List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread - Pt2 Now With Added Wailing & Gnashing of Teeth

[Lore]

Hello Dockers fans!

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Spoiler: 2023 Draft Order

Spoiler: 2024 Draft Order, aka Future Picks

Spoiler: Blue Tick Rumours

 

[blue shark]

I don't think Dew valued wingers..

Same could be said of Will Brodie, an abundance of riches does that.

 

[freo_leo29]

Fair enough - someone kept telling me he needed to nominate for drafts but he doesn’t. He also needs to agree to contract offer under DFA.

An article recently indicted he wanted to return to WA to be with family. My understanding is WCE have zero interest. But in theory yes he could sign with another club on 01-11-2023.

He would have had to nominate for a draft if gc didn't delist him, thankfully gc ended up delisting him

 

[apuchar]

Unless it's an injury that he has carried his whole career then I can't see him getting better



(Wouldn't put it past gc S&C tho)

I don't think he was as bad for us as some people make out.

 

[Docker82]

Josh Corbett injury update

Josh Corbett has been ruled out for the 2024 season with a hip injury

www.fremantlefc.com.au

Corbett lti, will take an ssp player in his spot



Don't know why we are holding kuek if we can't replace him

Rookie listed players can be placed on the LTI and create a spot for a SPP signing.

I don’t think we’ll do that with Kuek but delisting Corbett and placing him on the rookie list is possible. Nothing in that article gives me any indication that option is off the table.

Teams generally delist players they intend to place on the list after the first list lodgement. There’s plenty of time to make that decision if necessary.

 

[Superkoops]

I don't think he was as bad for us as some people make out.

He wasn’t terrible at AFL level and wasn’t great either.

My concerns were what I saw at WAFL. Pretty much non-existent. Had a couple of games where he got on the end of a few goals. But his possession average was low.

From what I had seen at GC (AFL and VFL) he had elite fitness that saw him push up and down the ground but I saw non of that. More camped at FF and barely involved for majority of the game. Obviously hampered by the hip injury that saw him unable to use his fitness capacity.

If the hip injury can be addressed via surgery and get back to his running patterns then he could be worth giving a rookie list for depth. If not then I’m sorry he won’t add any value for mine.

 

[freo_leo29]

Rookie listed players can be placed on the LTI and create a spot for a SPP signing.

I don’t think we’ll do that with Kuek but delisting Corbett and placing him on the rookie list is possible. Nothing in that article gives me any indication that option is off the table.

Teams generally delist players they intend to place on the list after the first list lodgement. There’s plenty of time to make that decision if necessary.

This is what I thought but I've been advised in another thread that this is not the case

Makes sense why Bombers listed Jaiden Davey on the main list last year if rookies cant be put on the lti

 

[malpaso]

He underperformed this year but he's shown he can play at an okay level at Gold Coast.

I think he was hampered as we now know. He didn't look like the player I saw at Gold Coast.

 

[Superkoops]

This is what I thought but I've been advised in another thread that this is not the case

Makes sense why Bombers listed Jaiden Davey on the main list last year if rookies cant be put on the lti

You might be right. If so, makes sense that we keep him on primary list. To me the article from Freo read like they were keeping him on the main list and moving him LTI so that we can add an SSP rookie.

 

[Paracleet]

Rookie listed players can be placed on the LTI and create a spot for a SPP signing.

I don’t think we’ll do that with Kuek but delisting Corbett and placing him on the rookie list is possible. Nothing in that article gives me any indication that option is off the table.

Teams generally delist players they intend to place on the list after the first list lodgement. There’s plenty of time to make that decision if necessary

Go read AFL rule 26. It's primary list only.

 

[Dockeroo]

Where did this talk of a 4 year deal for sharp come from.

Might be mistaken but it’s Jeremy Sharp we are talking about right, not Jeremy Cameron

5

Jeremy Cameron

Age

31

Ht

196cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.5

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.6

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

G

2.0

5star

?

