List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[kreuze_missile]

It's amazing how quickly things can change. Fisher was out the door a week ago, happy to see him go and now not so much. Proved a lot, still has a lot to prove but if that is a regular thing then perhaps he's great cover for an aging Docherty and Saad. In fact his game was extremely Saad like.

I’m still happy to see Fish move on.

He was fine.. but ran around on his own for four straight quarters.

I wonder what his opponents were doing… I know he had at least 1 kicked on him.

Not accountable, too small, doesn’t tackle.

 

[gbatman]

I’m still happy to see Fish move on.

He was fine.. but ran around on his own for four straight quarters.

I wonder what his opponents were doing… I know he had at least 1 kicked on him.

Not accountable, too small, doesn’t tackle.

The guy who is probably currently leading the Brownlow has done the same thing all season. Nothing wrong with that, it's a role and a very important role in the team.

As I have said before, half forward flank is not a lock down role, not always any way. At a high level, it's played in a similar way to a defensive wing role.

Is a bit small and the non tackling thing bothers me but players can change.

Thing is, if he does move on, games like that will up his value quite a lot. Potential suiters looking at him would have had a really good look at that game and would be thinking about how well that fits into their team. Leave him in the VFL and his value plummets. Same goes for Dow. He's beginning to prove himself at AFL level, if he goes then there should be more interested parties and the value goes up.

Seriously thought, how different was Fisher's game against the Saints than to what Nick Daicos has been doing all year?

 

[gbatman]

Resign
Cuninghamn, Marchbank, Silvagni, Dow, Fogarty, McGovern

Retire/Delist
Curnow, Honey, Plowman, Philp.

Rookie List
Sam Durdin

38

Sam Durdin

Age

28

Ht

199cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.7

2star

K

6.2

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

11.2

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.6

4star

, Jack Carroll

Depending on salary cap, it's probably enough.

Probably need to try and trade O'Brien. Maybe Fisher if the cap is still too tight.

If the cap is manageable then minimal list changes is probably on the cards. Having better depth, players we can regularly play and rely on is the key to minimising injuries and taking the next step.

Quality is good enough, think we have a good enough list, just the depth, which is growing from recruiting and maturity is getting better.


Think contract duration may be the part that helps us keep players. Injury prone players will want longer contracts and maybe we just have to bit the bullet and do it. Cuningham, Marchbank and McGovern likely to ask for 3 years. Maybe we can compromise 3 years with a injury related clause.

 

[BigFrizz36]

I’m still happy to see Fish move on.

He was fine.. but ran around on his own for four straight quarters.

I wonder what his opponents were doing… I know he had at least 1 kicked on him.

Not accountable, too small, doesn’t tackle.

He ran round by himself because the saints wanted to tag Saady and double team Charlie. Common sense that we had to have someone free somewhere.

Was a real offensive weapon. His choice of options in the corridor was sublime.

Might not work every week but it's best to watch the game without pre conceived ideas about players.

 

[Bletch]

Resign
Cuninghamn, Marchbank, Silvagni, Dow, Fogarty, McGovern

Retire/Delist
Curnow, Honey, Plowman, Philp.

Rookie List
Sam Durdin, Jack Carroll

Depending on salary cap, it's probably enough.

Probably need to try and trade O'Brien. Maybe Fisher if the cap is still too tight.

If the cap is manageable then minimal list changes is probably on the cards. Having better depth, players we can regularly play and rely on is the key to minimising injuries and taking the next step.

Quality is good enough, think we have a good enough list, just the depth, which is growing from recruiting and maturity is getting better.


Think contract duration may be the part that helps us keep players. Injury prone players will want longer contracts and maybe we just have to bit the bullet and do it. Cuningham, Marchbank and McGovern likely to ask for 3 years. Maybe we can compromise 3 years with a injury related clause.

Current List:
Senior - 34 + 2 (Inactive)
Rookie - 8
Cat-B - 1

Retire/Delist
Curnow, Honey, Plowman, Philp.

Williams returns to the senior list.

New List (after delistings):
Senior - 33
Rookie - 7
Cat-B - 1

Rookie List
Sam Durdin, Jack Carroll

Sam is already a rookie. Carroll is contracted on senior list for 2024. Don't think he can move to Rookie, and even if he can, it doesn't make sense, as we already have too many rookies. Instead need to elevate or delist at least one.

As a minimum list change scenario, could leave it as is, elevate two rookies, use our 1st round draft pick. Then would have:

New List (after draft/upgrades):
Senior - 36
Rookie - 5
Cat-B - 1

Leaving one spot open on the rookie list.

 

[Benaly28]

I’d offer a package deal for Dow with LOB thrown in as well but like suns did with Bowes last year with their salary cap dump.


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[BigFrizz36]

I’d offer a package deal for Dow with LOB thrown in as well but like suns did with Bowes last year with their salary cap dump.


