The Otherworldly Circus - The America Thread

[Next Waiting]

Exactly. China is already poised to invade us should Trump win. If we are invaded by China there will be no more footy or Western Bulldogs.

Tik Tok will be more palatable to the authorities though thus ensuring its continuance as an avenue of individual expression

 

[BrisDog]

The economy was going along nicely and the border was way better than it is now. He is not normal but not a monster.

Hi Fresh, I’m trying to work out your logic.

1. What do you think about Trump ordering House speaker Mike Johnson to deny the demographic bill that provided enough funding to accomplish all of the Republican requests in regards to the southern border immigration issue?

2. If ‘the border was better (under Trump) than it is now’, one would think Trump would be for the draconian measures the Democrats included in the bill to appease the far right of the Republican Party. Why is Trump against the bill?

3. Do you think that the same bill, inclusive of significant funding to Ukraine to defend its border against Russia, is not favoured by Trump because he is an ally to Russia and admires Vladimir Putin?

3. Do you like Joe Rogan? Do you like Jordan Peterson? Do you listen to Patrick Bet-David? How about Tucker Carlson? What did you think of his recent interview with Putin?

It appears you are a contrarian and your answers/posts (which I enjoy) often dodge direct questions like the ones above and turn into a rambling kumbaya where you don’t commit to Trump but in reality it appears you are quite attached to the man.

Have a crack at answering the above questions directly if you have time. Thanks. Brisdog.

 

[Freshwater]

Hi Fresh, I’m trying to work out your logic.

1. What do you think about Trump ordering House speaker Mike Johnson to deny the demographic bill that provided enough funding to accomplish all of the Republican requests in regards to the southern border immigration issue?

2. If ‘the border was better (under Trump) than it is now’, one would think Trump would be for the draconian measures the Democrats included in the bill to appease the far right of the Republican Party. Why is Trump against the bill?

3. Do you think that the same bill, inclusive of significant funding to Ukraine to defend its border against Russia, is not favoured by Trump because he is an ally to Russia and admires Vladimir Putin?

3. Do you like Joe Rogan? Do you like Jordan Peterson? Do you listen to Patrick Bet-David? How about Tucker Carlson? What did you think of his recent interview with Putin?

It appears you are a contrarian and your answers/posts (which I enjoy) often dodge direct questions like the ones above and turn into a rambling kumbaya where you don’t commit to Trump but in reality it appears you are quite attached to the man.

Have a crack at answering the above questions directly if you have time. Thanks. Brisdog.

Hi Fresh, I’m trying to work out your logic.

1. What do you think about Trump ordering House speaker Mike Johnson to deny the demographic bill that provided enough funding to accomplish all of the Republican requests in regards to the southern border immigration issue?

2. If ‘the border was better (under Trump) than it is now’, one would think Trump would be for the draconian measures the Democrats included in the bill to appease the far right of the Republican Party. Why is Trump against the bill?

3. Do you think that the same bill, inclusive of significant funding to Ukraine to defend its border against Russia, is not favoured by Trump because he is an ally to Russia and admires Vladimir Putin?

3. Do you like Joe Rogan? Do you like Jordan Peterson? Do you listen to Patrick Bet-David? How about Tucker Carlson? What did you think of his recent interview with Putin?

It appears you are a contrarian and your answers/posts (which I enjoy) often dodge direct questions like the ones above and turn into a rambling kumbaya where you don’t commit to Trump but in reality it appears you are quite attached to the man.

Have a crack at answering the above questions directly if you have time. Thanks. Brisdog.

