List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[jackn]

Probably need to try and trade O'Brien. Maybe Fisher if the cap is still too tight.

Think contract duration may be the part that helps us keep players. Injury prone players will want longer contracts and maybe we just have to bit the bullet and do it. Cuningham, Marchbank and McGovern likely to ask for 3 years. Maybe we can compromise 3 years with a injury related clause.

If we can get anyone to take LOB, we should jump at the opportunity. We brought in 3 wings this year and 2 are definitely ahead of him, the 3rd most likely is too.

Offering a 3 year contract to any of those guys would be crazy. We've had the worst injury list in the comp for years, need to start moving on the perennially injured. Cunners is the only one I'd even consider giving 2 years to. 1 year to marchy and gov. If someone wants to offer them a long term deal, good luck to them.

 

[Doro]

Spot on. That being said, if Fish and Gresham are comparable for salary, but we can flip Fish for a pick in the 30s, that may just be good horse trading. Get a slight upgrade on Fisher plus a decent draft pick, only downside is potential disharmony if Fisher's teammates take issue with him being cut. If he instigates the move looking for more opportunity though, it's an easy avenue to replacing him with a handy mature player.

The Martin role is one I think we need to look to the draft for. There are a few good options at other clubs, but none that look like they're on the market. Kyle Langford and Michael Frederick top my list, but both contracted til 2026 and their clubs would probably just tell us to piss off. Ash Johnson contracted til 2025, but has been dropped once or twice by the Pies I think...maybe more achievable? A few in this draft though, and some may be good candidates for our first pick.

Tend to agree with the draft being the most likely option. Ash Johnson has his moments, good overhead but not really bringing any heat to the defensive side of things so would probably be in and out of our side.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

Lewis Young

33

Lewis Young

Age

26

Ht

202cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.6

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

197.9

3star

D

4.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

1.0

1star

M

3.0

3star

T

0.0

1star

MG

26.0

1star

D

14.4

4star

K

8.2

4star

HB

6.2

4star

M

6.4

5star

T

2.0

4star

MG

181.6

3star

has become a very interesting one for mine.

Would not surprise at all to see him moved on despite extending for three years earlier this season, he appears to have lost confidence and I don't think the MC want to risk playing him in the backline again. So it's either rebadge him as a ruck/forward (not sure that is really his go?) or perhaps facilitate a trade with another club that see his talent as a KPD (and he is definitely talented, just has lost a lot of confidence and also doesn't seem to fit well within our current defensive pattern).

Can see other clubs being interested and we might just be keen to free up a list spot.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Over their career there is not much between Gresham and Fisher. Notably, over that time Gresham has had a year head start and played in a stronger team meaning more shared ball.

I'd find it silly for Carlton to move Fisher on and take Gresham.

If there’s nothing between Fisher and Gresham, then Carlton wins a free draft pick. It’s that simple


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[koutashoulda1_1]

Lewis Young has become a very interesting one for mine.

Would not surprise at all to see him moved on despite extending for three years earlier this season, he appears to have lost confidence and I don't think the MC want to risk playing him in the backline again. So it's either rebadge him as a ruck/forward (not sure that is really his go?) or perhaps facilitate a trade with another club that see his talent as a KPD (and he is definitely talented, just has lost a lot of confidence and also doesn't seem to fit well within our current defensive pattern).

Can see other clubs being interested and we might just be keen to free up a list spot.

Necessary depth imo, might come in to a spot of his own if we lose Gov (which I hope we don't, despite the coniptions he gives me every time i read his curs-ed name of an injury list update).

I'd love Liam damn Jones back tbh. Besides Weiters, the rest leave me feeling nervous either for their health or their goal assisting the other side

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

Necessary depth imo, might come in to a spot of his own if we lose Gov (which I hope we don't, despite the coniptions he gives me every time i read his curs-ed name of an injury list update).

I'd love Liam damn Jones back tbh. Besides Weiters, the rest leave me feeling nervous either for their health or their goal assisting the other side

I honestly believe they don't want to play him at the moment, and would pick Sam Durdin if it came down to it. Given that he was likely given a healthy contract for the three years, they may be willing to move that money off the books and find a cheaper depth option.

 

[JustOneTime]

If there’s nothing between Fisher and Gresham, then Carlton wins a free draft pick. It’s that simple


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That discard mentality screwed Freo over this year. I'm not a fan.

Build integrity and something special. Unless of course, the reward is significant.

 

[Juddrockz]

Necessary depth imo, might come in to a spot of his own if we lose Gov (which I hope we don't, despite the coniptions he gives me every time i read his curs-ed name of an injury list update).