A 4 year contract for a delisted player would have to straight onto the Mt Rushmore of terrible list management calls by the FFC since 1995.
We can’t be that dumb surely?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Go read AFL rule 26. It's primary list only.

For the other nerds

https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/document/2021/04/12/faff1a86-e6a5-4dce-9a05-83460efee899/AFL-Rules-effective-9-April-2021.pdf

 

[freo_leo29]

For the other nerds

https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/document/2021/04/12/faff1a86-e6a5-4dce-9a05-83460efee899/AFL-Rules-effective-9-April-2021.pdf

View attachment 1841015

Boggles the mind why we've kept kuek now tbh

Alot of faith in a skinny athletic tall after a knee


GC delisted Stein after his recent ACL and they will support him through the recovery process, surely we could have arranged that for kuek


Wonder if we could apply for an exemption ssp for him, weird that the rules don't apply for rookies in the first place

 

[Dockeroo]

Boggles the mind why we've kept kuek now tbh

Alot of faith in a skinny athletic tall after a knee


GC delisted Stein after his recent ACL and they will support him through the recovery process, surely we could have arranged that for kuek


Wonder if we could apply for an exemption ssp for him, weird that the rules don't apply for rookies in the first place

Said this months ago.
We have two fringe key forwards that can’t play pretty much all next year. I agree with Snuffaluphagus - look after the guys in rehab obviously as much as it takes, but don’t keep them on the list because we don’t want to be seen as the bad guys delisting injured players. It’s a ruthless business and list turnover is a part of that.

 

[Docker82]

For the other nerds

https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/document/2021/04/12/faff1a86-e6a5-4dce-9a05-83460efee899/AFL-Rules-effective-9-April-2021.pdf

View attachment 1841015

How did Adelaide remove Paul Seedsman from their rookie list and replace him in the SPP last season then? A player they literally drafted in the rookie draft last year.

In the MSD both Jai Culley and Paddy McCartin (both rookies) were replaced because of long term injuries.

I’m not convinced by that wording as there is no mention of replacing players in the SPP or MSD. There’s also at least three examples within the last 12 months of rookie listed players being replaced in the SPP or MSD.

I believe that rule is to do with moving senior listed players to long term injury list during season. This rule would’ve been redundant for many years as rookies have been able to play without being upgraded for ages.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

How did Adelaide remove Paul Seedsman from their rookie list and replace him in the SPP last season then? A player they literally drafted in the rookie draft last year.

In the MSD both Jai Culley and Paddy McCartin (both rookies) were replaced because of long term injuries.

I’m not convinced by that wording as there is no mention of replacing players in the SPP or MSD. There’s also at least three examples within the last 12 months of rookie listed players being replaced in the SPP or MSD.

I believe that rule is to do with moving senior listed players to long term injury list during season. This rule would’ve been redundant for many years as rookies have been able to play without being upgraded for ages.

Yes, I personally think Paracleet is putting far too much faith in the AFL and their ability to maintain a publicly accessible rulebook. I dont know what the correct answer is tbh and wont pretend otherwise unless I see a current (within the week) article on the afl website specifically detailing what you can and cant do.

The AFL is truly an incompetent joke in this stuff

 

[Docker82]

Boggles the mind why we've kept kuek now tbh

Alot of faith in a skinny athletic tall after a knee


GC delisted Stein after his recent ACL and they will support him through the recovery process, surely we could have arranged that for kuek


Wonder if we could apply for an exemption ssp for him, weird that the rules don't apply for rookies in the first place

Adelaide placed Paul Seedsman on the long term injury list last off season and replaced him with a rookie in the SPP.

They delisted and re-rookied him in the 2022/23 off season knowing that he be ruled out for concussion for the whole season.

Despite that document posted I’m still convinced it can be done.

 

[Docker82]

Yes, I personally think Paracleet is putting far too much faith in the AFL and their ability to maintain a publicly accessible rulebook. I dont know what the correct answer is tbh and want pretend otherwise unless I see a current (within the week) article on the afl website specifically detailing what you can and cant do.