As I’ve mentioned from my very first post on this thread I’ve tried to put forth why people will vote for Trump, not necessarily who I’d vote for.
I’m no scholar but like to think I keep abreast of ideas. Since my early 20’s I’ve been fascinated with American history and have read countless books on their history. As well as dozens of biographies on Franklin, Jefferson Lincoln and MLK, my favourites.
Ordered liberty is their reason for existing, articulated by those giants I mentioned. Whether people love this idea or not, these ideas gave us the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Three amazing documents and the ideas they convey can never be superseded because they protect basic human rights, so far ahead of any other country. But they can be twisted by bureaucracies and lawyers and politicians without vision, and a population without morals as John Adam’s warned.
I remember my first post in this thread was a chart of every single president in their history and where they fit in relation to authoritarian/libertarian and left/right matrix. I mentioned my preference was for the libertarians, and Trump was very high on the authoritarians, this must show I’m no fan of his. I’ve mentioned today why I think America is losing is going down some dangerous paths and some think that Trump is somehow the person who might stop the madness (identity politics chief among them).
As for who I listen to. Raf Epstein (ABC Melbourne) in the morning, even got on air just last week with some questions.
I do occasionally listen to Joe Rogan, when he has guest I find interesting. Bret Weinstein recently was a fascinating 3 and half hours. I so highly value freedom of speech as the most important right, that all the others flow from, so I love that he allows his audience to form their own views with long interviews.
I have never heard of one of those guys you mentioned. I know who Tucker is, but never heard him. I’m no Fox News type, no LNP supporter either, no Tory, the Thomas Jefferson in me would never allow that.
As for Jordan Peterson, I really admire him and have learnt much from his work. I never fail to learn something from his lectures and books. One of his main points is to live with purpose and responsibility. His psychological insights are helpful. This is refreshing for a lot of younger folk, and have seen my nephew straighten out his life learning from Peterson. If this is ‘right wing’ to some people, that doesn’t really bother me or the people he’s helping. Jordan is also a massive advocate for freedom of speech, he believes we can’t learn if we can’t be wrong on the way to be more and more correct as we humble ourselves to be wrong, and take another step towards being hopefully more correct each time. He is incredibly courageous in the face of opposition from those that either don’t like him or understand him. Anyway I make no apology for learning from him.
Hope this helps Bris, read every one of my posts on here, there is no harsh talk, put downs, bad forum behaviour etc. I reckon I sometimes get harshly dealt with here, I hopefully always post with honesty and surely different views are adding to the debate?

 

[geoffjennings79]

As I’ve mentioned from my very first post on this thread I’ve tried to put forth why people will vote for Trump, not necessarily who I’d vote for.
I’m no scholar but like to think I keep abreast of ideas. Since my early 20’s I’ve been fascinated with American history and have read countless books on their history. As well as dozens of biographies on Franklin, Jefferson Lincoln and MLK, my favourites.
Ordered liberty is their reason for existing, articulated by those giants I mentioned. Whether people love this idea or not, these ideas gave us the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Three amazing documents and the ideas they convey can never be superseded because they protect basic human rights, so far ahead of any other country. But they can be twisted by bureaucracies and lawyers and politicians without vision, and a population without morals as John Adam’s warned.
I remember my first post in this thread was a chart of every single president in their history and where they fit in relation to authoritarian/libertarian and left/right matrix. I mentioned my preference was for the libertarians, and Trump was very high on the authoritarians, this must show I’m no fan of his. I’ve mentioned today why I think America is losing is going down some dangerous paths and some think that Trump is somehow the person who might stop the madness (identity politics chief among them).
As for who I listen to. Raf Epstein (ABC Melbourne) in the morning, even got on air just last week with some questions.
I do occasionally listen to Joe Rogan, when he has guest I find interesting. Bret Weinstein recently was a fascinating 3 and half hours. I so highly value freedom of speech as the most important right, that all the others flow from, so I love that he allows his audience to form their own views with long interviews.
I have never heard of one of those guys you mentioned. I know who Tucker is, but never heard him. I’m no Fox News type, no LNP supporter either, no Tory, the Thomas Jefferson in me would never allow that.
As for Jordan Peterson, I really admire him and have learnt much from his work. I never fail to learn something from his lectures and books. One of his main points is to live with purpose and responsibility. His psychological insights are helpful. This is refreshing for a lot of younger folk, and have seen my nephew straighten out his life learning from Peterson. If this is ‘right wing’ to some people, that doesn’t really bother me or the people he’s helping. Jordan is also a massive advocate for freedom of speech, he believes we can’t learn if we can’t be wrong on the way to be more and more correct as we humble ourselves to be wrong, and take another step towards being hopefully more correct each time. He is incredibly courageous in the face of opposition from those that either don’t like him or understand him. Anyway I make no apology for learning from him.
Hope this helps Bris, read every one of my posts on here, there is no harsh talk, put downs, bad forum behaviour etc. I reckon I sometimes get harshly dealt with here, I hopefully always post with honesty and surely different views are adding to the debate?

