Oppo Camp 2024 Finals Discussion (other games)

[Ned Ryerson]

Yep it’s a good stat. Sydney don’t play the mcg well but hardly got a chance to adapt. Brisbane got a trial run vs cats to adapt game style. It’s the curse of the non-vic teams - rack up wins during season then exposed at MCG when it matters.

The Lions don’t have to adapt their game style though - that’s why their MCG form was always purely mental. The Gabba is the closest ground in the league to having the same dimensions as the MCG - its only a few metres shorter and skinnier than the MCG. Of any away team that can play their natural game at the MCG - the Lions are it.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Where does Neale stack up compared to the best midfielders of the last 25 years?

I’ll say this much - he is tougher than the ‘so brave’ Selwood by miles but doesn’t come close to getting that kind of credit. Just because he’s not ducking into tackles and busting his head open - the commentators seem to be missing that he’s a far braver player. That he told the club staff to not tell him what his injury was so he could just go out and play - worsen the injury on game day and then still turn in that performance is just massive. No fake tough guy shit with bandages wrapped around his head - just got the job done.

 

[MasterSamurai]

Just on King's comment, he said " Swans by 6 to 8 goals" in which the fox footy guy printed, 68 points!! Then King just said just leave it as it is in a dismissive kinda way. That's actually exactly what happened.

 

[seysearles]

The premiership window was looking shaky after the finals week 2 but it pulled through again. Quite amazing.

 

[toomanysquibs]

I’ll say this much - he is tougher than the ‘so brave’ Selwood by miles but doesn’t come close to getting that kind of credit. Just because he’s not ducking into tackles and busting his head open - the commentators seem to be missing that he’s a far braver player. That he told the club staff to not tell him what his injury was so he could just go out and play - worsen the injury on game day and then still turn in that performance is just massive. No fake tough guy shit with bandages wrapped around his head - just got the job done.

Selwood literally invented that arm raise, duck and buckle at the knees that everyone is so up in arms about when players like Ginni and Wiz do it.

He's the architect of one of the most hated aspects of the modern game.

Neal is more skilled, quicker, and tougher.

But the most offensive thing about Selwood imo was the pouting when he lost. It's a character flaw imo. Big time sook on that front.

Never seen a guy so widely lauded, yet so grossly offensive for two fairly hefty reasons.

Was a good player. But could cut up and sook with the best of them.

I'd take Neal every day of the week, no reasons to dislike him other than he doesn't play at the Hawks.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Neal or Selwood? Umm Selwood every day. Great player and leader

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Neal or Selwood? Umm Selwood every day. Great player and leader

Not sure how, after this finals series especially, Neale doesn’t get put in the same category of being a great player and leader. Selwood never came close to having to captain a side through the kind of adversity the Lions had this season.

 

[I got the outside word]

Neal or Selwood? Umm Selwood every day. Great player and leader

I agree. Neale is good but Selwood would put the team on his shoulders. Unfortunately.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Not sure how, after this finals series especially, Neale doesn’t get put in the same category of being a great player and leader. Selwood never came close to having to captain a side through the kind of adversity the Lions had this season.

Selwood always lifted when his team needed him. Neale a really good player but Selwood is a great. I hate saying it but for me I can't deny it

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I agree. Neale is good but Selwood would put the team on his shoulders. Unfortunately.

How exactly is 35 touches, 18 contested possessions, 9 clearances and 11 score involvements in a GF while playing injured not putting your team on your shoulders? His stats in the prelim were as impressive.

Selwood’s ‘courage’ and leadership are the second biggest myth in the history of the sport behind Paul Roos.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Selwood always lifted when his team needed him. Neale a really good player but Selwood is a great. I hate saying it but for me I can't deny it

And for all his vaunted leadership he led his perpetually contending side to a solitary premiership as captain and oversaw multiple prelim losses or straight sets exits. Great player for sure - but his courage/leadership for mine were always a media construct.

 

[SSSSSS]

How exactly is 35 touches, 18 contested possessions, 9 clearances and 11 score involvements in a GF while playing injured not putting your team on your shoulders? His stats in the prelim were as impressive.

Selwood’s ‘courage’ and leadership are the second biggest myth in the history of the sport behind Paul Roos.

Went at 88% as well. With a bung foot which he felt snap midway through the game.

Incredible performance. Stiff not to win the Normie but could have raffled it among 5-6 Lions players.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

That Lions premiership really does show you that the game is played above the shoulders.