The AFL is truly an incompetent joke in this stuff

To me it reads like the old rules that were in place before rookie listed players were eligible to play without being upgraded. That rule could still in place but as all players can play anyway it’d be redundant.

The duration of a player being ineligible for selection (6 weeks) if placed on the LTI list is also suspicious to me. Could you imagine the AFL letting clubs list an extra player in the SPP because they have a player injured for the first six matches? It’d honestly be abused like crazy.

 

[freo_leo29]

Adelaide placed Paul Seedsman on the long term injury list last off season and replaced him with a rookie in the SPP.

They delisted and re-rookied him in the 2022/23 off season knowing that he be ruled out for concussion for the whole season.

Despite that document posted I’m still convinced it can be done.

Maybe they got a concussion exemption?(as his issues have been well documented) or maybe the wording just hadn't been updated properly since the old rookies can't play without an lti rule


i was under the impression we could move kuek to the inactive list but that wording today has thrown me off, are there other examples apart from seedsman? Hopefully there are

 

[freo_leo29]

To me it reads like the old rules that were in place before rookie listed players were eligible to play without being upgraded. That rule could still in place but as all players can play anyway it’d be redundant.

Yeah this my other theory too

What I'm confused about is I can't find a rule for inactive lists, I swear those are a thing now? I know AFLW had them and ive seen them referenced for AFL since but there doesn't seem to be anything in that rules pdf

 

[Paracleet]

Yes, I personally think Paracleet is putting far too much faith in the AFL and their ability to maintain a publicly accessible rulebook. I dont know what the correct answer is tbh and wont pretend otherwise unless I see a current (within the week) article on the afl website specifically detailing what you can and cant do.

The AFL is truly an incompetent joke in this stuff

I'm sure the rules are correct. It's their interpretation in practice that's the issue. After all that document makes no mention of there being three list lodgements, but there are. Apparently.

 

[Docker82]

Maybe they got a concussion exemption?(as his issues have been well documented) or maybe the wording just hadn't been updated properly since the old rookies can't play without an lti rule


i was under the impression we could move kuek to the inactive list but that wording today has thrown me off, are there other examples apart from seedsman? Hopefully there are

West Coast put Jai Culley on the LTI list to take a pick in the MSD. He did an ACL.

The other two examples I found in the last 12 months were Seedsman and P.McCartin - both concussions.

Now I think of it I didn’t even see reference to the existence of the MSD or SPP in that document…

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I'm sure the rules are correct. It's their interpretation in practice that's the issue. After all that document makes no mention of there being three list lodgements, but there are. Apparently.

They are providing examples where it's not the case though, I honestly dont know who is correct but I do know the AFL sucks arse at this stuff

 

[Paracleet]

To me it reads like the old rules that were in place before rookie listed players were eligible to play without being upgraded. That rule could still in place but as all players can play anyway it’d be redundant.

The duration of a player being ineligible for selection (6 weeks) if placed on the LTI list is also suspicious to me. Could you imagine the AFL letting clubs list an extra player in the SPP because they have a player injured for the first six matches? It’d honestly be abused like crazy.

The text is the same in the Feb 2023 revision.

 

[freo_leo29]

West Coast put Jai Culley on the LTI list to take a pick in the MSD. He did an ACL.

The other two examples I found in the last 12 months were Seedsman and P.McCartin - both concussions.

Now I think of it I didn’t even see reference to the existence of the MSD or SPP in that document…

There is a 2023 one too which doesn't change the wording but includes msd



I think the Culley one is enough evidence that once again AFL documents can't be fully trusted

 

[freo_leo29]

The 2023 revision basically says the AFL can make up the rules for ssp and msd however they like


It seems past precedent says they'll allow a rookie to go on the lti for these periods, so I reckon we can cover kuek if we want


Also means we could delist Corbett if we wanted too, would only be necessary if someone is trying to poach sharp as a DFA and he wants a signature by next Wednesday (would also allow him to train with us at the start of preseason)