I'm not trying to.put you down, but you explicitly said "Americans voted for Obama then turned around and voted for Trump".

That's not a different view.

That is just incorrect.

 

[Arkangel]

Freshwater, I always appreciate that you're willing to explain yourself, even if I frequently disagree with what you say.

 

[BrisDog]

As I’ve mentioned from my very first post on this thread I’ve tried to put forth why people will vote for Trump, not necessarily who I’d vote for.
I’m no scholar but like to think I keep abreast of ideas. Since my early 20’s I’ve been fascinated with American history and have read countless books on their history. As well as dozens of biographies on Franklin, Jefferson Lincoln and MLK, my favourites.
Ordered liberty is their reason for existing, articulated by those giants I mentioned. Whether people love this idea or not, these ideas gave us the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Three amazing documents and the ideas they convey can never be superseded because they protect basic human rights, so far ahead of any other country. But they can be twisted by bureaucracies and lawyers and politicians without vision, and a population without morals as John Adam’s warned.
I remember my first post in this thread was a chart of every single president in their history and where they fit in relation to authoritarian/libertarian and left/right matrix. I mentioned my preference was for the libertarians, and Trump was very high on the authoritarians, this must show I’m no fan of his. I’ve mentioned today why I think America is losing is going down some dangerous paths and some think that Trump is somehow the person who might stop the madness (identity politics chief among them).
As for who I listen to. Raf Epstein (ABC Melbourne) in the morning, even got on air just last week with some questions.
I do occasionally listen to Joe Rogan, when he has guest I find interesting. Bret Weinstein recently was a fascinating 3 and half hours. I so highly value freedom of speech as the most important right, that all the others flow from, so I love that he allows his audience to form their own views with long interviews.
I have never heard of one of those guys you mentioned. I know who Tucker is, but never heard him. I’m no Fox News type, no LNP supporter either, no Tory, the Thomas Jefferson in me would never allow that.
As for Jordan Peterson, I really admire him and have learnt much from his work. I never fail to learn something from his lectures and books. One of his main points is to live with purpose and responsibility. His psychological insights are helpful. This is refreshing for a lot of younger folk, and have seen my nephew straighten out his life learning from Peterson. If this is ‘right wing’ to some people, that doesn’t really bother me or the people he’s helping. Jordan is also a massive advocate for freedom of speech, he believes we can’t learn if we can’t be wrong on the way to be more and more correct as we humble ourselves to be wrong, and take another step towards being hopefully more correct each time. He is incredibly courageous in the face of opposition from those that either don’t like him or understand him. Anyway I make no apology for learning from him.
Hope this helps Bris, read every one of my posts on here, there is no harsh talk, put downs, bad forum behaviour etc. I reckon I sometimes get harshly dealt with here, I hopefully always post with honesty and surely different views are adding to the debate?

The tone of your posts are always fine Fresh, I just can’t relate to some of your logic re American politics, particularly Trump. I f*cking hate him and hope he chokes to death on a hamburger. Nothing personal to you. Play on. Keep posting.

 

[bobs head soup]

The ‘Western Bulldog’ will become a feature on Chinese restaurant menus all around our previously thriving, democratic country - with black bean sauce.

Succulent

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Ta ta, farewell!

 

[yebach]

The problem in my opinion ( that nobody cares about) is that the American political system, much like our own, is corrupted to the point that it mostly attracts narcissists who are only in it for themselves and not for the people they claim to serve.

As to who is the best candidate? The real question is, who is the lesser evil?

IMO Political donations should be outlawed in every democracy. This would help alleviate some of the corruption.

