List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and Trading Thread - Part 2

[Scorpus]

Updated list position



And 2024 as it stands

Spoiler

 

[Thetrader15]

If Seedsman was to retire due to concussion, what sort of compo, if any, would he receive from the AFL as part of any AFLPA CBA?

 

[Vader]

Vader, at the end of the day time will tell. If Crouch can stay fit and healthy and return to near All Australian form then he will extend his career. It would be prudent of the Crows to give Crouch a role that maximises his value so that he is an attractive proposition for other clubs come the free agency period at the end of the year; not to mention providing direct benefit to the Crows themselves. The chances of this happening are probably Buckley's; but Crouch has 11 months to extend his career and the Crows have 11 months to maximise his value.

At the end of the day, he's fighting to regain a position in our AFL team - hoping for a return to "near All Australian form" is like hoping that Malcolm Blight will coach the Crows to a 3rd premiership in 2023.

What's prudent is playing Crouch in the SANFL all year, so he can teach our younger midfielders while maximising the midfield time for the likes of Soligo & Berry in the AFL team.

 

[Cap]

Happy .....compared to pre-draft expectation, we grabbed a couple of extra hopefuls ......it was not something we really needed to do UNLESS we really thought there were a couple of bargains

No ruck seems a bone of contention again that seems to be the main concern

 

[Danger in Texas]

Happy .....compared to pre-draft expectation, we grabbed a couple of extra hopefuls ......it was not something we really needed to do UNLESS we really thought there were a couple of bargains

This is my thinking as well

Could’ve easily waited to grab him players later on in the piece, but feeling the need to trade up for targets - twice - is a sign to me that we rate both players a good way ahead of where they were selected

Whether we end up right is another thing altogether, but for now it’s solid work

 

[WaynesWorld19]

No ruck seems a bone of contention again that seems to be the main concern

The MSD is the better pathway for a young ruck

 

[crow2crow]

I agree with all the sentiments, but 12 months is a long time in AFL Footy & a lot can change .....I mean who thought COLL would have chased Tom Mitchell ....that was a real head scratcher.

that was exactly my point with crouch

 

[Mostyn]

Or we've paid a portion of Brown's salary out.

I can't believe that any club (yes, even one apparently as poorly run as ours) would pay out a whole year of a contract and not ask the player to play SANFL when the player is clearly good enough, and we have top ups playing there.

Are you suggesting that Brown stayed on our list?

Because if we've delisted him, I don't believe the SANFL allows him to play in our SANFL team the following year, do they?

I'm also not sure why you think we're so poorly run? We'd at least know the SANFL rules ...

 

[crow2crow]

Yeah, nothing backs my view of Keays..

Apart from;

The lions thought Ben was such a great player they delisted him..

And

No one but the crows even bothered to pick him up so they got him for free.

And

That our midfield this year looked terrible right up until the point where they finally moved Ben out of it.. and then after that point whenever Ben went back in there for short stints it went straight back to being garbage.

And

Anyone thats watched any football without wearing “ben keays” brand rose coloured glasses can clearly see Ben is a player who gives his all but has unbelievably poor skills and decision making.

I’ve been watching this game of football for over 40 years.. its very easy to recognise who the players with s**t skills are and those bereft of natural poise and talent. Ben is unfortunately one of them.

We have had the worst midfield in the comp for about 3 seasons now.. the results of which (bottom 5 finishes) are there for all there to see.. and Ben has been one of the main cogs in that s**t midfield.

I will continue pointing this out regardless of what the ben keays fan club in here desperately try to claim about him.

Its like they’ve never even seen the dozens and dozens of times we’ve all seen Ben streaming forward with ball in hand only to end up disposing of it with all the poise and skill of a d-grade ammo’s player..

Ben has been an ok stop gap for the last couple of years.. but its time to move on and prioritise guys like pedlar, rachele, rankine, soligo, berry, taylor, shoey, nankervis, cook in the midfield and mid/forward line..

Crouch, keays and sloane are the past… and its been an ugly ending under these guys last 3 seasons. Some of the worst in the clubs history.

Sorry it doesnt stack up. He is player 39 in the AFL rankings. Full stop. And look at this so WTF are you talking about?

 

[Vader]

Are you suggesting that Brown stayed on our list?

Because if we've delisted him, I don't believe the SANFL allows him to play in our SANFL team the following year, do they?

I'm also not sure why you think we're so poorly run? We'd at least know the SANFL rules ...

He's suggesting that we should have retained him on our AFL list, and played him in the SANFL - instead of encouraging him to retire.

 

[GrommoT]

I thought we had NM and GC seconds?? Could be wrong.

Lore does a stellar job keeping track of things and the current post in her 2023 draft order thread indicates we have 2 F2 picks from other clubs.

 

[Thetrader15]

He's suggesting that we should have retained him on our AFL list, and played him in the SANFL - instead of encouraging him to retire.

No, I'm suggesting that IF he was being paid his whole salary this year as you have suggested, then he should still be on the list.

However, I disagree with you that he's being paid his whole salary, evident by the fact that he's not on the list anymore.

