Play Nice Hawthorn culture and Fagan

[dlanod]

This is going to be a very touchy subject.

There will be a very broad range of opinions about the correct way to handle this.

I'll remind everyone to post respectfully at this time - sniping at each other is not going to help.

Any continued pointless back and forth will get a day or more to cool off. If you want to avoid this fate, let it go.

 

[Mighty Lions]

I hate to agree with you, but yeah I can't see any way Fagan and Clarkson walk away 'winners'. The only people at this stage who will are the lawyers and potentially the accusers if their story ends up checking out and evidence against Clarko is provided.

If their stories end up with any truth in it then Clarkson & Fagan will deal with the consequences & be banished from any AFL association into the future.

That said, if Fagan is totally innocent, he has no other option other than to clear his name & reputation by legal representation. There is no way he (or anyone else for that matter) would allow people to slander his name & reputation to the extent this has without a fight to at least allow some form of truth come out....I dont know of anyone who would let these accusations get out there without doing something to refute it if they were innocent.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Once again the coach/“whistleblower” is afforded anonymity and the accused aren’t. This stinks

It 100% sure does. This world is getting crazier & crazier every day.

 

[haystark]

Would you rather say "a senior coach at the Hawks - let's call him Lester Markson"?

You can't release a report like this and keep the head coaches name out of it if it is clearly about the head coach.

Based off reading the report though, it feels like Fagan has been tangled in this a lot more than he should have thanks to the ABC article which I don't think was fair. Unless I've missed something in the report, that is.

My issue is that this coach has shared their version of events and the HUN has decided not to name them. How is that fair reporting?

 

[dlanod]

Mate, I'll say what I feel is right not what you want me to say.
Pick me up on any point you want if you feel that way obliged.

You're saying it as if it's a fact.

You're providing no indication as to why it's a fact as opposed to just your opinion.

The stated account explicitly says it's not a fact. There's a million loopholes and grey areas that he could wade through as obviously the article was inspired by the report, i.e. he didn't leak the report but he may have been told parts of it and followed up with the families (the most likely case), all without actually leaking the report.

When you continue to claim something as true that is counter to what has been reported but provide zero information supporting that, people will continue to point that out until you provide something more substantial that "yes it is".

 

[Mighty Lions]

You're saying it as if it's a fact.

You're providing no indication as to why it's a fact as opposed to just your opinion.

The stated account explicitly says it's not a fact. There's a million loopholes and grey areas that he could wade through as obviously the article was inspired by the report, i.e. he didn't leak the report but he may have been told parts of it and followed up with the families (the most likely case), all without actually leaking the report.

When you continue to claim something as true that is counter to what has been reported but provide zero information supporting that, people will continue to point that out until you provide something more substantial that "yes it is".

It's my opinion but its an educated one based off some people I have talked to but I wont name names.

People can continue to point that out all they like. As I have already said, It doesn't bother me.

 

[western royboy]

Would you rather say "a senior coach at the Hawks - let's call him Lester Markson"?

You can't release a report like this and keep the head coaches name out of it if it is clearly about the head coach.

Based off reading the report though, it feels like Fagan has been tangled in this a lot more than he should of thanks to the ABC article which I don't think was fair. Unless I've missed something in the report, that is.

Fagan from what I have read is present on several occasions when some of these accusations have alleged to have occurred. That puts him in the shit regardless.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Fagan from what I have read is present on several occasions when some of these accusations have alleged to have occurred. That puts him in the s**t regardless.

So guilty on heresay rather than based on fact or truth?

What a crock of S**t.

I strongly believe he needs a fair and accountable opportunity to clear his name.... the best opportunity that is will be his to chose.

 

[M Malice]

Lawyers suck.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Lawyers suck.

So does anonymity when it wrecks people's lives with no accountability of accuracy.

I'm not a strong believer in religion but God Help Us when we let a journo spill a story such as this one with no accountability which damages lives & reputations like it has to Fagan & Clarkson.

 

[Nunez]

So does anonymity when it wrecks people's lives with no accountability of accuracy.

I'm not a strong believe in religion but God Help Us when we let a journo spill a story such as this one with no accountability which damages lives & reputations like it has to Fagan & Clarkson.

Unless it's true and they have evidence. If they don't, this really does have defamation written all over it.

 

[RoyBoy17]

‘The Russian Mafia’ …

Saying that might be culturally offensive to any players who may have a Russian background.

 

[nup]

Birds aren't real

 

[Gadzorks]

So guilty on heresay rather than based on fact or truth?

What a crock of S**t.

