List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[kreuze_missile]

Can someone identify why Voss rates pitto so highly?

When Pitto attends stoppages we have the best clearance differential in the comp.

Voss clearly prioritises field position and clearance above all else, and happy to concede the downside of playing the least mobile one dimensional ruckman in the comp.

Pitto’s ugly but effective ruckwork is the exact opposite of what TDK brings. I guess that makes them a good combo…?

 

[Accidental genius]

When Pitto attends stoppages we have the best clearance differential in the comp.

Voss clearly prioritises field position and clearance above all else, and happy to concede the downside of playing the least mobile one dimensional ruckman in the comp.

Pitto’s ugly but effective ruckwork is the exact opposite of what TDK brings. I guess that makes them a good combo…?

Stats might back it up but to the eye he doesn’t come across as a good ruckman.

But as you say he’s doing something that is helping us win more clearances. So his ruck work is effective as you say if not pretty.

 

[Opium]

Since we look finals bound and have some pretty big contracts, maybe not chasing a FA and only going to the draft might be a logical way forward for a year or 2 imo.

Now would be a good time to pull back if we can on spendings and invest in our youth and bring the cap back.

Tbh the only free agent next year I like is Hugh Mccluggage and tbh he may be surplus to our needs.

Not sure why we would want Gresham TBH. Go to the draft and if we can save some money to use on front loading some contracts.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Trade Carroll back home, sign Paddy to a fair but modest 2 year deal…

Getting bent over for a bugger all back end of draft pick is utter nonsense, who else do we have on our list of his age or younger that can/could have come in and played a role to that standard in our depleted midfield?

No one, because we actually have bugger all list wise of proper up and coming midfielder depth developing in the reserves who are capable or available to do so…

Why would the club/persons at club if this article is actually true be handing out information about what we are willing to except trade/draft pick wise, you are totally throwing your hand away with any trade value leverage you hold, it makes no sense…

Fair enough stating you are willing to facilitating trades for players that might help both players and the club out but don’t give away any information on actual trade value…

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

The question is more; Why would Dow want to stay at Carlton? He's not in our best midfield mix when they are all healthy and he'll likely spend the majority of his career in the VFL with us.

Commend him for plugging away in the 2s working on his deficiencies but he's not getting a midfield role ahead of Cripps Walsh or Cerra and Hewett/Kennedy compliment that group better than he does.

Best move for him is going somewhere he's confident he'd be in the starting mix for at least the next few years.

 

[blues4flag]

The question is more; Why would Dow want to stay at Carlton? He's not in our best midfield mix when they are all healthy and he'll likely spend the majority of his career in the VFL with us.

Commend him for plugging away in the 2s working on his deficiencies but he's not getting a midfield role ahead of Cripps Walsh or Cerra and Hewett/Kennedy compliment that group better than he does.

Best move for him is going somewhere he's confident he'd be in the starting mix for at least the next few years.

Agreed. He's done the apprenticeship, and now needs time at the level to get up to speed. Unlikely to get that at Carlton.

 

[myblueroan]

The question is more; Why would Dow want to stay at Carlton? He's not in our best midfield mix when they are all healthy and he'll likely spend the majority of his career in the VFL with us.

Commend him for plugging away in the 2s working on his deficiencies but he's not getting a midfield role ahead of Cripps Walsh or Cerra and Hewett/Kennedy compliment that group better than he does.

Best move for him is going somewhere he's confident he'd be in the starting mix for at least the next few years.

Wish him the best whatever happens. So happy he got the chance to show his potential and resilience and tenacity.
He endured and persisted, got his chance and continues to improve. He needs to do whatever is best for him at this stage.

 

[BlueJet]

Stats might back it up but to the eye he doesn’t come across as a good ruckman.

But as you say he’s doing something that is helping us win more clearances. So his ruck work is effective as you say if not pretty.

It's interesting how we can see the same things & interpret them completely differently dependent on how we rate individual attributes.
To my eye, Pitt is clearly the best tap ruckman but his statline puts him behind the likes of TDK & JSOS in the eyes of some fans.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

The question is more; Why would Dow want to stay at Carlton? He's not in our best midfield mix when they are all healthy and he'll likely spend the majority of his career in the VFL with us.

