. That is obviously partly on the midfield too, but they certainly aren't getting 'destroyed' most weeks.

 

[Dewy006]

My thoughts on Schoenberg are that I would trade him. To my mind you can't play Laird, Berry, Soligo, Jones, McHenry, Crouch, Schoenberg, Rowe, Parnell, Pedlar, Sloane and Murphy in the same team as the structure becomes too small and too slow, with the Crows midfield getting destroyed by bigger bodied opposition most weeks. I would actually look to trade or delist Jones, McHenry, Crouch, Schoenberg, Rowe, Pedlar and Murphy as soon as possible to get some bigger bodied forward / midfielders like Bontempelli, Dunkley, Macrae, Pendlebury, Dangerfield, Fyfe, Cripps and Kennedy who are able to win the contested ball, break free to the outside and use their strength, run and carry to either kick goals themselves or deliver the ball to teammates in a position to kick goals. Additionally they have the size, speed, strength and endurance to run back the other way to intercept opposition forays into attack.

If I was the Crows I would be looking to recruit Dunkley, Poulter, Collier-Dawkins, Rosman and Blakely throughout the trade period this year. As I have mentioned previously I would recruit Phillipou, Hustwaite and Bevan through the draft. With Dawson, Keays, Hinge, Cook, Berry and Soligo, this would form the core of the Crows midfield rotation for the next 5-7 years. The Crows have Doedee, Butts, Murray and Worrell as KPD's, Fogarty, Thilthorpe, Himmelberg and for now Walker as KPF's, Laird, Parnell, Smith as general defenders and Rachele, McAdam, Milera, Newchurch and Gollant as the small to medium forwards. The potential team structure could look like this:

Back - Laird, Butts, Doedee
H/Back - Smith, Worrell, Blakely
Mid - Dawson, Dunkley, Hustwaite
H/Fwd - Phillipou, Thilthorpe, Poulter
Fwd - Rachele, Fogarty, Walker
Ruck - O'Brien, Keays, Berry
I/Change - McAdam, Collier-Dawkins, Bevan, Hinge

Emerg - Parnell, Soligo, Himmelberg, Murray

The players I would be trading, delisting or retiring over the next 2 years would include Jones, McHenry, Crouch, Schoenberg, Pedlar, Murphy, Frampton, McAsey, Seedsman, Sloane, Walker, Sholl, Davis, Turner, McPherson, Hamill and Brown. I would also be looking to recruit and develop 2 x KPD's, 2 x KPF's and 1 x ruck over the next 2 years.

 

[Peter Wallis]

Butts & Strachan have already maxxed out their time on the rookie list, and need to be upgraded. Murray has another year before he hits the time limit, so he's a lower priority for upgrading.

Will Strachan be retained or will he get delisted? He's hardly played AFL this year.

 

[Vader]

Will Strachan be retained or will he get delisted? He's hardly played AFL this year.

Retained. Our other backup rucks are TT and Berg, with Walker rucking in the forward line. We need Strachan as backup. No chance he gets delisted, particularly given that he's contracted for 2023.

 

[Soggy2112]

You’re way too concerned with height. Here’s how many sub 6 foot players were fielded in the grand final’s during Richmond’s dynasty:
2017: 9 players
2019: 10 players
2020: 10 players

The claim our midfield is being “destroyed” most weeks is an exaggeration. Have you considered the fact any of this might be due to the age and experience of our team?

You said we can’t play “Laird, Berry, Soligo, Jones, McHenry, Crouch, Schoenberg, Rowe, Parnell, Pedlar, Sloane and Murphy in the same team” yet ignored the fact that Crouch, Rowe, and Sloane are very likely all gone within a year and one of Murphy or McHenry struggles to get a game in a team with Rachele and Rankine.

Our midfield definitely isn’t getting destroyed. We win contested ball and clearances most weeks. We lack class, but even that is improving, Schoenberg and Soligo are big parts of that.

 

['51 Bewick]

Hi folks,
Billy Frampton

17

Billy Frampton

Age

27

Ht

201cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.1

2star

K

5.1

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

3.1

3star

T

0.7

3star

MG

99.0

2star

D

8.5

2star

K

4.8

2star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.5

3star

T

0.5

1star

MG

99.0

2star

D

9.2

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

1.0

3star

MG

107.0

2star

was performing really well early in the season. Just wondering why he has been demoted to the SANFL.
Cheers.

 

[Scorpus]

Hi folks,
Billy Frampton was performing really well early in the season. Just wondering why he has been demoted to the SANFL.
Cheers.

