Oppo Camp Brodie Grundy (Traded to Melbourne 2022)

[Gilbert_Grape]

All this stuff about players or their managers accepting unders puts too much of the responsibility on them.

it is up to the list manager/football manager to set the framework of payments. There was a strategy (if you can call it that) by people at the club and probably eddie, to focus on the premiership and pick up the pieces afterwards. They didnt worry about the salary cap of 2021 in the preceeding years....they fobbed off payments to treloar to future years. They effectively paid the bill on credit and got into trouble when the crap hit the fan.

Also players accept "unders" if they think they can win a premiership. It's a selfish position. It's not some magnanimous donation to the club. They say that they want $800K and the club says it cant afford it and keep the playing group together, and they offer $650K back so the player accepts this to stay on the list......if they dont accept less, the understanding is that they will be traded. The club has to be clear on that and support that strategy. If the club is gutless and wimpy, the players and their managers wont believe them.

Agree, I didn't mean players literally negotiate with themselves, but that's really the effect. The club need to manage it as you say. But in the middle of a premiership window it might be harder to say no to an AA ruck without a replacement. I assume it wasn't the club that pushed for 7 yrs, and the Beams deal reeked of desperation.

The writing must have been on the wall if players were re-arranging payments (eg Treloar - wasn't that much of a sacrifice if they just pushed payments back). But Grundy seemingly negotiated pretty hard at the time, which just closes the premiership window quicker once players are crowded out (eg Aish as well).

So while it's up to the club, players can choose not to push too hard for "overs" and lower the chance they (or teammates) get squeezed out. You can go 2 ways when you start earning that much (in any industry) - some people adjust their lifestyle and paradoxically find it harder to walk away from that type of income (due to the high opportunity cost); others find that earning high income makes it easier to save "enough" so they can walk away from that income earlier (or prioritise other things than just the $).

(I agree that it needs to be collective/widespread too, as any 1 player taking unders won't really affect any premiership chance.)

I'd also say like any workplace an enjoyable environment (worth accepting "unders") is not just about premierships. Pies under McRae seems much more appealing than, say, 2018 Crows where they thought leadership was abusing each other. Most people consider these tradeoffs all the time.

It seems moot though - unfortunately he seems gone, which is a shame.

 

[No SPIN]

X = What current footy department think Grundy is worth.

C = Grundy contract amount

P = How much of future contract we pay

If X < C - P, we benefit by trading him - or at least believe we do, as X is subjective.

I would add D - cost of a back up Ruckman

So new equation is:

(X+D)<(C-P)

 

[No SPIN]

I believe Grundy has been told that the deal he was signed on for 1 mill a year was by the previous regime. If he wants to stay a Pie his current deal has to be re looked at and renegotiated so the club can move forward to bring in more talent to secure long term success.
If he is not interested in doing that for the benefit of the club and long term success HE WILL BE TRADED. Its not personnal its business.
Pies are willing to pay pay 300k out of 1mill a year if he wants to play somewhere else.......If that is the case he wants the money he is not interested in long term success.
Ok so he goes we have 700k per year for next 5 years to bring in other top line player or players and we move forward. Otherwise he takes a cut and we can move forward for sustained success. Don't worry the club know what they are doing

On what basis do you believe this ?
Do you have a source or just what we’ve read here?

 

[manicpie]

Could really use the Grundog against those feral cats

 

[sr36]

I would add D - cost of a back up Ruckman

So new equation is:

(X+D)<(C-P)

I think it only becomes worthwhile if we're backing in Cameron and the replacement's wage is a draftees wage. And frankly, I've got no idea if that would be a good call, as it's so hard to determine Grundy's impact.

 

[Markfs]

Agree, I didn't mean players literally negotiate with themselves, but that's really the effect. The club need to manage it as you say. But in the middle of a premiership window it might be harder to say no to an AA ruck without a replacement. I assume it wasn't the club that pushed for 7 yrs, and the Beams deal reeked of desperation.

The writing must have been on the wall if players were re-arranging payments (eg Treloar - wasn't that much of a sacrifice if they just pushed payments back). But Grundy seemingly negotiated pretty hard at the time, which just closes the premiership window quicker once players are crowded out (eg Aish as well).

So while it's up to the club, players can choose not to push too hard for "overs" and lower the chance they (or teammates) get squeezed out. You can go 2 ways when you start earning that much (in any industry) - some people adjust their lifestyle and paradoxically find it harder to walk away from that type of income (due to the high opportunity cost); others find that earning high income makes it easier to save "enough" so they can walk away from that income earlier (or prioritise other things than just the $).

(I agree that it needs to be collective/widespread too, as any 1 player taking unders won't really affect any premiership chance.)

I'd also say like any workplace an enjoyable environment (worth accepting "unders") is not just about premierships. Pies under McRae seems much more appealing than, say, 2018 Crows where they thought leadership was abusing each other. Most people consider these tradeoffs all the time.

It seems moot though - unfortunately he seems gone, which is a shame.