Commend him for plugging away in the 2s working on his deficiencies but he's not getting a midfield role ahead of Cripps Walsh or Cerra and Hewett/Kennedy compliment that group better than he does.

Best move for him is going somewhere he's confident he'd be in the starting mix for at least the next few years.

I get a sense that he absolutely loves the club and his teammates and despite having to work his arse off over that past two years at reserves level working on deficiencies which has led to playing very little senior footy, there’s a slight chance he could quite possibly still want to back himself in and hang around still knowing that there is the possibility of not given more game opportunities…

This would have to mean that he would need to take a very modest deal (if the club is also happy to keep him in these circumstances) stay for less or go to another club and get a better deal and the possibility of playing more senior footy…

It’s looking like the club is happy to move him on for whatever deal they can get for him, if that’s the case and he moves on then I’m sure he’ll carve out a good career for himself with more opportunities particularly now that he is now much better physically developed as a player and ready to produce on a more consistent basis…

 

[The Return of the Paf]

Trade Carroll back home, sign Paddy to a fair but modest 2 year deal…

Getting bent over for a bugger all back end of draft pick is utter nonsense, who else do we have on our list of his age or younger that can/could have come in and played a role to that standard in our depleted midfield?

No one, because we actually have bugger all list wise of proper up and coming midfielder depth developing in the reserves who are capable or available to do so…

Why would the club/persons at club if this article is actually true be handing out information about what we are willing to except trade/draft pick wise, you are totally throwing your hand away with any trade value leverage you hold, it makes no sense…

Fair enough stating you are willing to facilitating trades for players that might help both players and the club out but don’t give away any information on actual trade value…

The only thing I can think of is reverse psychology to create more interest. On that note; is a third rounder for next year's draft 'little to no compensation'?

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

The only thing I can think of is reverse psychology to create more interest. On that note; is a third rounder for next year's draft 'little to no compensation'?

It will get chewed up for points, for the Campo twins…

 

[Matty411]

I've been on board the Gresham train as I firmly believe his current (2023) form is masked by his mindset and attitude. If we can get him for low-cost (average wage for eg) then he could be a smart buy.

Take away his poor form this year, and he has great versatility + speed and excitement. Give him a big preseason and watch him flourish in Navy Blue.

Of course, if the cost is too high - I'd be saying "no thanks" as our #1 priority should now be keeping the current core group together for the next 5-6 years.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

It will get chewed up for points, for the Campo twins…

Precisely the point; don't you pay the exact points for the position the player is taken at (minus the points reduction) with lower picks rising up the draft board? It's not exactly 'chewed up'.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Currently from memory we have a first round pick and 2 x 4th rounders. Not too long back some had up to 12 list changes , which included the likes of Martin, cuningham, fogarty and Marchbank. Even Dow and Fisher (who were both gone a week ago) you'd love to keep on the list if we could afford them.

Probably going to have to be some hard decisions made. I'll say one thing. There are not too many lists in the afl that could cope with our current injuries, be able to beat a team 5th on the ladder and still be blooding some really good prospects like Binns, cowan, Lemmey, O'Keeffe and c. Durdin in the reserves.

 

[kreuze_missile]

The question is more; Why would Dow want to stay at Carlton? He's not in our best midfield mix when they are all healthy and he'll likely spend the majority of his career in the VFL with us.

Dow & his manager should be happy for him to go anywhere that gives him more opportunity and ultimately extends his AFL career.

From memory the club was happy for Dow to move on last year. But there were no takers so he stayed on our list.

While Dow's had a bit more AFL exposure in 2023 he's largely the same product. I expect a similar level of (non) interest at year end.

The strange part of me is that I think he's miles better than Setterfield and Stocker yet they still both found new clubs.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

Currently from memory we have a first round pick and 2 x 4th rounders. Not too long back some had up to 12 list changes , which included the likes of Martin, cuningham, fogarty and Marchbank. Even Dow and Fisher (who were both gone a week ago) you'd love to keep on the list if we could afford them.

