The Otherworldly Circus - The America Thread

[LittleG]

It would be like the second coming of Adam and Eve. Hellalula dear lord. I wonder if Bont takes a bite of the forbidden fruit this time. Yep I think he might.

We always want that forbidden fruit….

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

I wonder if Trump will change the constitution and stay in power longer than two terms.

 

[BrisDog]

I wonder if Trump will change the constitution and stay in power longer than two terms.

I think the syphilis would have taken care of him by 2028:

 

[Pugz89]

I wonder if Trump will change the constitution and stay in power longer than two terms.

I don't think a president can change the constitution on his own.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

I don't think a president can change the constitution on his own.

If the Republicans have the House and the Senate…which is likely with the unpopularity of Biden…

 

[Charlie Bucket]

If the Republicans have the House and the Senate…which is likely with the unpopularity of Biden…

How on earth is Biden the least popular out of he and Trump? Geez Americans are stupid.

Trump is dumb as shit (and a rapist), but his supporters have to be next level type of dumb, or just bad bad people to believe he’s the better option for President.

 

[Bulldog rick]

They both need to spend the rest of their years in age care. Play crosswords and improve their dementia.

 

[Freshwater]

How on earth is Biden the least popular out of he and Trump? Geez Americans are stupid.

Trump is dumb as s**t (and a rapist), but his supporters have to be next level type of dumb, or just bad bad people to believe he’s the better option for President.

Trump is probably those things and more? But there is just such distrust in the political class in the last 30 odd years that they see him as an outsider. Americas greatest problem at the moment seems to be their non existent southern border. Even if Trump does nothing there, and we all know he didn’t build the wall he promised, but even rhetoric is better than denial of the issue. You don’t have a nation if there is no border. And American don’t want to be swallowed up into a great big global one world nation, not should they. Trump won’t get them there, but he might stop the rot???

 

[BrisDog]

Trump is probably those things and more? But there is just such distrust in the political class in the last 30 odd years that they see him as an outsider. Americas greatest problem at the moment seems to be their non existent southern border. Even if Trump does nothing there, and we all know he didn’t build the wall he promised, but even rhetoric is better than denial of the issue. You don’t have a nation if there is no border. And American don’t want to be swallowed up into a great big global one world nation, not should they. Trump won’t get them there, but he might stop the rot???

G’day Freshwater, re the above have a read about Trump influencing the Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson to torpedo Biden’s bipartisan bill to tighten up the southern border last Friday.

Biden Vows Border Shutdown, Pressing Congress to Pass Immigration Deal

The president’s statement came as the Republican speaker of the House pronounced the emerging bipartisan immigration deal “dead on arrival” in his chamber.

www.nytimes.com

Citizen Trump quite clearly doesn’t care about the southern border reality and only cares about the issue when he can benefit from it politically.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Trump is probably those things and more? But there is just such distrust in the political class in the last 30 odd years that they see him as an outsider. Americas greatest problem at the moment seems to be their non existent southern border. Even if Trump does nothing there, and we all know he didn’t build the wall he promised, but even rhetoric is better than denial of the issue. You don’t have a nation if there is no border. And American don’t want to be swallowed up into a great big global one world nation, not should they. Trump won’t get them there, but he might stop the rot???

How is rhetoric any better than denial?

They are two sides of the same useless coin.

Ive got news for you. The United States is still the worlds dominant social, political, economical and military influence on the planet. The likelihood of them being " swallowed up into a great big global one world nation" whatever that means is a nonsense.

Their problems at the southern border are entirely of their own making. Historical US foreign policy based upon economic exploitation of its southern neighbours and its gorilla like domination of the affairs of Central and South American countries is the reason that many of those countries are at best corrupt to the core or at worst on the precipice of being failed narco states.

With their meddling and insatiable appetite for narcotics. It's little wonder that so many people are fleeing the instability of these countries (and others from outside of their hemisphere) and flooding the southern border given the United States has always sold itself on the myth of American exceptionalism, where all you need to do is work hard and you can make it. It must be an alluring prize for anybody from one of these states where institutional corruption, poverty and extreme narco violence is an everyday way of life.

Anybody who has ever spent any time there understands the American dream to be little more than an illusion that draws desperate people to the states like a moth to a RW&B star spangled flame. Most of these people will go from being exploited in their country of origin to being exploited in the so called land of the free.

Trumps idiotic border wall theatrics aside. The chickens are coming home to roost and there is nothing they can do about, short of the Texas NG or militia groups shooting people as they cross the Rio Grande.