As for the international conversations. I'm old and if you look closely at history. This play has been performed many times before. They just keep changing the background scenery and the actors. War is never a good idea. Especially if you're fighting and dying for someone else's power and wealth.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[glenashley]

As I’ve mentioned from my very first post on this thread I’ve tried to put forth why people will vote for Trump, not necessarily who I’d vote for.
I’m no scholar but like to think I keep abreast of ideas. Since my early 20’s I’ve been fascinated with American history and have read countless books on their history. As well as dozens of biographies on Franklin, Jefferson Lincoln and MLK, my favourites.
Ordered liberty is their reason for existing, articulated by those giants I mentioned. Whether people love this idea or not, these ideas gave us the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Three amazing documents and the ideas they convey can never be superseded because they protect basic human rights, so far ahead of any other country. But they can be twisted by bureaucracies and lawyers and politicians without vision, and a population without morals as John Adam’s warned.
I remember my first post in this thread was a chart of every single president in their history and where they fit in relation to authoritarian/libertarian and left/right matrix. I mentioned my preference was for the libertarians, and Trump was very high on the authoritarians, this must show I’m no fan of his. I’ve mentioned today why I think America is losing is going down some dangerous paths and some think that Trump is somehow the person who might stop the madness (identity politics chief among them).
As for who I listen to. Raf Epstein (ABC Melbourne) in the morning, even got on air just last week with some questions.
I do occasionally listen to Joe Rogan, when he has guest I find interesting. Bret Weinstein recently was a fascinating 3 and half hours. I so highly value freedom of speech as the most important right, that all the others flow from, so I love that he allows his audience to form their own views with long interviews.
I have never heard of one of those guys you mentioned. I know who Tucker is, but never heard him. I’m no Fox News type, no LNP supporter either, no Tory, the Thomas Jefferson in me would never allow that.
As for Jordan Peterson, I really admire him and have learnt much from his work. I never fail to learn something from his lectures and books. One of his main points is to live with purpose and responsibility. His psychological insights are helpful. This is refreshing for a lot of younger folk, and have seen my nephew straighten out his life learning from Peterson. If this is ‘right wing’ to some people, that doesn’t really bother me or the people he’s helping. Jordan is also a massive advocate for freedom of speech, he believes we can’t learn if we can’t be wrong on the way to be more and more correct as we humble ourselves to be wrong, and take another step towards being hopefully more correct each time. He is incredibly courageous in the face of opposition from those that either don’t like him or understand him. Anyway I make no apology for learning from him.
Hope this helps Bris, read every one of my posts on here, there is no harsh talk, put downs, bad forum behaviour etc. I reckon I sometimes get harshly dealt with here, I hopefully always post with honesty and surely different views are adding to the debate?

I don't know why you bother Fresh?

The people accusing you of right wing talking points are parroting left wing ones.

Now as a pathetic house cat libertarian (not unlike a champagne socialist), I'm going to read my latest property tax bill and work out how much extra my tenants will pay in rent.

PS. Got Joe Biden at 20/1 last election when he was getting hammered in the primaries. Do yourself a favour and get on Michelle Obama or Gavin Newsom. No way anyone's letting Trump or Biden win the next election.

 

[perro_loco]

The US have low unemployment, 2% inflation and hi GDP.

Could Biden have done any better than he has ?

Biden is a useless old war mongering man. Very corrupt and will not win the election if he makes it that far. Trump is a chaos bomb. In conclusion the US is in decline to be polite. In actual fact it is fu@@ed!

PS. GO DOGS!!!

 

[BrisDog]

I don't know why you bother Fresh?

The people accusing you of right wing talking points are parroting left wing ones.

Now as a pathetic house cat libertarian (not unlike a champagne socialist), I'm going to read my latest property tax bill and work out how much extra my tenants will pay in rent.

PS. Got Joe Biden at 20/1 last election when he was getting hammered in the primaries. Do yourself a favour and get on Michelle Obama or Gavin Newsom. No way anyone's letting Trump or Biden win the next election.

Newsom is an impressive speaker and looks the goods, I would like to see him on the ballot. Chris Christie or Adam Kinzinger would be good republican candidates. They are all moderates. I’m not agreeing on your conspiracy though!

 

[Next Waiting]

The tone of your posts are always fine Fresh, I just can’t relate to some of your logic re American politics, particularly Trump. I f*cking hate him and hope he chokes to death on a hamburger. Nothing personal to you. Play on. Keep posting.

That's quite fun to think about. What would be a fitting way for Trump to leave this earth?

The discovery of him in a closet after a bout of autoerotic asphyxiation has gone wrong would be suitably humiliating. I'd like a bit more irony though but can't think of anything at the moment. Any suggestions? Perhaps we could create a poll.

