List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[SaintsSeptember]

Well yes, but:

1/ His knee if it as bad as rumoured/speculated may not allow him to
2/ The club and/or could opt to pay him out

Having said that the lack of Crouch this season is one of the key reasons why we have won less games this season.

He has the talent and ability to play on next year that is for sure. He might just be short one serviceable knee. Personally I would like it they can get his knee good enough for him to play a whole season again. But, they may not be able to.

 

[kernelT]

He's a good tap ruck but not much else IMO. Pretty much moving sideways from Campbell. I thought Campbell played a good game against the Lions. We won clearance against a better midfield and a lot was his tap work giving us an easier ride.

The danger with replacing Marshall is that he's our most competitive player and our only guy that sees to be able to tempo shift and power us up. It's also only a positive if to replace him with someone as good , ist doesn't end up costing more than we receive.

This draft is very average and not one you'd get too excited about having too much skin in. Clubs would be happy to trade out of high picks IMO.

It kinda feels like we’re trying to dismantle the list and replace our good players with shit players and lotto tickets.

 

[Teflon]

Can you indicate the period Billings was poor under Alan Richardson? Trailed off under Ratten (but really only post mid-2021) and never got a real chance under Lyon.

Could you indicate the period under any coach - apart from a game here or there - where Billings was a dominant on field presence and lived up to his lofty top 3 draft pick status ?

 

[akaifu]

Fin Callinan should also be on our radar.
Shame about Crouch

Membrey is toast, was never dynamic but now looks well past it.

I am embarrassed when I watch Billings play even for Melbourne, he was our ace…turned joker

Callaghan putting off talks to the end of the season could be a big opportunity for us to go hard for someone that will transform our list. Ex-Sandy boy and we've previously been linked with him. Offer him Stengle's money + more if its not enough. Up to $1 mil. I reckon a Battle compo + future 2nd could tempt the Giants. Keeps our 2024 draft hand unchanged, and losing a 2nd rounder from next year

I'm dreaming though, why would he want to come to us ):

 

[SteeleSaints]

Could you indicate the period under any coach - apart from a game here or there - where Billings was a dominant on field presence and lived up to his lofty top 3 draft pick status ?

I wasn't going to but I'll buy in. IMO Billings has been a less than a average impact footballer his entire career. He will go down as one of Trouts worst draft choices. The guy is a complete introvert who cant handle any physical or mental pressure out on the field. People will quote the number of games he has played, but if he had of been recruited at any of the power clubs he would have been traded out much earlier in his career. At 28 he is still nothing but a fringe player and that has never changed.

Recruiting Billings was a complete and absolute bust for our club, in another draft year when we were screaming for quality alpha male midfielders, Trout went for the alter boy. And you are correct I didn't rate the kid from day 1 and couldn't believe what the club saw in him to invest such an early pick in.

 

[gringo2011]

Fin Callinan should also be on our radar.
Shame about Crouch

Membrey is toast, was never dynamic but now looks well past it.

I am embarrassed when I watch Billings play even for Melbourne, he was our ace…turned joker

Callaghan would be ideal.

 

[gringo2011]

I agree, but Pitt has a couple years more than Campbell and when he plays for the Blues as solo ruck, they play very well - obviously before TDK broke out. I remember hearing something late last year about how good Pitt is at giving his mids first use. He's 100% a decent AFL ruckman and if we can get him for cheap, we must consider it

Campbell is done next year, if not this year, and we're going to have to find some sort of cover anyways if Heath's development stalls and we can't find a young replacement.

The draft is average but beggers cant be choosers, we have a clear plan of action and this plan would've been developed by SOS etc knowing the standard of this draft - they chose to hit the draft this year only a year in advance where you'd have a decent idea how good it is. And its a midfielders draft, which suits our list profile to a tee. We are almost guaranteed one of Smith, Draper, Lalor. If a key tall jumps high and Battle leaves us with band 1, we'll get two of them

Pittonet costs a pick though. Campbell means we can wait until someone better and younger comes on the market. If he was free or close to it maybe. I’d be playing Moose to see what he can do too. He’s improving heaps

 

[gringo2011]

Callaghan putting off talks to the end of the season could be a big opportunity for us to go hard for someone that will transform our list. Ex-Sandy boy and we've previously been linked with him. Offer him Stengle's money + more if its not enough. Up to $1 mil. I reckon a Battle compo + future 2nd could tempt the Giants. Keeps our 2024 draft hand unchanged, and losing a 2nd rounder from next year

I'm dreaming though, why would he want to come to us ):

If we have cap space chase him and Stengle. We are much closer then.