 

[jaxie1]

Trump is probably those things and more? But there is just such distrust in the political class in the last 30 odd years that they see him as an outsider. Americas greatest problem at the moment seems to be their non existent southern border. Even if Trump does nothing there, and we all know he didn’t build the wall he promised, but even rhetoric is better than denial of the issue. You don’t have a nation if there is no border. And American don’t want to be swallowed up into a great big global one world nation, not should they. Trump won’t get them there, but he might stop the rot???

He will be the rot

 

[Pugz89]

If the Republicans have the House and the Senate…which is likely with the unpopularity of Biden…

He's had the house and senate before. He didn't do anything like that during his half term with a monopoly of power, doubt its even on his radar at this point. Plus it also needs to be voted on by states as well I believe.

 

[jaxie1]

How is rhetoric any better than denial?

They are two sides of the same useless coin.

Ive got news for you. The United States is still the worlds dominant social, political, economical and military influence on the planet. The likelihood of them being " swallowed up into a great big global one world nation" whatever that means is a nonsense.

Their problems at the southern border are entirely of their own making. Historical US foreign policy based upon economic exploitation of its southern neighbours and its gorilla like domination of the affairs of Central and South American countries is the reason that many of those countries are at best corrupt to the core or at worst on the precipice of being failed narco states.

With their meddling and insatiable appetite for narcotics. It's little wonder that so many people are fleeing the instability of these countries (and others from outside of their hemisphere) and flooding the southern border given the United States has always sold itself on the myth of American exceptionalism, where all you need to do is work hard and you can make it. It must be an alluring prize for anybody from one of these states where institutional corruption, poverty and extreme narco violence is an everyday way of life.

Anybody who has ever spent any time there understands the American dream to be little more than an illusion that draws desperate people to the states like a moth to a RW&B star spangled flame. Most of these people will go from being exploited in their country of origin to being exploited in the so called land of the free.

Trumps idiotic border wall theatrics aside. The chickens are coming home to roost and there is nothing they can do about, short of the Texas NG or militia groups shooting people as they cross the Rio Grande.

Well said and a tip of the iceberg

 

[Freshwater]

How is rhetoric any better than denial?

They are two sides of the same useless coin.

Ive got news for you. The United States is still the worlds dominant social, political, economical and military influence on the planet. The likelihood of them being " swallowed up into a great big global one world nation" whatever that means is a nonsense.

Their problems at the southern border are entirely of their own making. Historical US foreign policy based upon economic exploitation of its southern neighbours and its gorilla like domination of the affairs of Central and South American countries is the reason that many of those countries are at best corrupt to the core or at worst on the precipice of being failed narco states.

With their meddling and insatiable appetite for narcotics. It's little wonder that so many people are fleeing the instability of these countries (and others from outside of their hemisphere) and flooding the southern border given the United States has always sold itself on the myth of American exceptionalism, where all you need to do is work hard and you can make it. It must be an alluring prize for anybody from one of these states where institutional corruption, poverty and extreme narco violence is an everyday way of life.

Anybody who has ever spent any time there understands the American dream to be little more than an illusion that draws desperate people to the states like a moth to a RW&B star spangled flame. Most of these people will go from being exploited in their country of origin to being exploited in the so called land of the free.

Trumps idiotic border wall theatrics aside. The chickens are coming home to roost and there is nothing they can do about, short of the Texas NG or militia groups shooting people as they cross the Rio Grande.

I wasn’t praising him at all, they will vote on the rhetoric, which I suppose means he at least acknowledges the problem. Denial is just nonsense really. But to me they are as incompetent as each other and actually create the equal and opposite reactions in their hyper partisan supporters.

 

[Freshwater]

A very interesting analysis someone has done on all the US presidents. It was tried to be done ‘scientifically’ from how they performed rather than how they said they would.
Personally I always prefer the presidents and ideas towards the bottom of this chart, regardless of left or right.

 

[dogwatch]

How on earth is Biden the least popular out of he and Trump? Geez Americans are stupid.

Trump is dumb as s**t (and a rapist), but his supporters have to be next level type of dumb, or just bad bad people to believe he’s the better option for President.

There's a saying that the people get the government they deserve, which in plausible democracies is probably a fair call.

So the USA generally gets what the people vote for (give or take a few errant chads). Despite the many, many smart and caring people in the USA there is still a majority of dumbf**ks who go out and vote.