I strongly believe he needs a fair and accountable opportunity to clear his name.... the best opportunity that is will be his to chose.

Just seeing if I've got this right - Fagan's denials are fact but the accounts if the other parties aren't?

 

[BRAB]

It's my opinion but its an educated one based off some people I have talked to but I wont name names

So guilty on heresay rather than based on fact or truth?

How can you make both of these posts within 6 minutes of each other?

 

[Viceregal]

Independent of whatever level of subjective or objective truth exists in the stories told ...

- I feel for the ones who gave feedback to the internal review under the colour of anonymity who may get caught up in the whirlwind of controversy and legality. This is my story please let it be better for my brothers in the future.

- I do not feel for the ones who told their stories to a reporter even under colour of anonymity who will most certainly get caught up in said whirlwind as anything you say to a reporter is going to be sensationalised, sound-bited, and used to generate clicks, fame and reimbursement for the reporter.

- I totally feel for Clarkson and Fagan (no matter how guilty or innocent or misunderstood) for being on the rough end of the process.

- I worry for the ongoing plight of our aboriginal players as I suspect that the good that might have come out of the review will be counteracted by the fallout from the 'story' and from the now politicised investigation to come. Hopefully the greater awareness will lead to better interaction rather than segregation.

 

[Squizz89]

I believe only “witness 2’s” statement was uploaded last night. Found this this morning also.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Unless it's true and they have evidence. If they don't, this really does have defamation written all over it.

BRING ON THE EVIDENCE.

In the meantime look at the damage its doing to Fagan & Clarkson. It's not right...all everyone wants is evidence to either back up what the accusers are saying or evidence that shows it's false.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Just seeing if I've got this right - Fagan's denials are fact but the accounts if the other parties aren't?

They are both up for clarification and until then our coach is out of a job and his reputation shot because his name is out there while others arent.
I have also consistently said if Fagan is found guilty of ANY of this, he's done...and so he probably should be.

 

[Mighty Lions]

How can you make both of these posts within 6 minutes of each other?

I don't get the point you make? Please elaborate.

 

[M Malice]

Independent of whatever level of subjective or objective truth exists in the stories told ...

- I feel for the ones who gave feedback to the internal review under the colour of anonymity who may get caught up in the whirlwind of controversy and legality. This is my story please let it be better for my brothers in the future.

- I do not feel for the ones who told their stories to a reporter even under colour of anonymity who will most certainly get caught up in said whirlwind as anything you say to a reporter is going to be sensationalised, sound-bited, and used to generate clicks, fame and reimbursement for the reporter.

- I totally feel for Clarkson and Fagan (no matter how guilty or innocent or misunderstood) for being on the rough end of the process.

- I worry for the ongoing plight of our aboriginal players as I suspect that the good that might have come out of the review will be counteracted by the fallout 'story' and from the now politicised investigation to come. Hopefully the greater awareness will lead to better interaction rather than segregation.

Fantastic post V, couldn't agree more with all of it.

 

[western royboy]

So guilty on heresay rather than based on fact or truth?

What a crock of S**t.

I strongly believe he needs a fair and accountable opportunity to clear his name.... the best opportunity that is will be his to chose.

You appear to be really struggling with the concepts here…these are direct allegations, look up the definition of allegations and hearsay…pretty big difference…

 

[Mighty Lions]

You appear to be really struggling with the concepts here…these are direct allegations, look up the definition of allegations and hearsay…pretty big difference…

Based on what you are saying, I could come out (& remain nameless) and make a direct allegation about anyone which has a negative impact on their careers and lives?

 

[western royboy]

Based on what you are saying, I could come out (& remain nameless) and make a direct allegation about anyone which has a negative impact on their careers and lives?

No…that’s not what I’m saying at all, I’ve tried really hard to explain it to you but are either unwilling or unable to grasp the concepts here, believe whatever you want

 

[lioninthesand]

My issue is that this coach has shared their version of events and the HUN has decided not to name them. How is that fair reporting?

Because those sharing are proposed to be victims and or supporters - victims are often protected through these processes, or else very few would ever speak up againts those in more powerful positions.

Fagan and Clarkson on the other hand are the accused, who were in positions of power and held responsibility for the alleged victims.

It may be unfair but it is just a reality of public life in these scenarios, the accused are afforded less liberties.

This will unfurl more as the investigation takes place.

 

[mebevan]

- I do not feel for the ones who told their stories to a reporter even under colour of anonymity who will most certainly get caught up in said whirlwind as anything you say to a reporter is going to be sensationalised, sound-bited, and used to generate clicks, fame and reimbursement for the reporter.