Autopsy Round 3, 2024: Essendon v St.Kilda

[Imtellingya]

6 goals up with 2 mins left and first thought is often "so they win every further clearance and 20 seconds for goal?" maths equations. As you know we be bottling it and they be lifting to win the match from us.

I reckon we are one season behind Essendon in terms of list build and we did well to nearly pull this off. They drafted heavily over the last 2-3 seasons and those draftees are finally maturing and this season they went down the FA path in recruiting Gresham, McKay and Goldstein to top off their list.

 

[Remboy]

An impatient (and justly so) fan base somewhat overreacting. I hate losing to that mob, but we barely gloved a mark or hit a target.

Bonner has played three games for the club. Bit early to put lines through people.

Considering our obvious inability to score in the last quarter, subbing off Sharman was probably an error, but was not unfair on Sharman based on output. Caminiti fine but not Max King.

Yep, if we kick straight we win comfortably. Just have to keep building. Just keep in mind Owens, Windy, NWM haven't played 50 games yet.
We're building but we're not there yet.

 

[MordySaint]

Had the long weekend to analyse what happened and I haven't really moved on from the result or the performance yet.

We got reamed by Goldstein and Draper. Two quality ruckman vs one.

Have always rated Goldstein as a great ruckman and have no idea why we didn't go for him. Our only backup is Campbell who never gets a game anyway.

Any thoughts on why we overlooked Draper and left Campbell on our list?

 

[The Punter]

Had the long weekend to analyse what happened and I haven't really moved on from the result or the performance yet.

We got reamed by Goldstein and Draper. Two quality ruckman vs one.

Have always rated Goldstein as a great ruckman and have no idea why we didn't go for him. Our only backup is Campbell who never gets a game anyway.

Any thoughts on why we overlooked Draper and left Campbell on our list?

My understanding is we didn't overlook Draper, we didn't get him. We offered, he stayed at The Hangar.

I'd like to see how effective either of them were when not rucking. I sort of think we have a very good situation having Marshall, and we need to kind of accept it is what we have, and most other teams would rather have what we have. It's not perfect. Melbourne tried for perfect last season and it didn't work until they just backed Gawn in by himself.

We need what just about every team needs: a key position forward who can give proper performance five minutes a quarter in the ruck. Jack Hayes is the closest we have.

Having said that, it's time we shelved Owens as relief ruck. Funny thing is, next week we can probably get away with it.

 

[Remboy]

My understanding is we didn't overlook Draper, we didn't get him. We offered, he stayed at The Hangar.

I'd like to see how effective either of them were when not rucking. I sort of think we have a very good situation having Marshall, and we need to kind of accept it is what we have, and most other teams would rather have what we have. It's not perfect. Melbourne tried for perfect last season and it didn't work until they just backed Gawn in by himself.

We need what just about every team needs: a key position forward who can give proper performance five minutes a quarter in the ruck. Jack Hayes is the closest we have.

Having said that, it's time we shelved Owens as relief ruck. Funny thing is, next week we can probably get away with it.

It will be interesting to see what they do if Hayes gets through the next month and starts playing well in the VFL.

 

[MordySaint]

My understanding is we didn't overlook Draper, we didn't get him. We offered, he stayed at The Hangar.

I'd like to see how effective either of them were when not rucking. I sort of think we have a very good situation having Marshall, and we need to kind of accept it is what we have, and most other teams would rather have what we have. It's not perfect. Melbourne tried for perfect last season and it didn't work until they just backed Gawn in by himself.

We need what just about every team needs: a key position forward who can give proper performance five minutes a quarter in the ruck. Jack Hayes is the closest we have.

Having said that, it's time we shelved Owens as relief ruck. Funny thing is, next week we can probably get away with it.

Sorry Freudian slip - I knew we had gone after Draper... "big time" and literally thrown the kitchen sink to get him over the line. The sentence should have said why we didn't go after Goldstein. Would have been a more effective backup than Campbell.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Probably a bit to do with Goldy not being interested in being Roma’s back up.

Ross has shown that he prefers to go with extra run over a 2nd ruck.


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[Saintbloke]

I reckon our midfield is stuffed, regardless of who goes in there. Can't put together four quarters as a unit, and seem the get the ball stripped off them too easy at centre bounces and stoppages- don't get enough of the ball to do enough on the scoreboard. I know Steele and Ross try hard, but that kind of setup won't get us deep in the finals. Windy is a bit in and out, and I don't think Dow will improve things hugely. One can only hope.

 

[Cro19]

The team isn't the finished product by any means, and Saturday was bloody painful. But we're essentially a couple of straight kicks off being 3-0 with the same availability woes as last year.

 

[The_Steadier]

The team isn't the finished product by any means, and Saturday was bloody painful. But we're essentially a couple of straight kicks off being 3-0 with the same availability woes as last year.