That would be OK if it stopped there. The problem is that the USA is so influential, powerful and meddlesome (as Norm points out) that the rest of the world has to put up with that president too. And in many cases he is just a front for a lot of rather unpleasant types who are the real drivers of the political agenda, as happened under George W Bush.

Regardless of our historical obsequiousness, what have WE done to deserve whoever they happen to choose as president?

 

[Freshwater]

There's a saying that the people get the government they deserve, which in plausible democracies is probably a fair call.

So the USA generally gets what the people vote for (give or take a few errant chads). Despite the many, many smart and caring people in the USA there is still a majority of dumbf**ks who go out and vote.

That would be OK if it stopped there. The problem is that the USA is so influential, powerful and meddlesome (as Norm points out) that the rest of the world has to put up with that president too. And in many cases he is just a front for a lot of rather unpleasant types who are the real drivers of the political agenda, as happened under George W Bush.

Regardless of our historical obsequiousness, what have WE done to deserve whoever they happen to choose as president?

It’s too easy to say America is full of dumbf&@ks so this what we get. With that logic America has 330,000,000 dumbf&@ks because they haven’t really had a good president since Kennedy.
But still they are the scientific, economic and cultural leaders in so many, not all, areas of world affairs. Not because of force, but because of their inventions, ideas, dynamism, enthusiasm. They are the worlds ‘cool kids’ and whether we like it or not the world looks to them, and will continue to do so for a long time to come.
Their constitution is amazing but can never be ‘perfect’ because legalistic types can weasel around a words and radicals at the extreme fringes undermine so much of their heritage. In Australia we often forget that their President isn’t from their parliament (congress) but is a separate branch (executive) different to what we have here, so their power is diffused. Only those areas set out in the constitution are for the General (Federal) government, so States, which are mini republic’s themselves, have, and should have, most of the power.
Again it is too easy for Australians to say America is full of dumbf&@ks because we don’t live in a country where ‘ordered liberty’ is their primary goal for living freely. There constitution enshrines such freedoms Australians often can’t comprehend. Australian’s are not quite mature enough to be free? We often look to governments to solve our problems. Look how Sweden went in COVID? No lockdowns, better health outcomes, and not the inflationary pressures afterwards. America is a difficult concept for Australian’s who look to government for answers.
They have had two impossibly bad presidents recently and with Hillary another drongo was very close. But because of their limitations on power they can only do so much damage before they are moved onto the next drongo. But their power is limited.
I’d actually vote for someone that reduced or even got out of NATO, trying to annexe Ukraine was a massive mistake. I’d even walk away totally from the Middle East, and have ZERO influence and money etc from Jewish or Muslim communities. I would only go to war if this current generation paid for it, not send it to future generations. Which really means no wars. The libertarian option allows this often.

 

[dogwatch]

It’s too easy to say America is full of dumbf&@ks so this what we get. With that logic America has 330,000,000 dumbf&@ks because they haven’t really had a good president since Kennedy.
But still they are the scientific, economic and cultural leaders in so many, not all, areas of world affairs. Not because of force, but because of their inventions, ideas, dynamism, enthusiasm. They are the worlds ‘cool kids’ and whether we like it or not the world looks to them, and will continue to do so for a long time to come.
Their constitution is amazing but can never be ‘perfect’ because legalistic types can weasel around a words and radicals at the extreme fringes undermine so much of their heritage. In Australia we often forget that their President isn’t from their parliament (congress) but is a separate branch (executive) different to what we have here, so their power is diffused. Only those areas set out in the constitution are for the General (Federal) government, so States, which are mini republic’s themselves, have, and should have, most of the power.
Again it is too easy for Australians to say America is full of dumbf&@ks because we don’t live in a country where ‘ordered liberty’ is their primary goal for living freely. There constitution enshrines such freedoms Australians often can’t comprehend. Australian’s are not quite mature enough to be free? We often look to governments to solve our problems. Look how Sweden went in COVID? No lockdowns, better health outcomes, and not the inflationary pressures afterwards. America is a difficult concept for Australian’s who look to government for answers.
They have had two impossibly bad presidents recently and with Hillary another drongo was very close. But because of their limitations on power they can only do so much damage before they are moved onto the next drongo. But their power is limited.
I’d actually vote for someone that reduced or even got out of NATO, trying to annexe Ukraine was a massive mistake. I’d even walk away totally from the Middle East, and have ZERO influence and money etc from Jewish or Muslim communities. I would only go to war if this current generation paid for it, not send it to future generations. Which really means no wars. The libertarian option allows this often.