 

[Mofra]

Parkland survivor trolls Trump’s new sneaker venture

Ex-president launched new shoe brand after he was ordered to pay $450m in two legal cases

www.independent.co.uk

I chuckled

 

[dogwatch]

What would be a fitting way for Trump to leave this earth?

 

[Next Waiting]

View attachment 1909745

Those years at art school have really paid off

 

[dogwatch]

Those years at art school have really paid off

Thanks NW, but I'm really not that talented. I confess I found that gem on the web.

 

[Next Waiting]

Thanks NW, but I'm really not that talented. I confess I found that gem on the web.

Slightly random and off topic but you have a good memory and have been around these parts longer than we both care to remember

Every now and then I think of the funniest things I've seen on this site and I always coma back to a picture a poster had made as a proposition for the new WB logo. It must be 10 years ago.

Occasionally I do a search hoping to remember the poster or the tread it could be in. Alas, I've failed every time.

Do you or any other poster recall? I'd like to see it again. For ol' times sake.

 

[SPower]

Maybe by , was it "Dogonthemoon"

 

[Next Waiting]

Maybe by , was it "Dogonthemoon"

No, I can be pretty sure it wasn't. It was like a grade prep drawing with arrows indicating why things had been put where they were. It was hilarious and received many likes

 

[dogwatch]

No, I can be pretty sure it wasn't. It was like a grade prep drawing with arrows indicating why things had been put where they were. It was hilarious and received many likes

Ah yes, vague memories of that. No idea who the inspired genius was though.

Could I just say it was ... err ... "our friend from down under"?

 

[Norm De Guerre]

I’ve hardly posted on this thread. I wonder why anyone with a different opinion would want to?

Ok, If Ive conflated your ideas with another poster who has a similar ideology to the ones you've espoused across 14 posts in here then you then you have my apologies.

Here's the things about discussion forums. If you post then you can expect to have your opinions challenged.

As much as we clearly disagree on most things. I appreciate your willingness to keep coming back in here.

because I have not in any way wanted to cause much angst on here.

No angst here. Im quite relaxed.

But maybe because I actually spend time with people who are Australian and who love Trump than others who actually hate him (two of them are brothers and complete opposite views on him, both Bulldogs fans interestingly). I hear their arguments.

As do do I. I can't speak to Trumps appeal with your acquaintances. But I certainly can with mine.

I don’t like him at all.

Then you're doing a terrible job of articulating it.

But I hate the identity politics agenda probably worse so I would be majorly conflicted if I had to vote there. I am trying to convey to this thread why people do actually like what they think he can do.

What is it about "identity politics" that bothers you so much and how has it effected your life?

They look past his character flaws to what they think is bigger picture issues that they think he can help with.

What are the "bigger picture issues" that he addressed in his first term?

I am trying to articulate why an American public who voted a black man to president, twice, then turned around and voted for Trump. It’s not because they’re stupid or immoral, they want the same things everyone wants. They think that this might help.

Oh, boy. You're so close to getting it and saying the quiet part of Trumps appeal out loud.

 

[yebach]

Ok, If Ive conflated your ideas with another poster who has a similar ideology to the ones you've espoused across 14 posts in here then you then you have my apologies.

Here's the things about discussion forums. If you post then you can expect to have your opinions challenged.

As much as we clearly disagree on most things. I appreciate your willingness to keep coming back in here.


No angst here. Im quite relaxed.


As do do I. I can't speak to Trumps appeal with your acquaintances. But I certainly can with mine.


Then you're doing a terrible job of articulating it.


What is it about "identity politics" that bothers you so much and how has it effected your life?


What are the "bigger picture issues" that he addressed in his first term?




Oh, boy. You're so close to getting it and saying the quiet part of Trumps appeal out loud.

You do realise Trump made America great again?

 

[Next Waiting]

As do do I. I can't speak to Trumps appeal with your acquaintances. But I certainly can with mine.

It was all going swimmingly

 

[King Harold]

Involved in 4000 litigations since the 70’s. and growing! ——- Four Thousand !!!!
Yeah this is the bloke that should be leading the free world.

But Biden is just as bad