Probably going to have to be some hard decisions made. I'll say one thing. There are not too many lists in the afl that could cope with our current injuries, be able to beat a team 5th on the ladder and still be blooding some really good prospects like Binns, cowan, Lemmey, O'Keeffe and c. Durdin in the reserves.

Potentially four out of five 'ain't' bad.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Potentially four out of five 'ain't' bad.

You've been a long term critic of our drafting and list management.

What do you think of the current state of our list and our depth?

 

[Blue train 28]

Out of contract
David Cunningham - 1 year deal
Caleb March bank - 1 year deal
Ed curnow - retire
Jack silvagni

1

Jack Silvagni

Age

27

Ht

194cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

0.7

4star

D

5.3

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

1.3

1star

M

1.7

2star

T

0.7

1star

G

0.7

4star

D

9.2

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.8

4star

- 2 year deal
Josh Honey - delist
Lachie forgarty - 1 year deal , rookie ?
Lachie plowman_ trade for 3rd round pick
Mitch mclovin 2 year deal - games base incentives.
Paddy Dow

15

Paddy Dow

Age

25

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

7.1

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.9

4star

CL

2.6

4star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

12.4

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

- would like to keep but trade for late 2nd round early 3rd
Sam durdin

38

Sam Durdin

Age

28

Ht

199cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.7

2star

K

6.2

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

11.2

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.6

4star

- rookie
Sam philp

34

Sam Philp

Age

23

Ht

186cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.0

2star

K

4.0

2star

HB

3.0

3star

M

0.5

1star

T

1.5

3star

G

0.5

3star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

0.5

1star

T

1.5

2star

G

0.5

4star

D

7.0

2star

K

4.0

2star

HB

3.0

3star

M

0.5

1star

T

1.5

4star

G

0.5

3star

- delist or rookie .
I think we definitely go back into the draft . But again keep looking at free agents ( Gresham) for the right price. Impact player who adds some more speed and class. New Club might freshen him up and get the best out of him. I would love for us to try and move up the draft order or for this player to slip. In Zane dursma . X factor Fwd/ mid
Super classy. Trade the likes of Dow& fisher . Can we package those picks with our other picks and move up to Gold coasts first round pick . So they have enough points to get their academy kids ?
I’d still look at free agents, draft and a mature age footballer from Wafl, sanfl and VFL

 

[jj1978]

Wonder if SOS would back in one of his picks in LOB and take him off our hands?

 

[F_therest]

Currently from memory we have a first round pick and 2 x 4th rounders. Not too long back some had up to 12 list changes , which included the likes of Martin, cuningham, fogarty and Marchbank. Even Dow and Fisher (who were both gone a week ago) you'd love to keep on the list if we could afford them.

Probably going to have to be some hard decisions made. I'll say one thing. There are not too many lists in the afl that could cope with our current injuries, be able to beat a team 5th on the ladder and still be blooding some really good prospects like Binns, cowan, Lemmey, O'Keeffe and c. Durdin in the reserves.

Yep interesting decisions indeed.

Martin and cunners suddenly getting a long block of games and are vital to the team. Even marchbank back from injury and playing ahead of Young and Durdin.

Fog out of nowhere stringing games together and playing quite well...Durdin could replace him in but handy depth and reliable with his toughness and work ethic which Voss would love.

Dow and Fisher getting coaches votes and playing well vs Saints.

Think JSOS is the most important depth to keep as our tall forwards and rucks are often injured. We have little tall forward depth.

The last few years our mids have been getting injured too with 2 or even 3 at a time...with Ed probably retiring and Carroll seemingly well off the pace now, could we see Dow retained? He might leave for more opportunities.

Binns is developing and we could have someone like Fog or maybe even Cotts be midfield cover if Dow leaves.

Premiership teams need reliable depth but need to balance with the cap. This is where the Williams deal hurts tbh because while a good player, we are paying him midfield wages when he plays half back, he's always injured and cheap guys like Cincotta, Fisher and Boyd are good enough.

The Williams money in hindsight right now would have been put to better use retaining our players. It's a poor investment of $750k - $800k.

 

[koutashoulda1_1]

Seriously overrating Gresham. Best 10 players? The Saints board are screaming for the club to get rid of him. They don't care if they get nothing back.