No I didn't say the USA is fill of dumbf**ks. Just that a lot of them vote. We have them here too and they have a bearing on results in much the same way. In their eyes we are probably the dumbf**ks. That's the tease of democracy for you.

I also understand the USA a little better than you might think. I have lived there among people who are variously creative, visionary, charming ... and scary. It has the best and the worst of so many things. It does some stuff really well. And some stuff really badly.

My point is more that whatever you think of their democratic system, the influence and outcomes of the US electoral process is felt disproportionately all around the world. We can only look on in helpless anguish.

 

[geoffjennings79]

To paraphrase John Kennedy snr:
"I keep trying to avoid posting in this thread, but today I will absolutely avoid posting in this thread..." ☹

 

[Freshwater]

No I didn't say the USA is fill of dumbf**ks. Just that a lot of them vote. We have them here too and they have a bearing on results in much the same way. In their eyes we are probably the dumbf**ks. That's the tease of democracy for you.

I also understand the USA a little better than you might think. I have lived there among people who are variously creative, visionary, charming ... and scary. It has the best and the worst of so many things. It does some stuff really well. And some stuff really badly.

My point is more that whatever you think of their democratic system, the influence and outcomes of the US electoral process is felt disproportionately all around the world. We can only look on in helpless anguish.

We’ve also got to watch the arrogance of saying they are not all dumbf$&ks, just the ones that don’t vote like me. In their last few elections the people have had a terrible choice to make between two terrible candidates. And to even say one is better than the other is not so clear because the side that often states they’re the most ‘compassionate’ socially is also the most ‘hawkish’ on the global scene, etc etc.
That same logic was applied to the recent referendum in Australia where one side accused the other of motives that weren’t even there because of the way they voted. I reckon 95%+ of people vote with their conscience for the best outcome for their country. People just see the world differently, so assigning sinister motives doesn’t help debates or discussions.

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

The US have low unemployment, 2% inflation and hi GDP.

Could Biden have done any better than he has ?

 

[Arkangel]

Look how Sweden went in COVID? No lockdowns, better health outcomes, and not the inflationary pressures afterwards.

I know this is not your main point here, but it's factually wrong on both counts. Here's a chart (source) of inflation in Sweden compared to Australia (I've also included Norway and New Zealand as neighbours to both countries):



As you can see, inflation is highest in Sweden (though the differences seem trivial to me).

Here's a chart showing excess mortality across the same four countries from 2020 onward:



As you can see, the values overlap a lot, with the exception of the two massive spikes at the beginning of the series where Sweden showed a massive number of excess deaths that the other countries didn't. (Unfortunately I couldn't figure out how to get it to smooth the curves.)

 

[H Dolphin]

He's had the house and senate before. He didn't do anything like that during his half term with a monopoly of power, doubt its even on his radar at this point. Plus it also needs to be voted on by states as well I believe.

3/4 of the states have to vote yes. Only 22 are red.

 

[Next Waiting]

No I didn't say the USA is fill of dumbf**ks. Just that a lot of them vote. We have them here too and they have a bearing on results in much the same way. In their eyes we are probably the dumbf**ks. That's the tease of democracy for you.

I also understand the USA a little better than you might think. I have lived there among people who are variously creative, visionary, charming ... and scary. It has the best and the worst of so many things. It does some stuff really well. And some stuff really badly.

My point is more that whatever you think of their democratic system, the influence and outcomes of the US electoral process is felt disproportionately all around the world. We can only look on in helpless anguish.

The electoral college. What a crock of sh1t in modern America. It seems utterly disproportionate.

Seems to me from afar, that the way their system has been set up/evolved, it is completely vulnerable to money, corruption and Machiavellian intrigue. A democracy in name only.

 

[dogwatch]

The electoral college. What a crock of sh1t in modern America. It seems utterly disproportionate.

Seems to me from afar, that the way their system has been set up/evolved, it is completely vulnerable to money, corruption and Machiavellian intrigue. A democracy in name only.

Probably a fair call ... yet they do have some protections in place that we don't.

Our problem is that money, corruption and Machiavellian intrigue infect our own brand of democracy almost as much. It's such a part of our system that we assume "that's just the way things are" and assume we have close to a model democracy. We haven't.

But anyway, nobody outside Australia cares much about that, while billions around the world care about and are affected by the US elections.