I'd love Liam damn Jones back tbh. Besides Weiters, the rest leave me feeling nervous either for their health or their goal assisting the other side

Its plain to see Weiters doesnt want Young anywhere near him in the backline.
Once Young was moved out of the backline Weiters form went back to his best. Coincendence,i think not.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

We still have Gov, Williams, Boyd and possibly Cowan who can play the role Fish done on the weekend. It was probably one of the best games I’ve seen from him but I’m not convinced he is best 22 so I don’t think much will change with us being open to him leaving in the same way Setterfield looked good at the end of last season but he still wouldn’t be in our side atm.

 

[Blue__Balls]

The other concern with Fisher is that it took being dropped for an extended period, and then an opportunity presenting through injury, for him to crack the seniors and put in a good performance.

He wasn't smashing the door down in the reserves. He was good there, but not dominant. If we hadn't lost Cerra and Walsh and Kennedy and maybe Boyd at the same time then this game probably never eventuates.

Does Fisher have the drive and desire to keep putting in 110% every week as part of the whole-club buy-in? Or is he going to play a couple of good games to prove to the coaches he's capable, and then quietly slip back towards placid and half-hearted efforts as he begins to feel like his senior position is established? Will he need to be dropped 4-5 times a year to maintain that desire?

Question for the club of course, nobody here knows his mind, all we have are stats. But something that I hope Austin and Voss are considering. No passengers any more, move them on and fill the list with players who have competitive integrity.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

The other concern with Fisher is that it took being dropped for an extended period, and then an opportunity presenting through injury, for him to crack the seniors and put in a good performance.

He wasn't smashing the door down in the reserves. He was good there, but not dominant. If we hadn't lost Cerra and Walsh and Kennedy and maybe Boyd at the same time then this game probably never eventuates.

Does Fisher have the drive and desire to keep putting in 110% every week as part of the whole-club buy-in? Or is he going to play a couple of good games to prove to the coaches he's capable, and then quietly slip back towards placid and half-hearted efforts as he begins to feel like his senior position is established? Will he need to be dropped 4-5 times a year to maintain that desire?

Question for the club of course, nobody here knows his mind, all we have are stats. But something that I hope Austin and Voss are considering. No passengers any more, move them on and fill the list with players who have competitive integrity.

Fish was exceptional and his talent has never been questioned, his consistency and ability to grind in when it was tough or the game was getting away from us were always the knocks, the fact he was probably our best player at half time when we were getting smashed is a huge tick for Fish.. I doubt it will be the clubs choice if he stays or goes, like Dow and JSOS they will all field offers from other clubs and be able to asses them on the merits of $, opportunity and tenure.. For someone like Fish i think its unlikely we offer him anything more than a 1 year deal on base wage, he will get a 2 year deal from a host of other clubs without question so its likely he leaves, the same will be with Dow.

 

[Stamos]

Fish was exceptional and his talent has never been questioned, his consistency and ability to grind in when it was tough or the game was getting away from us were always the knocks, the fact he was probably our best player at half time when we were getting smashed is a huge tick for Fish.. I doubt it will be the clubs choice if he stays or goes, like Dow and JSOS they will all field offers from other clubs and be able to asses them on the merits of $, opportunity and tenure.. For someone like Fish i think its unlikely we offer him anything more than a 1 year deal on base wage, he will get a 2 year deal from a host of other clubs without question so its likely he leaves, the same will be with Dow.

Fisher has 2 more years of a contract

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Fisher has 2 more years of a contract

brain fart.. scratch that then I dont think he is on massive cash and would be happy for him to stay around unless something reasonable comes as a trade.

 

[Stamos]

brain fart.. scratch that then I dont think he is on massive cash and would be happy for him to stay around unless something reasonable comes as a trade.

Yeah, it would be about opportunity for him, and then we'd need something reasonable back while clearing a bit of cap space. I doubt we're desperate to move him on.

 

[blues4flag]

I honestly believe they don't want to play him at the moment, and would pick Sam Durdin if it came down to it. Given that he was likely given a healthy contract for the three years, they may be willing to move that money off the books and find a cheaper depth option.

I'm in the same boat. Think he's the most destabilizing player in the team when he's there. Lacks intensity and physicality, incredibly slow and indecisive with ball in hands, and while he's good at spoiling, he takes no care in where he directs the spoil. Not to mention how much confidence plays a part in his performances.

Compared to everybody else in the backline (except Marchbank at the moment), the difference in composure is night and day. Everyone there is composed and reliable with ball in hand.

It's evident Weitering isn't a fan. When Jones was there, Weiters would praise him at any opportunity. He does the same with Kemp and McGovern. Not sure I've even heard him mention. Young's name.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I'm in the same boat. Think he's the most destabilizing player in the team when he's there. Lacks intensity and physicality, incredibly slow and indecisive with ball in hands, and while he's good at spoiling, he takes no care in where he directs the spoil. Not to mention how much confidence plays a part in his performances.