 

[Vader]

No, I'm suggesting that IF he was being paid his whole salary this year as you have suggested, then he should still be on the list.

However, I disagree with you that he's being paid his whole salary, evident by the fact that he's not on the list anymore.

He's not being paid any salary by the AFC in 2023 - his 2023 salary was paid out (or an agreed settlement, which would have been a high percentage of his salary) in the 2022 salary cap.

 

[Thetrader15]

Are you suggesting that Brown stayed on our list?

Because if we've delisted him, I don't believe the SANFL allows him to play in our SANFL team the following year, do they?

I'm also not sure why you think we're so poorly run? We'd at least know the SANFL rules ...

No, I don't think Brown should be on the list, and I don't think we are so poorly run, hence the word "apparently" in my sentence.

Vader has alluded a few times Brown was paid out his whole salary for the year, hence our salary cap squeeze. This is ultimately what I'm disagreeing with.

 

[Thetrader15]

He's not being paid any salary by the AFC in 2023 - his 2023 salary was paid out (or an agreed settlement, which would have been a high percentage of his salary) in the 2022 salary cap.

OK, 2022 then...However we are getting somewhere. At least you're now aligned it's not his whole salary he's being paid after retiring for a year ;-)

For 2022, the salary cap is $13,540,000, and the salary floor is $12,863,000 - a difference of $677K. Let's assume that the club was at the salary floor in 2022, and that Brown's 2023 salary was going to be $500K (not unreasonable, given that he was a senior player in a list full of lowly paid juniors). That would only leave $177K for paying out any other player(s). If we assume it was $600K (still not unreasonable), then we're down to $77K remaining.

Do you see how Brown's payout leaves very little wiggle room for paying out additional players?

 

[Vader]

OK, 2022 then...However we are getting somewhere. At least you're now aligned it's not his whole salary he's being paid after retiring for a year ;-)

Not his whole salary... but the negotiated settlement would be very close to it.

Close enough, as makes no difference in a discussion about how much 2022 salary cap we have left available for paying out other contracted players.

 

[Sanders]

Vader, at the end of the day time will tell.

Problem with your argument is that time has already told

We offered him to all 17 other clubs during the last trade period, and guess how many were interested?

The year before that he was a free agent, and no interest

If he magically finds his best form again, of course he will attract some interest, but at the moment that’s as likely as him sprouting wings and learning to fly

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Problem with your argument is that time has already told

We offered him to all 17 other clubs during the last trade period, and guess how many were interested?

The year before that he was a free agent, and no interest

If he magically finds his best form again, of course he will attract some interest, but at the moment that’s as likely as him sprouting wings and learning to fly

This is not a definitive conclusion, you can draw.....there may have been interest in Crouch ..just not the terms that warranted him moving his pregnant partner interstate for

 

[George Kramer]

This is not a definitive conclusion, you can draw.....there may have been interest in Crouch ..just not the terms that warranted him moving his pregnant partner interstate for

If there was minor interest, certainly not in the second round compensation territory which started this

 

[WaynesWorld19]

If there was minor interest, certainly not in the second round compensation territory which started this

Oh hell know ! ......it would have been a 3rd or even 4th round pick ....in other words, free to a home, any home

 

[baldandbroke]

I’ve been watching this game of football for over 40 years.. its very easy to recognise who the players with s**t skills are and those bereft of natural poise and talent.

I feel the same way about posters on BF.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Sorry it doesnt stack up. He is player 39 in the AFL rankings. Full stop. And look at this so WTF are you talking about?

View attachment 1565471

Ooooooow, he gets his hands on the footy a lot!!..

That must mean he’s a gun right..
Right?..

The best thing for the team would actually be Keays getting his hands on the ball less.

Pointless getting the footy in your hands a lot if, when you dispose of it, you do so poorly.

Have you ever looked at the stats that keays, crouch, laird and sloane have accumulated over the last 3 years?.. and seen just how many possessions these lads get nearly every single game.. 30+ every game for each one of these lads..

Have you ever thought to yourself “if these lads are the gun midfielders I think they are and they are getting their hands on the footy so much… then… why the hell have we lost so many games and come bottom 5 the last 3 seasons”?..

Or do you just look at the stats and go “geez, they got a lot of the footy, more than anyone else in the team.. they are our gun players”.. without even noticing what these lads do with the footy when they get it..

 

[Hodgy]

At the end of the day, he's fighting to regain a position in our AFL team - hoping for a return to "near All Australian form" is like hoping that Malcolm Blight will coach the Crows to a 3rd premiership in 2023.

What's prudent is playing Crouch in the SANFL all year, so he can teach our younger midfielders while maximising the midfield time for the likes of Soligo & Berry in the AFL team.

As long as he’s not teaching them how to kick.

 

[Bearded Clam]

The MSD is the better pathway for a young ruck

Trading for an already developed one seems to be the go to method for many clubs these days..

 

[Bearded Clam]

As long as he’s not teaching them how to kick.

or handball backwards to team mates that are already under pressure..

 

[George Kramer]

Trading for an already developed one seems to be the go to method for many clubs these days..

Is it though?