He has been an inconsistent, flaky player his entire career. He's in really bad form this year but it's not like this is an outlier. He has as many clanger lowlights as he has highlights.

He offers nothing we don't already have. Durdin has had an injury interrupted year but I'm confident he'll be a better player than Gresham.

Don't love the rumoured conditionality of Gresham, but I think youve got to look at upside, particularly with people in his role. All of his energy will go into making things happen versus making sure they dont happen for others. It can have a really bad look on a bad day, and the best of looks on a good day.

I don't think Durdin is a fair comparison. Durdin and Motlop are fighting for a spot, maybe Owies too. Gresham is more of a mid/forward in my mind. That type of player would help solve our cue in the midfield atm while adding a threat up forward.

Ross loves consistency and defense first mindsets that he can cookie cutter into the equation every week. Gresham is an offcut in a Ross Lyon side. If we lose a Dow or a Fisher, can probably roll the dice on him for similar money. It will come down to him accepting less to give Ross the finger imo.

 

[jackn]

Dow & his manager should be happy for him to go anywhere that gives him more opportunity and ultimately extends his AFL career.

From memory the club was happy for Dow to move on last year. But there were no takers so he stayed on our list.

While Dow's had a bit more AFL exposure in 2023 he's largely the same product. I expect a similar level of (non) interest at year end.

The strange part of me is that I think he's miles better than Setterfield and Stocker yet they still both found new clubs.

He was still contacted for this year and by all reports (read bigfooty) on a fairly good wage, compared to his output. Stocker was delisted and Setters uncontracted so essendon able to pay him what they thought he was worth. Dow will absolutely get a go at another team, if he chooses to leave now he too is uncontracted.

 

[gbatman]

It's amazing how quickly things can change. Fisher was out the door a week ago, happy to see him go and now not so much. Proved a lot, still has a lot to prove but if that is a regular thing then perhaps he's great cover for an aging Docherty and Saad. In fact his game was extremely Saad like.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Out of contract
David Cunningham - 1 year deal
Caleb March bank - 1 year deal
Ed curnow - retire
Jack silvagni - 2 year deal
Josh Honey - delist
Lachie forgarty - 1 year deal , rookie ?
Lachie plowman_ trade for 3rd round pick
Mitch mclovin 2 year deal - games base incentives.
Paddy Dow- would like to keep but trade for late 2nd round early 3rd
Sam durdin - rookie
Sam philp - delist or rookie .
I think we definitely go back into the draft . But again keep looking at free agents ( Gresham) for the right price. Impact player who adds some more speed and class. New Club might freshen him up and get the best out of him. I would love for us to try and move up the draft order or for this player to slip. In Zane dursma . X factor Fwd/ mid
Super classy. Trade the likes of Dow& fisher . Can we package those picks with our other picks and move up to Gold coasts first round pick . So they have enough points to get their academy kids ?
I’d still look at free agents, draft and a mature age footballer from Wafl, sanfl and VFL

Dont hate, but have seen enough of Cunners to offer him 2.

 

[juzza316]

Out of contract
David Cunningham - 1 year deal
Caleb March bank - 1 year deal
Ed curnow - retire
Jack silvagni - 2 year deal
Josh Honey - delist
Lachie forgarty - 1 year deal , rookie ?
Lachie plowman_ trade for 3rd round pick
Mitch mclovin 2 year deal - games base incentives.
Paddy Dow- would like to keep but trade for late 2nd round early 3rd
Sam durdin - rookie
Sam philp - delist or rookie .
I think we definitely go back into the draft . But again keep looking at free agents ( Gresham) for the right price. Impact player who adds some more speed and class. New Club might freshen him up and get the best out of him. I would love for us to try and move up the draft order or for this player to slip. In Zane dursma . X factor Fwd/ mid
Super classy. Trade the likes of Dow& fisher . Can we package those picks with our other picks and move up to Gold coasts first round pick . So they have enough points to get their academy kids ?
I’d still look at free agents, draft and a mature age footballer from Wafl, sanfl and VFL

Agree with most of this but in what universe are we getting a third rounder for plowman