Preview 2023 Rd 2 Carlton vs Geelong Thursday March 23 7:20PM @ MCG

[Aphrodite]

Team is in …

One (forced) change:

OUT: Hewett (hand)
IN: Durdin

AFL team selection: Blues make one change

Corey Durdin will return for Round 2.

www.carltonfc.com.au

Backs:	Nic Newman	Lewis Young	Lachie Cowan
Half-backs:	Sam Docherty	Jacob Weitering	Mitch McGovern
Centreline:	Blake Acres	Patrick Cripps	Ed Curnow
Half-forwards:	Jack Martin	Zac Fisher	Jack Silvagni
Forwards:	Corey Durdin	Charlie Curnow	Harry McKay
Followers:	Tom De Koning	Adam Cerra	Matthew Kennedy
Interchange:	Ollie Hollands	Jesse Motlop	Matthew Owies
	Adam Saad
Emergencies:	Josh Honey	Lochie O'Brien	Marc Pittonet
	Lachie Plowman

 

[Accidental genius]

Jsos has to score more. That’s the bottom line for him. More marks more goals.

 

[jj1978]

Filth defence conceded over 100... don’t be praising them as flag contenders yet. No recent premier had a game plan with against average over 100.

Not sure why Scott played the shootout game, with his old men... let’s see how Hawkins, SDK, Stengel pull up. Danger looks also a bit off and Guthrie did a Samson by cutting off his hair and lost his powers.

 

[momma juju]

JSOS or TDK -> Pittonet

Still surprised Pittonet wasn't named R1. IMO has to play this week.

TDK is a better backup ruck than JSOS, covers ground, more versatile, and I think has more long-term upside as a fwd target.

I know dropping JSOS didn't work out well last year.

I also know that playing both TDK and Pittonet last year wasn't a great look, but I think it's worth persisting with.


Owies -> Durdin

Desperately need forward pressure. Durdin brings it.




Both Fisher and Martin looked underdone and spent a stack of time on the bench. Can't see anyone in the reserves

Paddy Dow

15

Paddy Dow

Age

25

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

7.1

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.9

4star

CL

2.6

4star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

12.4

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

stiff to be left out. Played well in the 2's, but we've seen enough times now his ressies form does not always translate into AFL.

 

[jezzajay]

Newman did nothing but expose a defence that already had two midfielders playing zone reads in the corridor... he was below average with the most dour starting defensive look you'll see on an AFL football field in the last 2-3 years.

I'm also extremely focused on the small forward group, hence why you see me dropping two of them. If Cowan's injured and not just suffering cramp or a corkie, then that forces our hand a bit, but I would rather just dump midfielders into the team: bring in Dow, O'Brien, have Ed at half forward and get the wingers picking up the transitional slack as the Docherty and Saad play more conservatively.

* it, I'm revising it:

OUT: Newman, Fisher, Owies
IN: O'Brien, Dow, C.Durdin

FB: Cowan Young McGovern
HB: Docherty Weitering Saad
C: Acres Cerra O'Brien
HF: E.Curnow C.Curnow Motlop
FF: Silvagni McKay C.Durdin

R: TDK Cripps Hewett

Int: Kennedy, Hollands, Martin, Dow

Sub: Cincotta

He's not fit enough. Drop him.

Newman will not be dropped.

 

[Accidental genius]

Filth defence conceded over 100... don’t be praising them as flag contenders yet. No recent premier had a game plan with against average over 100.

Not sure why Scott played the shootout game, with his old men... let’s see how Hawkins, SDK, Stengel pull up. Danger looks also a bit off and Guthrie did a Samson by cutting off his hair and lost his powers.

Maybe but got to hand it to them. They got the job done impressively.