 

[gringo2011]

It kinda feels like we’re trying to dismantle the list and replace our good players with shit players and lotto tickets.

We need more elite players….. I know let’s sell off the ones we have and hope that one we draft turns out to be as good.

 

[Teflon]

He's turned "Hill's career around.He hasn't turned a whole lot of careers around. Marshall, Steele, Sinclair, Wilkie, Sinclair, Hill etc all were featuring in multiple B and Fs. Hill is noticeably better under Lyon. Membrey, Ross, King, Howard, Jones etc are all noticeably worse.

Kids like Nas were already playing games and looking on track. It's actually been a bit disappointing that he hasn't been able to polish up a few players and turn them into consistent soldiers. That was his best skill once. Taking GOPs and giving them a defined role that extracted all of the ability that they did have.

Ratts probably had more of an impact on getting the most out of his players. Guys like Battle, Marshall and Sinclair all went from fringeblayers or GOPs to guns.

Perception is a funny thing
I think Nas has gone another level under Lyon, Battle now looks settled far better, Howard to me is having one of his best seasons just needs to get on the park - he’s playing within his limits ..
Marshall clearly better and that’s only looking at this season that’s been a down year excluding how players went last year when we made finals.
1.5yrs into his tenure probably too early to be definitive on Lyons influence here

 

[Teflon]

So 2019 when he played every game and averaged more disposals and clearances than in 2017?

Some of this revisionist history is instructive. I'm happy to concede he didn't kick on like we all wanted him too, but a lot of the commentary about most of his time at St Kilda is just not at all accurate.

I think we can safely look over ever 7 years and draw the conclusion he was disappointing
I don’t think that in any way is controversial
The club paid part of his salary so he’d leave ..

 

[Teflon]

Under Richo/Ratten, when he couldn’t hack it as a half forward who kicks goals/assists (like Higgins), he played the run back to HB role and became the spare man when we won the ball in the backline.. basically the spare wingman..easiest position to play, that’s why he accumulated ok numbers.. but did nothing with the ball most times, either a side way chip or long bomb forward, is a typical beige player..

Spot on
I think the revisionist romanticism has kicked in on here
Tip 3 draft pick
Disappointing imo
Wasn’t recruited to be “good depth at Sandy..”

 

[Mat Mann]

For me .. Membrey, Jones, Crouch, Ross & Hayes all look well roasted

Webster, Wood & Campbell should be kept

I can see either Stocker or Hastie replacing Webster though we definitely need to solidify our ruck stocks ... Wood harder to replace on the wing with his defensive and attacking capabilities coupled with his elite kicking, running and marking skills

we need to get Darcy into the game more, move Maso to the HFF and get him to mentor Darce

 

[Teflon]

Those players were brought in because the culture was rooted. Not because they thought the window was open.

I could’ve sworn the club came out at the time saying we were “in the window”
I was surprised…but anyhoo

 

[Sarcoidevo]

we need to get Darcy into the game more, move Maso to the HFF and get him to mentor Darce

Aren't they playing at the moment on opposite wings?

 

[Sarcoidevo]

I wasn't going to but I'll buy in. IMO Billings has been a less than a average impact footballer his entire career. He will go down as one of Trouts worst draft choices. The guy is a complete introvert who cant handle any physical or mental pressure out on the field. People will quote the number of games he has played, but if he had of been recruited at any of the power clubs he would have been traded out much earlier in his career. At 28 he is still nothing but a fringe player and that has never changed.

Recruiting Billings was a complete and absolute bust for our club, in another draft year when we were screaming for quality alpha male midfielders, Trout went for the alter boy. And you are correct I didn't rate the kid from day 1 and couldn't believe what the club saw in him to invest such an early pick in.

His 2017 & 2019 seasons were very good and throughout his time with us he had to contend with an array of injuries incl. a debilitating back injury.

His junior years also stacked up better than his other contemporaries incl the Bont who came late from the clouds and for the most part was never considered a top 10 prospect during that draft year

Hindsight is a wonderful thing

 

[Mat Mann]

Aren't they playing at the moment on opposite wings?

HillI I think, Darcy more HFF

 

[seasonedsainter]

Twomey on 'Gettable' on AFL site basically saying it's 50/50 with Battle, both Saints & Hawks offers sound like they're very very similar. They also said Melbourne and Collingwood had been sniffing around but it's between us/Hawthorn. They also said the size of deal would trigger first round compo & they'd take the picks!