Your philosophical stuff is fine but in the end, there has to be a solid trust by the player that the club will even the discount fairly among the player group....and that the club will deliver a good workplace to work in. Geelong has worked hard on those aspects. Hawthorn apparently did the same. Treloar trusted Geoff Walsh to deliver a delayed salary and look what he got in return. No one says a word about Walsh on this forum, but he was in charge of the whole show. Far sexier to blame Ned Guy or Buckley.

Wright will have to build trust in the players to deliver a premiership.....and then he might be able to discount player salaries.

 

[Markfs]

On what basis do you believe this ?
Do you have a source or just what we’ve read here?

Some people don't know how the system works. But they still like to have opinions.

 

[gouki88]

This thread has taken a nerdy, algebraic turn.

 

[NMBB]

This thread has taken a nerdy, algebraic turn.

Thread + nerdishness = yet another BF panorama

 

[Finnishpie]

This thread has taken a nerdy, algebraic turn.

Thank god. I couldn't bear just emotional opinions any longer.

On another note:

"All-Australians don't grow on trees."

That idiot Pendlebury.

‘All-Australian ruckmen don’t grow on trees’: Pendlebury wants Grundy to stay in black and white

Collingwood skipper Scott Pendlebury says he hopes decorated ruckman Brodie Grundy stays with the Magpies next year, along with star midfielder and free agent Jordan De Goey.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Finnishpie]

 

[gouki88]

View attachment 1494358

The scores from centre clearances difference is insane. We go from one of the best to the second worst!

 

[Doc1763]

The scores from centre clearances difference is insane. We go from one of the best to the second worst!

Apparently, that stat is severely overrated, so we're giving him the flick.

 

[Finnishpie]

The scores from centre clearances difference is insane. We go from one of the best to the second worst!

Also hitouts to advantage.

But given we know we're being smashed at contested ball and clearances, the (legitimate) question is whether the slightly greater aerial and forward impact of the Cox/Cameron duo is worth the sacrifice.

Given Grundy would play with one of the other two anyway, I'd say no. And I'd say that's been evident against Melbourne, Essendon and other teams this year.

 

[ZEV]

The scores from centre clearances difference is insane. We go from one of the best to the second worst!

I wonder what the actual numbers are opposed to the ranking.

 

[sr36]

I wonder what the actual numbers are opposed to the ranking.

Yep. I'm of the opinion that Grundy makes us a lot better around stoppage, but Cameron makes us better in terms of transition, particularly defending it and then attacking from that. Without breaking the respective advantages down, you haven't got the big picture.

 

[No SPIN]

Yep. I'm of the opinion that Grundy makes us a lot better around stoppage, but Cameron makes us better in terms of transition, particularly defending it and then attacking from that. Without breaking the respective advantages down, you haven't got the big picture.

I think it could be a premature assessment- it may well be that Grundy, more than matches Cameron in those areas, with enough games/development under McCrae.

 

[sr36]

I think it could be a premature assessment- it may well be that Grundy, more than matches Cameron in those areas, with enough games/development under McCrae.

Grundy was our primary long down the line target for years, so we've seen him in a heap of aerial contests. I reckon we've seen enough to know that Grundy doesn't read the ball drop very well.

 

[No SPIN]

Grundy was our primary long down the line target for years, so we've seen him in a heap of aerial contests. I reckon we've seen enough to know that Grundy doesn't read the ball drop very well.

Agree with “down the line” transition.

 

[manicpie]

I wish he was playing on Saturday, he would be more than handy. Regardless of what happens at the end of the year, he would have made us better through the finals

 

[stormskye]

I think it could be a premature assessment- it may well be that Grundy, more than matches Cameron in those areas, with enough games/development under McCrae.

Grundy is horrible in the air. Always was, and will be. It’s just not a strength of his. And why he’s not in gawns league

 

[No SPIN]

Grundy is horrible in the air. Always was, and will be. It’s just not a strength of his. And why he’s not in gawns league

Sure it’s the constant criticism- but I have no doubt that a diligent focus can improve his marking.
It’s not rocket science.

 

[gouki88]

Grundy is horrible in the air. Always was, and will be. It’s just not a strength of his. And why he’s not in gawns league

It's weird, his contested marking has fallen away whereas Gawn's has improved.

Although, this season Gawn is essentially a part-time ruck. His AA spot was a complete joke.

 

[manicpie]

It's weird, his contested marking has fallen away whereas Gawn's has improved.

Although, this season Gawn is essentially a part-time ruck. His AA spot was a complete joke.

Melbourne have tried to use Gawn as a key forward this year, he hasn't turned out to be the contested marking beast they thought he might be, Gawn has had a lot of balls bounce off his hands year

 

[domus]

I keep seeing the stats differential on clearances before and after Brody's injury and I have to say they don't match up with what I see each week. I seem to recall seeing us slaughtered out of the middle for a number of seasons when Grundy was taking almost all of the centre bounces. You usually sense the change just based on the eye test but I don't feel as if we have plummeted so far since he went out of the side and still believe we are getting more from Cameron and Cox around the ground. Maybe I'm watching through rose coloured glasses (though I don't wear them.)

Perhaps it's out of sight out of mind and I'm forgetting how good Brody was but I think he has just been going these past three years.