 

[I bleed Blue]

xDQ82x's mate: good to see you mate. How you been?

xDQ82x: good man. Ey... just had a few questions about the baggers

 

[reubsblues]

Obrien and honey should be into the 22 and Owies and Martin out
Dow to sub

 

[Monty1978]

I don’t get how martin gets so many chances and never gets dropped and Dow doesn’t get any game time and don’t say he had his chance or defensive bs .. give him a block of 3 games and see if can do something productive.
Also can Kemp second ruck , him
Instead of Martin or sos in the forward line might work.

 

[JustaBattler]

Carlton = Geelong in defensive mix ( could change with Stewart/the SDK injured)
Carlton < Geelong in getting the ball out of defensive 50.
Geelong > Carlton in transition
Bliclavs + the other ruck for Geelong > TDK and Jack
Midfield on ballers = Geelong
between the arcs outside players Geelong> Carlton ( Smith)
Cameron + Hawkins > Charlie and Harry
Stengle > than Martin+ Owies + Fisher combined

I think Geelong has Carlton well and truly covered for run and kicking skill.

In my mind what Voss can control ( fitness aside ) is:

1. Improve ruck combination = + Pittonet
2. Improve defensive running and execution = Fisher and Owies OUT but who is available ?
3. Put it on the midfield to stop getting hammered in CBB and clearances by getting sucked into contests

I don't think the game style = play for territory and kick it to Harry and Charlie long will change because Carlton doesn't have the small and medium forward mix that is finals quality atm ie none of Fisher/Owies/Martin/Jack/Motlop are going to win their own contests and score a goal themselves.

The defensive response to teams that will try and run the ball and look to kick through the middle is to stack the corridor and force opposition along the boundary - make the ground wider and longer...The attacking response is to hold possession and control ball movement and wait for the whole team to be in position - this makes it easy for the opposition to get set - but stops the opposition from continual run and gun and frustrates their preferred style.

Carlton's list hasn't got the transition attacking run OR defensive blocking run between the arcs as good as the top teams. Richmond was able to run the ball wide and then find corridor uncontested marks - over and over again.

The situation can't be improved until transitional run comes back ( Walsh) and better runners and finishers are added to forward pressure mix ( Cuningham)

There is no use persevering with Owies. There is no use asking Jack to be a CBB ruckman and an effective third tall. Fisher and Martin in particular need a kick up the pants we need 4 quarters not 2-3 cameo appearances a game.

Will take a lot of things going right for Carlton to win this game - but if TDK and Jack are the ruck duo - that will just hand CBB and around the ground contested ball to Geelong.

Just STOP with teh TDk/Jack ruck experiment - just STOP - it was forced last year and is a bad idea this year.

 

[myblueroan]

pie supporters 3 word vocab in regular use tonight

boo! ball! beer!

Cos we're so different stripey.
What?
Boo, ball, laVazza?

 

[myblueroan]

Carlton = Geelong in defensive mix ( could change with Stewart/the SDK injured)
Carlton < Geelong in getting the ball out of defensive 50.
Geelong > Carlton in transition
Bliclavs + the other ruck for Geelong > TDK and Jack
Midfield on ballers = Geelong
between the arcs outside players Geelong> Carlton ( Smith)
Cameron + Hawkins > Charlie and Harry
Stengle > than Martin+ Owies + Fisher combined

I think Geelong has Carlton well and truly covered for run and kicking skill.

In my mind what Voss can control ( fitness aside ) is:

1. Improve ruck combination = + Pittonet
2. Improve defensive running and execution = Fisher and Owies OUT but who is available ?
3. Put it on the midfield to stop getting hammered in CBB and clearances by getting sucked into contests

I don't think the game style = play for territory and kick it to Harry and Charlie long will change because Carlton doesn't have the small and medium forward mix that is finals quality atm ie none of Fisher/Owies/Martin/Jack/Motlop are going to win their own contests and score a goal themselves.

The defensive response to teams that will try and run the ball and look to kick through the middle is to stack the corridor and force opposition along the boundary - make the ground wider and longer...The attacking response is to hold possession and control ball movement and wait for the whole team to be in position - this makes it easy for the opposition to get set - but stops the opposition from continual run and gun and frustrates their preferred style.