Compared to everybody else in the backline (except Marchbank at the moment), the difference in composure is night and day. Everyone there is composed and reliable with ball in hand.

It's evident Weitering isn't a fan. When Jones was there, Weiters would praise him at any opportunity. He does the same with Kemp and McGovern. Not sure I've even heard him mention. Young's name.

If North lose McKay they could be looking for reinforcements and might be an opportunity to shift Young if this is the coaches opinion and if the rumours that he and Weitering dont speak are true.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

That discard mentality screwed Freo over this year. I'm not a fan.

Build integrity and something special. Unless of course, the reward is significant.

Fishers on the block already, coaches and recruitment team have had many years of looking at what Fish has to offer overall.

To me, it’s called good list management.

If Fish stays then Gresham should not be brought in.


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[DangerousD]

Regardless of one’s views on Young’s ability as a player, talk of it being evident that Weitering hates playing with him is ridiculous.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

You can see that not only have the fundamental standards by coaches/players been set, although that would have started last year but has had to be reinforced during this years poor patch…

They now are actually being implemented fully by the players, we can clearly see the required levels of application commitment effort pressure attitude harder edge as the main staples intergrated into our system, amongst a few of the game style changes along the way have complimented the entire balance with the way we are now playing…

Its now becoming a very entertaining style which is beginning to feel like the weekly effort can be more fully trusted, with still plenty of upside to come…

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Fishers on the block already, coaches and recruitment team have had many years of looking at what Fish has to offer overall.

To me, it’s called good list management.

If Fish stays then Gresham should not be brought in.


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[gadj1976]

Over their career there is not much between Gresham and Fisher. Notably, over that time Gresham has had a year head start and played in a stronger team meaning more shared ball.

I'd find it silly for Carlton to move Fisher on and take Gresham.

I agree. He knows the game plan, Voss and his teammates know what to expect and how he plays. No brainer for mine. As far as list management goes, the more minimal changes you have, unless you need to of course.

 

[Bluey19]

Necessary depth imo, might come in to a spot of his own if we lose Gov (which I hope we don't, despite the coniptions he gives me every time i read his curs-ed name of an injury list update).

I'd love Liam damn Jones back tbh. Besides Weiters, the rest leave me feeling nervous either for their health or their goal assisting the other side

Liam Jones ewwwww.

 

[koutashoulda1_1]

Im not particularly close with Weiters so will take your word for it. I will say I dont want him in the forward line again GlennArchering Charlie.

He's definitely a clutz, and not best 22, but we wont likely find a star KPD for our depth roster. Has played a few roles and been ok, on a longish term contract. Let him be I reckon

Its plain to see Weiters doesnt want Young anywhere near him in the backline.
Once Young was moved out of the backline Weiters form went back to his best. Coincendence,i think not.

 

[Juddernaut08]

I'm in the same boat. Think he's the most destabilizing player in the team when he's there. Lacks intensity and physicality, incredibly slow and indecisive with ball in hands, and while he's good at spoiling, he takes no care in where he directs the spoil. Not to mention how much confidence plays a part in his performances.

Compared to everybody else in the backline (except Marchbank at the moment), the difference in composure is night and day. Everyone there is composed and reliable with ball in hand.

It's evident Weitering isn't a fan. When Jones was there, Weiters would praise him at any opportunity. He does the same with Kemp and McGovern. Not sure I've even heard him mention. Young's name.

I think this is unfair - I've heard Weiters praise Young so that part is at least not true.

I do agree though that he is not best 22. Just like there is forwardline chemistry, the synergies between the backline is important too.

Young:

-as an individual defender is solid
...great length, height and decent speed
...reads the play well and takes a lot of intercept marks
...poor body work and doesn't have a strong enough lower body to hold his own in a wrestle

-as a team defender is average to poor
...will often get in the way in a pack mark situation preventing Weiters from doing his thing
...doesn't put on blocks
...doesn't communicate or work well with the other defenders

-with ball in hand is atrocious
...slow, like treacle slow
...poor decision maker
...poor kick

McGovern and to a lesser extent Kemp have much higher football IQs than Young. Young's sole benefit compared to those 2 is that his size is a better matchup when we face a team with 2 monsters (ala Geelong, Brisbane). Literally everything else Young makes us worse.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

If we can get anyone to take LOB, we should jump at the opportunity. We brought in 3 wings this year and 2 are definitely ahead of him, the 3rd most likely is too.

I agree LOB needs to go but it would be interesting to see how he would be playing in this Carlton side that has just won 7 in a row and moving the ball with freedom.

He just never looked made for AFL. He looks shy and almost apologetic for being out on an AFL ground. Contrast that with Ollie Hollands who looks like he's relishing it out there and has just fitted straight in.