Same problem areas too which year after year aren't being addressed:

Crap midfield and 1 solo ruckman who can't ruck.

(Bar max) All our best players are approaching 30.

By the time our team is a 'finished product' (ie the likes of owens, pou, windy etc are guns), all our current best players will be b and c graders due to age.

Our list is a mess

 

[The Punter]

Same problem areas too which year after year aren't being addressed:

Crap midfield and 1 solo ruckman who can't ruck.

(Bar max) All our best players are approaching 30.

By the time our team is a 'finished product' (ie the likes of owens, pou, windy etc are guns), all our current best players will be b and c graders due to age.

Our list is a mess

Owens and NWM finished top five in the B&F last year in their second seasons.

Only one player in the competition averaged at least 20 disposals, 26 hit outs and 5 clearances per game: Rowan Marshall.

So the point on our best players and ruckman are just not correct.

I think we have the midfield cattle, they just need to become more consistent. Look at Windy's season so far: Rounds 1 & 3 ordinary, Round 2 excellent. Also playing Owens as a full time inside mid would help his output.

 

[gubby88]

Same problem areas too which year after year aren't being addressed:

Crap midfield and 1 solo ruckman who can't ruck.

(Bar max) All our best players are approaching 30.

By the time our team is a 'finished product' (ie the likes of owens, pou, windy etc are guns), all our current best players will be b and c graders due to age.

Our list is a mess

Most of our best are in the 24 and under category, so unsure where you have pulled that from

 

[MordySaint]

Crap midfield and 1 solo ruckman who can't ruck.

I've been banging on about our midfield since 2011.

We haven't taken steps to address it:

2011 - 2016 : obsessed with running bank flankers in the Luke Hodge model

2017 - 2021 : obsessed with recruitment of experienced campaigners from other clubs

2022 +++ : just taking the best available at the time.

At no point have we made it a priority to build a midfield with depth.

 

[BrutThough]

Essendon v St Kilda​

9 Andrew McGrath

1

Andrew Mcgrath

Age

26

Ht

180cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.7

5star

K

11.6

4star

HB

11.1

5star

M

1.6

2star

T

6.4

5star

MG

252.9

4star

D

22.7

5star

K

11.6

4star

HB

11.1

5star

M

1.6

2star

T

6.4

5star

MG

252.9

4star

D

22.0

5star

K

11.0

4star

HB

11.0

5star

M

1.2

2star

T

6.4

5star

MG

219.0

4star

(ESS)
5 Zach Merrett (ESS)
4 Nic Martin (ESS)
4 Sebastian Ross

6

Sebastian Ross

Age

31

Ht

187cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

26.3

5star

K

13.7

5star

HB

12.6

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

4.1

5star

D

17.5

4star

K

8.9

4star

HB

8.6

4star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

2.1

4star

D

15.2

4star

K

8.6

4star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.0

5star

CL

2.8

5star

(STK)
3 Jack Steele

9

Jack Steele

Age

28

Ht

187cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.9

5star

K

8.7

3star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

6.8

5star

CL

3.6

5star

D

21.3

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

11.3

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

5.8

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

16.8

4star

K

5.0

2star

HB

11.8

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

6.4

5star

CL

3.6

5star

(STK)
2 Dyson Heppell (ESS)
2 Bradley Hill (STK)
1 Xavier Duursma

28

Xavier Duursma

Age

24

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.5

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

8.5

5star

M

5.4

5star

T

2.1

4star

CL

1.6

4star

D

13.0

3star

K

8.8

4star

HB

4.3

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.3

3star

CL

0.5

3star

D

16.8

4star

K

8.4

4star

HB

8.4

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.0

4star

CL

1.6

4star

(ESS)

Coaches' votes, R3: Big Blue makes a move, Swan still leads

The coaches' votes are in for the round three games

www.afl.com.au

 

[The Punter]

Essendon v St Kilda​

9 Andrew McGrath (ESS)
5 Zach Merrett (ESS)
4 Nic Martin (ESS)
4 Sebastian Ross (STK)
3 Jack Steele (STK)
2 Dyson Heppell (ESS)
2 Bradley Hill (STK)
1 Xavier Duursma (ESS)

Coaches' votes, R3: Big Blue makes a move, Swan still leads

The coaches' votes are in for the round three games

www.afl.com.au

So the coaches almost agreed on McGrath and didn't come close to agreeing on anything else.

 

[saintmike65]

Same problem areas too which year after year aren't being addressed:

Crap midfield and 1 solo ruckman who can't ruck.

(Bar max) All our best players are approaching 30.

By the time our team is a 'finished product' (ie the likes of owens, pou, windy etc are guns), all our current best players will be b and c graders due to age.