He is absolutely atrocious at defending. Fine to play the unaccountable third tall on short opponents but his actual defending is abysmal and he frequently gives up when trying to defend leading players

 

['51 Bewick]

He is absolutely atrocious at defending. Fine to play the unaccountable third tall on short opponents but his actual defending is abysmal and he frequently gives up when trying to defend leading players

I know SC can be a poor measure but where was he playing when he got very good scores early in the season?

 

[Scorpus]

I know SC can be a poor measure but where was he playing when he got very good scores early in the season?

Defense.

He's fine if you want him to play as a loose tall racking up cheapies behind the ball (I think he averaged 18 disposals doing that for us) but we were actually trying to play him as a second key position defender and he conceded big bags against guys like Todd Marshall

 

[Soggy2112]

Hi folks,
Billy Frampton was performing really well early in the season. Just wondering why he has been demoted to the SANFL.
Cheers.

Is very poor one on one, got completely exposed in multiple games.

If he’s allowed to play loose he can take marks and use the ball well, but ultimately he’s defensive ability is not up to AFL standard based off of what we saw.

 

['51 Bewick]

Cheers folks, sounds like he's good for SC but not the Crows. Just as an aside, Marshall is a pretty good young KPF who I'd love to have at my club.

 

[croweater 41]

Apologies if discussed already, is it worth a chance on Mellican from the Swans? At worst offers a bit of depth in the KPD position. Would he move to be depth though?

 

[George Kramer]

Cheers folks, sounds like he's good for SC but not the Crows. Just as an aside, Marshall is a pretty good young KPF who I'd love to have at my club.

That’s good, you should get him, Port are open to trading him

 

[BigFella!]

View attachment 1481403

According to the statistics available on the Crows website for each player the following information can be deduced and informs my previous comments.

Chayce Jones is rated as below average for his position over his career and also for this year.
Lachlan Murphy is rated as average over his career for his position. Murphy has increased disposals by 1.8 disposals per game which is something.
Luke Pedlar is rated as below average for his position.
Jake Soligo is rated as below average for his position although it is understood it normally takes a couple of years in the AFL system for a player to find their feet.
Luke Brown is considered below average for his position this year and average for his position over the course of his career.
Sam Berry is rated as average this season and has made significant improvements on last season.
Ned McHenry is rated as below average - average over his career and has made some minor improvements this year.
Harry Schoenberg is rated as below average - average over his career and has kept the same rating this year.
Matt Crouch is rated as average to above average this season and has dropped off compared to the peak of his career.
James Rowe is rated as average over the course of his career and this season.
Patrick Parnell is rated as below average for his position but it is understood he needs a couple of years in the AFL system.
Ben Davis is rated as below average for his position.
Josh Rachele is rated as average for his position in his first year in the AFL system.
Shane McAdam is rated as average to above average for his position and has made improvements this year.
Rory Laird is rated as above average to elite for his position.
Jordan Dawson is rated above average to elite for his position.
Jackson Hately is rated average for his position and has made improvements this year.
Ben Keays is rated average to above average for his position.

For smaller players, if they have not broken out and producing consistent high quality performances by the end of 3 years serious questions need to be asked about whether that player should be on an AFL list unless there are mitigating circumstances which have impacted player development. After 3+ years serious questions need to be asked about Jones, McHenry, Schoenberg, Davis and Murphy. Pedlar also seems to have issues getting his body right and maybe needs a couple of years in the SANFL before being looked at once again for an AFL list. Rowe is rated as average and could be used as a depth player, but is unlikely to elevate his game consistently to an elite standard but does have trade value. Brown, Seedsman, Walker and Sloane are pushing towards the end of their careers and whether they retire this year or next year needs to be discussed. Matt Crouch is out of favour and should just be traded which I think is a fair consensus across the forum.

I know intuitively a lot of people may disagree with what I am saying, but there is logic and reasoning behind it. Like everyone here, I want the Crows to be winning premierships and competing consistently at the top of the ladder. If down the track Schoenberg becomes a Brownlow Medallist I will happily admit that I was wrong. As I have said previously, everyone is entitled to their opinion and respectful debate.

 

[baldandbroke]

What would you give up for this guy ...



Jeez he looks the goods.

For me, the untouchables are:

• Fogarty
• Thilthorpe
• Berry
• Soligo
• Worrell

I would swap Rachele + 2023 first for JHF and ask for their 2022 second coming back. Maybe if Clarkson gets the North gig Rachele would be open to it. Sounds like blasphemy, and I love the talent on Rachele ... but we are spending our 2022 first to get Rankine. We still need a super-mid.

Moving on Crouch, Rowe and Frampton is going to deliver a grand total of bugger all.