 

[bergholt]

 

[ScrappyDo]

I could’ve sworn the club came out at the time saying we were “in the window”
I was surprised…but anyhoo

I recall them saying the window would open about this year. The expectation being that we'd have grabbed a couple of FAs and the kids had come on.
Those kids all got serious injuries and the FA was Cordy.
Meanwhile Ross, Membrey and Jones have hit a premature end by the looks of it. And Ratten was a dud.

 

[Joffaboy]

I wasn't going to but I'll buy in. IMO Billings has been a less than a average impact footballer his entire career. He will go down as one of Trouts worst draft choices. The guy is a complete introvert who cant handle any physical or mental pressure out on the field. People will quote the number of games he has played, but if he had of been recruited at any of the power clubs he would have been traded out much earlier in his career. At 28 he is still nothing but a fringe player and that has never changed.

Recruiting Billings was a complete and absolute bust for our club, in another draft year when we were screaming for quality alpha male midfielders, Trout went for the alter boy. And you are correct I didn't rate the kid from day 1 and couldn't believe what the club saw in him to invest such an early pick in.

Yet it was known at the time he was a genuine no.3. I know for an absolute fact through my Bulldog contacts they would have taken him.
It was not a bad pick, he is compared to a once in a gen Bont who was a speculator by the Dogs.
He has played 166 games. Unfortunately he is only a GOP, certainly not a bust.

You post is absolute hindsight, it was at worst a safe selection.
Now if you want to talk about bad selections, Paddy over Petracca will go down as possibly the worst no.1 pick this century.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[gringo2011]

Perception is a funny thing
I think Nas has gone another level under Lyon, Battle now looks settled far better, Howard to me is having one of his best seasons just needs to get on the park - he’s playing within his limits ..
Marshall clearly better and that’s only looking at this season that’s been a down year excluding how players went last year when we made finals.
1.5yrs into his tenure probably too early to be definitive on Lyons influence here

Nas is a kid who'd only played one year before he arrived. He'd played every game he was fit for. Sometimes you get a star kid who fast tracks. I'm not sure what Lyon can take credit for him. Perhaps for sending him to HBF but can't remember if that was Ratts or Lyon.

Marshall had only played 13 games before 2019 when Ratts took over half way through the year. He broke out in year 3 dominating that year. Ryder came in for 2020 and his numbers went backwards but not horribly. He was injured in 2021 and only played 13 games but on stats was tracking similar.

Not sure I'd credit Lyon for turning a GOP into a star. All I'm saying is that I don't think he's had the same impact as far as turning a bunch of solid GOPs into an army of hardened competitors and moved fringe players into roles that maximised them.

 

[BrutThough]

Nas is a kid who'd only played one year before he arrived. He'd played every game he was fit for. Sometimes you get a star kid who fast tracks. I'm not sure what Lyon can take credit for him. Perhaps for sending him to HBF but can't remember if that was Ratts or Lyon.

Neither get that credit - the move was all Enright.

 

[ScrappyDo]

His 2017 & 2019 seasons were very good and throughout his time with us he had to contend with an array of injuries incl. a debilitating back injury.

His junior years also stacked up better than his other contemporaries incl the Bont who came late from the clouds and for the most part was never considered a top 10 prospect during that draft year

Hindsight is a wonderful thing

Yes his contract years were both good and the rest weren't. Funny bout that.

 

[stavro#4]

Nas is a kid who'd only played one year before he arrived. He'd played every game he was fit for. Sometimes you get a star kid who fast tracks. I'm not sure what Lyon can take credit for him. Perhaps for sending him to HBF but can't remember if that was Ratts or Lyon.

Marshall had only played 13 games before 2019 when Ratts took over half way through the year. He broke out in year 3 dominating that year. Ryder came in for 2020 and his numbers went backwards but not horribly. He was injured in 2021 and only played 13 games but on stats was tracking similar.

Not sure I'd credit Lyon for turning a GOP into a star. All I'm saying is that I don't think he's had the same impact as far as turning a bunch of solid GOPs into an army of hardened competitors and moved fringe players into roles that maximised them.

I’ve just given you 2019,2022 and a comparison of 2023 v 2024 For Marshall.

There is a very clear jump in output and it coincides with Lyon.

Similar increases for Wilkie. Wood and Battle.

Nas has doubled his output. Owens a very clear jump aswell.

Sincs very much on par with his 2022.

The one who has gone backwards… Steele.