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You're saying that they can't fit under our salary cap so we should trade them out and offer a team a first round draft pick as well to take them?

That's what the sun's did with Bowes.

Pretty sure that you don't mean that.

 

[true blue19]

I think we should ignore the temptation to trade in more mature players and focus on the draft for another year at least, the playing list is solid and a nice age/experience demographic. Salary cap is tight and we've traded in Martin, Williams, Saad, Cerra, Hewett and Acres recently.
Might be time to reconsider trading away Dow, JSOS and Fish for SFA in order to accommodate the next bright/shiny thing.

I don't think we need to trade in stars but I do think we need to trade in or pick DFA for depth especially talls, I think we need a ready to Ruck, Tall forward and maybe even a tall defender. I wouldn't mind more depth in small forwards as well depending on trades and delistings.

 

[LemmingMaster]

There are going to be times that we need to trade away some depth players. If I was Fisher, I'd be looking for a chance at another club. What Carlton have shown is the ability for him to play a role in the backline. While one week does not make a season, he looked very good at that role.

Just hoping that Eagles can pony up something okay. I think we may only get a third round selection for him.

 

[Sector 7G]

There are going to be times that we need to trade away some depth players. If I was Fisher, I'd be looking for a chance at another club. What Carlton have shown is the ability for him to play a role in the backline. While one week does not make a season, he looked very good at that role.

Just hoping that Eagles can pony up something okay. I think we may only get a third round selection for him.

The problem with that is Fish isn't the type of player WC need when they will be giving up 60 I50 a week next year. He is a cream on the cake type footballer. I think it would be a bad career move for him.

 

[BigFrizz36]

The problem with that is Fish isn't the type of player WC need when they will be giving up 60 I50 a week next year. He is a cream on the cake type footballer. I think it would be a bad career move for him.

Yep. They have indicated that they won't be pursuing fish.

 

[gadj1976]

Apologies I haven't gone through the latest feed but after the game on the weekend, what's your thoughts on Gresham. I didn't think he did much, so didn't increase my thoughts or his case to come over.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Apologies I haven't gone through the latest feed but after the game on the weekend, what's your thoughts on Gresham. I didn't think he did much, so didn't increase my thoughts or his case to come over.

I think the question is - do we still have a hole at HFF? Who does he replace and/or free up to play elsewhere.

I feel like our best 7 forward combination is

HF XXX Harry Martin
FF Motlop Charlie JSOS (as resting ruck)
Bench XXX

Atm those last two spots are up for grabs:
-Cuningham for HFF probably leads the pack here, but he's injury prone
-Owies is our smartest forward and does a lot off the ball, but he's physically limited
-Durdin is a fan favourite and IMO will be best 22 eventually
-Fisher probably will be HBF or bust/trade
-Fogarty is probably the best out of anyone for pressure

Locks
Martin to me is a lock due to his marking ability. Motlop for his natural goal kicking ability is likewise a lock.

XXX spots
Gresham probably is in this mix to play in the XXX spots... Has a high ceiling but is inaccurate for goal. Out of the above, I'd lean towards playing Cuningham at HFF and Fog off the bench. Probably worth getting for cheap and if free from a draft pick perspective.

 

[bluesDeluxe]

8 weeks ago I was thinking using next years first to get a pick this year.

Now I'm thinking we should split our first, like we did with Kemp, Philp

 

[bigblueboy]

Apologies I haven't gone through the latest feed but after the game on the weekend, what's your thoughts on Gresham. I didn't think he did much, so didn't increase my thoughts or his case to come over.

Played like he has checked out already.

Fascinating part of the debate is that half way through this season, the role that Gresham plays (half-forward with time in mid) was possibly the most gaping hole on the list.
Seven weeks later and we seem to have plenty of options.
Question is whether season A or season B is more representative of where our list is at and therefore how much might want/need Gresham.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

I think the question is - do we still have a hole at HFF? Who does he replace and/or free up to play elsewhere.

I feel like our best 7 forward combination is

HF XXX Harry Martin
FF Motlop Charlie JSOS (as resting ruck)
Bench XXX

Atm those last two spots are up for grabs:
-Cuningham for HFF probably leads the pack here, but he's injury prone
-Owies is our smartest forward and does a lot off the ball, but he's physically limited
-Durdin is a fan favourite and IMO will be best 22 eventually
-Fisher probably will be HBF or bust/trade
-Fogarty is probably the best out of anyone for pressure

Locks
Martin to me is a lock due to his marking ability. Motlop for his natural goal kicking ability is likewise a lock.

XXX spots
Gresham probably is in this mix to play in the XXX spots... Has a high ceiling but is inaccurate for goal. Out of the above, I'd lean towards playing Cuningham at HFF and Fog off the bench. Probably worth getting for cheap and if free from a draft pick perspective.