Carlton's list hasn't got the transition attacking run OR defensive blocking run between the arcs as good as the top teams. Richmond was able to run the ball wide and then find corridor uncontested marks - over and over again.

The situation can't be improved until transitional run comes back ( Walsh) and better runners and finishers are added to forward pressure mix ( Cuningham)

There is no use persevering with Owies. There is no use asking Jack to be a CBB ruckman and an effective third tall. Fisher and Martin in particular need a kick up the pants we need 4 quarters not 2-3 cameo appearances a game.

Will take a lot of things going right for Carlton to win this game - but if TDK and Jack are the ruck duo - that will just hand CBB and around the ground contested ball to Geelong.

Just STOP with teh TDk/Jack ruck experiment - just STOP - it was forced last year and is a bad idea this year.

Then why didn't we recruit for it instead of getting in Acres? I think we are banking on Jesse being that and Durdin . If we want Fish doing that then play him in that position!

 

[myblueroan]

Acres won’t be dropped.


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Hopefully will improve over the season.

 

[Revenant1965]

How would this go (given who is available)?
Possible Fwds:
C.Durdin, H.McKay, JSOS
Martin, C.Curnow, Motlop
Hopefully Durdin is right to go, would love to add a fit Cuningham, and not sure where Honey is at...
Rucks: Pittonett, TDK (ruck/fwd)
No JSOS as 2nd ruck...

 

[Accidental genius]

How would this go (given who is available)?
Possible Fwds:
C.Durdin, H.McKay, JSOS
Martin, C.Curnow, Motlop
Hopefully Durdin is right to go, would love to add a fit Cuningham, and not sure where Honey is at...
Rucks: Pittonett, TDK (ruck/fwd)
No JSOS as 2nd ruck...

Yeah I like this approach.
Jsos as the third tall.
H, Charlie will be heavily marked so need jsos, Martin fish and the smalls to provide leads to spread their defence.

 

[JustaBattler]

Then why didn't we recruit for it instead of getting in Acres? I think we are banking on Jesse being that and Durdin . If we want Fish doing that then play him in that position!

1. Geelong played finals and prelims for 10 years before they won the flag last year. They are the best recruiting Club in the business and they got lucky in teh words of Scott himself Stengle + SDK in particular he didn't think they would be as good as they are last year....

2. Carlton drafted for leg speed and footballing ability last year in Hollands Cowan and the bargain hunting on Leemey and O'Brien - already we have better alternatives to Plowman and bolstered medium term flanking run in Hollands - Acres was the single trade. These are all ticks for medium term with Acres an improvement on LoB/Cottrell

3. No one planned for Pittonet to be injured - the ruck (IMO) is unfinished business with TDK tracking well as a ruck/forward - these take time.

The Club hasn't done anything 'wrong' since Austin took over - there won't be any McGovern/Martin/Williams deals ever done again at Carlton...

Getting to finals year in year out is first objective which is hard enough- from there you build out the missing bits and pieces.

People have unrealistic expectations about relative capability of their team - big difference between winning games off the back of your stars and being able to win games because you are just better all over the park and your game style holds up for all players on your list.

The forward mix for Carlton right now has to wait for more leg speed and finishing class and the between the arcs mix has to wait for better transitional running until that happens - every game will be a grind- because we are talking the basis of scoring ( transitional play) and finishing ability (forward mix)

 

[myblueroan]

1. Geelong played finals and prelims for 10 years before they won the flag last year. They are the best recruiting Club in the business and they got lucky in teh words of Scott himself Stengle + SDK in particular he didn't think they would be as good as they are last year....

2. Carlton drafted for leg speed and footballing ability last year in Hollands Cowan and the bargain hunting on Leemey and O'Brien - already we have better alternatives to Plowman and bolstered medium term flanking run in Hollands - Acres was the single trade. These are all ticks for medium term with Acres an improvement on LoB/Cottrell

3. No one planned for Pittonet to be injured - the ruck (IMO) is unfinished business with TDK tracking well as a ruck/forward - these take time.