Our list is a mess

It’s very difficult attracting top players to a small, unsuccessful club, therefore we need to develop our own, something we’ve been doing the last couple of years but should’ve been doing much sooner!

 

[Cro19]

Same problem areas too which year after year aren't being addressed:

Crap midfield and 1 solo ruckman who can't ruck.

(Bar max) All our best players are approaching 30.

By the time our team is a 'finished product' (ie the likes of owens, pou, windy etc are guns), all our current best players will be b and c graders due to age.

Our list is a mess

What midfielder was available last year? The people currently running the show can't magically fix everything in one offseason. Our likely 2nd and 3rd mids are injured, Windy and Pou still learning, Jones building but unreliable, Clark MIA again. There's been a pretty consistent approach to drafting the last 3 years and early signs are they've nailed a fair few of those picks.

This is best crop of young players we've had in nearly 20 years.

There's no guarantees on player longevity but have a look at some of the older blokes that played in the last two premierships. If we get this right the next two/three years there's no reason Steele and Sinclair won't be contributing to a contending side.

 

[saintmike65]

What midfielder was available last year? The people currently running the show can't magically fix everything in one offseason. Our likely 2nd and 3rd mids are injured, Windy and Pou still learning, Jones building but unreliable, Clark MIA again. There's been a pretty consistent approach to drafting the last 3 years and early signs are they've nailed a fair few of those picks.

This is best crop of young players we've had in nearly 20 years.

There's no guarantees on player longevity but have a look at some of the older blokes that played in the last two premierships. If we get this right the next two/three years there's no reason Steele and Sinclair won't be contributing to a contending side.

Poor drafting for over a decade can’t be fixed quickly, however we seem to have made a positive start

 

[Nutsngum]

I've been banging on about our midfield since 2011.

We haven't taken steps to address it:

2011 - 2016 : obsessed with running bank flankers in the Luke Hodge model

2017 - 2021 : obsessed with recruitment of experienced campaigners from other clubs

2022 +++ : just taking the best available at the time.

At no point have we made it a priority to build a midfield with depth.

Exactly how much depth do you think any team in the competition actually carries? We are down 3 best 22 midfielders right now. Any team in the comp is going to struggle with that in regards to pure inside work.

 

[saintmike65]

Exactly how much depth do you think any team in the competition actually carries? We are down 3 best 22 midfielders right now. Any team in the comp is going to struggle with that in regards to pure inside work.

I honestly doubt that we’d have passed up on opportunity to draft Petracca, Bontempelli & Touk Miller if we had Gubby, Dalrymple & SOS back then!

 

[The_Steadier]

Most of our best are in the 24 and under category, so unsure where you have pulled that from

Give it a couple of years and they will ALL be past their best.

Even if (huge IF), the likes of pou etc kick on to be guns; they are just going to be replacing the likes of steele, hill, sincs, marshall, wilkie.

We're setting up for permanent mid table mediocrity.
Avoiding bottom 4 for a decade isn't my idea of what success looks like.

 

[saintmike65]

Exactly how much depth do you think any team in the competition actually carries? We are down 3 best 22 midfielders right now. Any team in the comp is going to struggle with that in regards to pure inside work.

We’ll be a different team once we get Dow, Wood, Henry & Clark in there..hopefully it won’t be too late!
Hayes could be handy too!!

 

[saintmike65]

View attachment 1947128


Give it a couple of years and they will ALL be past their best.

Even if (huge IF), the likes of pou etc kick on to be guns; they are just going to be replacing the likes of steele, hill, sincs, marshall, wilkie.

We're setting up for permanent mid table mediocrity.
Avoiding bottom 4 for a decade isn't my idea of what success looks like.

Bloody hell, you’re a Ray of sunshine

 

[beside the seaside]

View attachment 1947128


Give it a couple of years and they will ALL be past their best.

Even if (huge IF), the likes of pou etc kick on to be guns; they are just going to be replacing the likes of steele, hill, sincs, marshall, wilkie.

We're setting up for permanent mid table mediocrity.
Avoiding bottom 4 for a decade isn't my idea of what success looks like.

Geelong seem to manage ok.

Honestly bottom four is a horrible place to be and can be very hard to get out of.

 

[True Believer]

View attachment 1947128


Give it a couple of years and they will ALL be past their best.

Even if (huge IF), the likes of pou etc kick on to be guns; they are just going to be replacing the likes of steele, hill, sincs, marshall, wilkie.

We're setting up for permanent mid table mediocrity.
Avoiding bottom 4 for a decade isn't my idea of what success looks like.

I hate to disrupt the dystopian theme you seem to have going on, but you realise the list management team doesn't just stop here and call it a day, yeah? You do realise that the idea is that you keep on tipping in more high-level talent via the draft and trading so that the team gets better?