A decent chance Fogarty and Fisher aren’t on our list next season. Would prefer to retain both but spots are tight and Fish has interest from other clubs.

Let’s not forget how often Martin and Cuningham have been injured over the years. They are currently producing what we know they can and still have scope for improvement with Harry back but we’re kidding ourselves if we rely on them for 22 games in 2024.

I just don’t think we should be turning down a free, AFL quality half forward flank who will fit our list profile perfectly. If it’s not Gresham we need to make sure it’s someone else. It’s been our weakest position on the ground for years and 7 great weeks from the above names doesn’t really change that.

Schulz is another player I’d be interest in who will cost 0.

 

[Juddernaut08]

A decent chance Fogarty and Fisher aren’t on our list next season. Would prefer to retain both but spots are tight and Fish has interest from other clubs.

Let’s not forget how often Martin and Cuningham have been injured over the years. They are currently producing what we know they can and still have scope for improvement with Harry back but we’re kidding ourselves if we rely on them for 22 games in 2024.

I just don’t think we should be turning down a free, AFL quality half forward flank who will fit our list profile perfectly. If it’s not Gresham we need to make sure it’s someone else. It’s been our weakest position on the ground for years and 7 great weeks from the above names doesn’t really change that.

Schulz is another player I’d be interest in who will cost 0.

Yeah great point.

From my list above, we have 3 spots to fill with Cuningham/Martin/XXX...but really we need to factor in backups.

Owies/Durdin/Fogarty sounds ok. Adding Gresham to that mix helps.

 

[Benaly28]

You're saying that they can't fit under our salary cap so we should trade them out and offer a team a first round draft pick as well to take them?

That's what the sun's did with Bowes.

Pretty sure that you don't mean that.

No I’m not.I’m saying we should get rid of LOB as well if Dow goes,as a package,take both off our hands if it goes that way especially with Dow.LOB on the open market would be worth nothing.I just used the suns as an example of a ‘package’ nothing to do with salary cap even though they did that as a salary dump.


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[JustOneTime]

Over their career there is not much between Gresham and Fisher. Notably, over that time Gresham has had a year head start and played in a stronger team meaning more shared ball.

I'd find it silly for Carlton to move Fisher on and take Gresham.

 

[Doro]

Over their career there is not much between Gresham and Fisher. Notably, over that time Gresham has had a year head start and played in a stronger team meaning more shared ball.

I'd find it silly for Carlton to move Fisher on and take Gresham.

Gresham maybe a bit better tackling but not much of an upgrade on an in form Fisher. I think it's the Martin type we need backup for, really missed the extra marking presence during his absence.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Over their career there is not much between Gresham and Fisher. Notably, over that time Gresham has had a year head start and played in a stronger team meaning more shared ball.

I'd find it silly for Carlton to move Fisher on and take Gresham.

Zac Fisher and Jade Gresham AFL Stats Comparison

Zac Fisher and Jade Gresham AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Fisher’s best season (2022) vs Gresham in 2023

Fish slightly better, but not a hell of a lot between them.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Just imagine everyone up and running - dare to dream.
Newman Weitering Kemp
McGovern Marchbank Saad
Acres Cripps Docherty
Williams CCurnow Cuningham
Martin McKay Silvagni
De Koning Cerra Walsh
Kennedy Motlop Hollands Boyd/Cincotta
Sub: Dow

 

[Blue__Balls]

Gresham maybe a bit better tackling but not much of an upgrade on an in form Fisher. I think it's the Martin type we need backup for, really missed the extra marking presence during his absence.

Spot on. That being said, if Fish and Gresham are comparable for salary, but we can flip Fish for a pick in the 30s, that may just be good horse trading. Get a slight upgrade on Fisher plus a decent draft pick, only downside is potential disharmony if Fisher's teammates take issue with him being cut. If he instigates the move looking for more opportunity though, it's an easy avenue to replacing him with a handy mature player.

The Martin role is one I think we need to look to the draft for. There are a few good options at other clubs, but none that look like they're on the market. Kyle Langford and Michael Frederick top my list, but both contracted til 2026 and their clubs would probably just tell us to piss off. Ash Johnson contracted til 2025, but has been dropped once or twice by the Pies I think...maybe more achievable? A few in this draft though, and some may be good candidates for our first pick.

 

[lukep_86]

It's amazing how quickly things can change. Fisher was out the door a week ago, happy to see him go and now not so much. Proved a lot, still has a lot to prove but if that is a regular thing then perhaps he's great cover for an aging Docherty and Saad. In fact his game was extremely Saad like.

This has been the story of Fish's career IMO. Shown glimpses of how good he can be (which is very good), and can go missing at times.

I rate him when he's on, but he's been someone who hasn't fulfilled his potential.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Austin and Agresta finally back from their Irish recruiting spree....they've decided on our latest Cat B rookie