The Club hasn't done anything 'wrong' since Austin took over - there won't be any McGovern/Martin/Williams deals ever done again at Carlton...

Getting to finals year in year out is first objective which is hard enough- from there you build out the missing bits and pieces.

People have unrealistic expectations about relative capability of their team - big difference between winning games off the back of your stars and being able to win games because you are just better all over the park and your game style holds up for all players on your list.

The forward mix for Carlton right now has to wait for more leg speed and finishing class and the between the arcs mix has to wait for better transitional running until that happens - every game will be a grind- because we are talking the basis of scoring ( transitional play) and finishing ability (forward mix)

All great points except I 'm questioning Acres as an upgrade on Lochie and Cotters. Would we have been wiser finding a crumbing dymamo if that is our weakness. That's what I'm pondering. It seems Acres is exactly like Lochie. No better or worse. All 3 are serviceable. Did we need 3 though?

 

[Arr0w]

The doom and gloom around here after NOT losing Thursday is a little bizarre.

 

[Juice030103]

The doom and gloom around here after NOT losing Thursday is a little bizarre.

It’s also frustrating and annoying


And the constant “these two teams are a level above” rubbish is annoying as. It’s bloody round 1. Premierships arent won in march. Everything’s gonna change there’s another 23 rounds of footy. Really bizarre


If people wanna give up this early do support another team

 

[Accidental genius]

All great points except I 'm questioning Acres as an upgrade on Lochie and Cotters. Would we have been wiser finding a crumbing dymamo if that is our weakness. That's what I'm pondering. It seems Acres is exactly like Lochie. No better or worse. All 3 are serviceable. Did we need 3 though?

If lob had a bit more contested ball winning ability he would become a very good wingman. Needs more experience to make better decisions but he would ultimately become a very good footballer. Atm he looks lost in contests. Imo that’s should be what he focusses on to improve.

 

[myblueroan]

The doom and gloom around here after NOT losing Thursday is a little bizarre.

Game style has me depressed Arrow.
Can't wait to be laughing about how stupid I was after we win next week.

Right now, I reckon it will be another dull slugfest and we may well get thumped.
Not a fan of over cautious stilted play.
After all, I'm a horse.
Let them run I say.

 

[Arr0w]

Game style has me depressed Arrow.
Can't wait to be laughing about how stupid I was after we win next week.

Right now, I reckon it will be another dull slugfest and we may well get thumped.
Not a fan of over cautious stilted play.
After all, I'm a horse.
Let them run I say.

Great watching an attacking brand of footy, but, has nothing to do with winning and losing games

 

[Accidental genius]

Game style has me depressed Arrow.
Can't wait to be laughing about how stupid I was after we win next week.

Right now, I reckon it will be another dull slugfest and we may well get thumped.
Not a fan of over cautious stilted play.
After all, I'm a horse.
Let them run I say.

Yeah I wonder if Vossy is deliberately slowing our ball movement because he wants us to keep focus on defence first and foremost. Gradually Build layers from there so over time our ball movement hopefully improves whilst maintainng good defensive structures.

I’m hoping this is the plan.

 

[myblueroan]

Great watching an attacking brand of footy, but, has nothing to do with winning and losing games

But Arrow, the last few years, teams have proven that attacking footy can win games.
Pies just did that.
Dogs have done that.
Hec, Dees have done that too.
Feels like going backwards.
Of course you need strong defence, and we have that!
I hope this week was an aberration.

 

[Arr0w]

But Arrow, the last few years, teams have proven that attacking footy can win games.
Pies just did that.
Dogs have done that.
Hec, Dees have done that too.
Feels like going backwards.
Of course you need strong defence, and we have that!
I hope this week was an aberration.

I think we will get a better idea, with a block of 6-7 games, even if we suffer a loss next week

 

[JustaBattler]

Being realistic about relative strengths and weaknesses isn't being 'doom and gloom' is it?