I'd love to believe a player like Brennan Cox

36

Brennan Cox

Age

26

Ht

195cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.1

3star

K

5.8

2star

HB

5.3

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.1

4star

MG

182.8

3star

D

12.3

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

4.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.0

2star

MG

182.8

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.8

4star

is wanting to come to AFC, but it seems unlikely given his contract status. If he does, we are going to be all out of bait!! Hopefully we have an eventful trade period for a change because we aren't going to have much going on in the draft once our picks are all used up

Resource - 2022 Provisional AFL Draft Order - live based on current ladder!

 

[Golumless]

What would you give up for this guy ...



Jeez he looks the goods.

For me, the untouchables are:

• Fogarty
• Thilthorpe
• Berry
• Soligo
• Worrell

I would swap Rachele + 2023 first for JHF and ask for their 2022 second coming back. Maybe if Clarkson gets the North gig Rachele would be open to it. Sounds like blasphemy, and I love the talent on Rachele ... but we are spending our 2022 first to get Rankine. We still need a super-mid.

Moving on Crouch, Rowe and Frampton is going to deliver a grand total of bugger all.

I'd love to believe a player like Brennan Cox is wanting to come to AFC, but it seems unlikely given his contract status. If he does, we are going to be all out of bait!! Hopefully we have an eventful trade period for a change because we aren't going to have much going on in the draft once our picks are all used up

Resource - 2022 Provisional AFL Draft Order - live based on current ladder!

I'd trade Worrell and Berry before I'd trade Rachele.

Premierships are won by having a lot of elite talents (not just midfield, anywhere), you do not hand that off willingly. Especially as Rachele is likely to transition towards the midfield in time.

 

[Mutineer]

What would you give up for this guy ...



Jeez he looks the goods.

For me, the untouchables are:

• Fogarty
• Thilthorpe
• Berry
• Soligo
• Worrell

I would swap Rachele + 2023 first for JHF and ask for their 2022 second coming back. Maybe if Clarkson gets the North gig Rachele would be open to it. Sounds like blasphemy, and I love the talent on Rachele ... but we are spending our 2022 first to get Rankine. We still need a super-mid.

Moving on Crouch, Rowe and Frampton is going to deliver a grand total of bugger all.

I'd love to believe a player like Brennan Cox is wanting to come to AFC, but it seems unlikely given his contract status. If he does, we are going to be all out of bait!! Hopefully we have an eventful trade period for a change because we aren't going to have much going on in the draft once our picks are all used up

Resource - 2022 Provisional AFL Draft Order - live based on current ladder!

If Rachele is involved I'm passing without even giving it any thought....untouchable.

 

[Scorpus]

What would you give up for this guy ...



Jeez he looks the goods.

For me, the untouchables are:

• Fogarty
• Thilthorpe
• Berry
• Soligo
• Worrell

I would swap Rachele + 2023 first for JHF and ask for their 2022 second coming back. Maybe if Clarkson gets the North gig Rachele would be open to it. Sounds like blasphemy, and I love the talent on Rachele ... but we are spending our 2022 first to get Rankine. We still need a super-mid.

Moving on Crouch, Rowe and Frampton is going to deliver a grand total of bugger all.

I'd love to believe a player like Brennan Cox is wanting to come to AFC, but it seems unlikely given his contract status. If he does, we are going to be all out of bait!! Hopefully we have an eventful trade period for a change because we aren't going to have much going on in the draft once our picks are all used up

Resource - 2022 Provisional AFL Draft Order - live based on current ladder!

I'd give up a first round pick when he's uncontracted at the end of next year.

North would be idiots to even entertain a trade after one season

 

[Chase13]

I'd trade Worrell and Berry before I'd trade Rachele.

Premierships are won by having a lot of elite talents (not just midfield, anywhere), you do not hand that off willingly. Especially as Rachele is likely to transition towards the midfield in time.

Providing we get rankine with our first 5

jhf future first second rounder macasy and doddee

 

[1990crow]

If Rachele is involved I'm passing without even giving it any thought....untouchable.

We need to add to the elite talent we have if there's any chance of becoming a top 4 side.
Getting rid of one to get another is just moving sideways.

 

[Brett Cummings]

Providing we get rankine with our first 5

jhf future first second rounder macasy and doddee

You'd give up our first pick for a player that needs a shoulder operation?

 

[safeandsound]

Defense.

He's fine if you want him to play as a loose tall racking up cheapies behind the ball (I think he averaged 18 disposals doing that for us) but we were actually trying to play him as a second key position defender and he conceded big bags against guys like Todd Marshall

He does kind of suit the way Collingwood defend and might be pretty handy in a role for them .
Probably fits their style more than with any other team .

 

[Drewie11]

You’ve got rocks in your head if you’d trade Rachele for Francis.

Dynamic forwards are extremely hard to come by. Rachele has shown as much as Francis this year to have gone number 1 in the draft.

If we don’t get Francis, we go after another midfielder but we know we have a gun in our team committed to 3 more years in Rachele