They were 40pts down against the Giants, looked gone. Almost the same story against the Cats, although not the same margin to claw back.
They found that 5% and it was enough to have them steamroll the Giants at home.

People will bang on about how they’re going to go back to back, like they do with every premier, but that game just proves that if any side lifts the foot off the pedal they will get swallowed up.

 

[toomanysquibs]

Not sure how, after this finals series especially, Neale doesn’t get put in the same category of being a great player and leader. Selwood never came close to having to captain a side through the kind of adversity the Lions had this season.

He put the Lions on his shoulders in the GF imo.

Pushed deep back to strengthen them up, broke lines on the way back out. Was damaging in the contest and on the outside.

18 contested and 18 uncontested possessions according to AFL tables, though he somehow had just the 35 touches.

Lions had a lot of winners, he was the chief difference maker to my eye.

31 in the PF, 35 in the GF with a foot injury through the whole series.

 

[Brishawk]

Neale playing in queensland and Perth probably hurts his reputation but his career accomplishments out do selwood (premierships aside of course). Selwood leads AAs but has 2 less bnfs (3 v 5) and no brownlows (to 2 for neale). Neale also with the aflca champion.

Neale

• AFL premiership captain: 2024
• 2× Brownlow Medal: 2020, 2023
• Brisbane Lions co-captain: 2023–
• Leigh Matthews Trophy: 2020
• AFLCA champion player of the year: 2020
• Lou Richards Medal: 2020
• 4× All-Australian team: 2019, 2020, 2022, 2024
• 2× Doig Medal: 2016, 2018
• 3× Merrett–Murray Medal: 2019, 2020, 2022
• 2× Geoff Christian Medal: 2016, 2018
• 22under22 team: 2015
• 3× Ross Glendinning Medal: 2014, 2015, 2018
• 2× Marcus Ashcroft Medal: 2020, 2023

Selwood

• 4× AFL premiership player: (2007, 2009, 2011, 2022)
• AFL premiership captain: (2022)
• 6× All-Australian team: (2009, 2010, 2013(c), 2014(c), 2016(c), 2017)
• 4× AFLPA Robert Rose Most Courageous Player Award: (2009, 2012, 2013, 2014)
• 3× Carji Greeves Medal: (2010, 2013, 2014)
• Geelong captain: (2012–2022)
• AFLPA best captain award: (2013)
• Herald Sun Player of the Year: (2014)
• Ron Evans Medal: (2007)
• AFLPA best first-year player award: (2007)
• 2x Peter Badcoe VC Medal: (2016, 2018)
• AFLCA best young player award: (2008)
• Pre-season premiership player: (2009)
• Michael Tuck Medal: (2009)
• Australian IRS captain: (2014)
• Most games played as an AFL captain (245 games)
• Most wins as an AFL captain (160 wins)
• Jim Stynes Community Leadership Award (2022)
• Most finals ever played (40

 

[rei154]

Neale playing in queensland and Perth probably hurts his reputation but his career accomplishments out do selwood (premierships aside of course). Selwood leads AAs but has 2 less bnfs (3 v 5) and no brownlows (to 2 for neale). Neale also with the aflca champion.

Neale

• AFL premiership captain: 2024
• 2× Brownlow Medal: 2020, 2023
• Brisbane Lions co-captain: 2023–
• Leigh Matthews Trophy: 2020
• AFLCA champion player of the year: 2020
• Lou Richards Medal: 2020
• 4× All-Australian team: 2019, 2020, 2022, 2024
• 2× Doig Medal: 2016, 2018
• 3× Merrett–Murray Medal: 2019, 2020, 2022
• 2× Geoff Christian Medal: 2016, 2018
• 22under22 team: 2015
• 3× Ross Glendinning Medal: 2014, 2015, 2018
• 2× Marcus Ashcroft Medal: 2020, 2023

Selwood

• 4× AFL premiership player: (2007, 2009, 2011, 2022)
• AFL premiership captain: (2022)
• 6× All-Australian team: (2009, 2010, 2013(c), 2014(c), 2016(c), 2017)
• 4× AFLPA Robert Rose Most Courageous Player Award: (2009, 2012, 2013, 2014)
• 3× Carji Greeves Medal: (2010, 2013, 2014)
• Geelong captain: (2012–2022)
• AFLPA best captain award: (2013)
• Herald Sun Player of the Year: (2014)
• Ron Evans Medal: (2007)
• AFLPA best first-year player award: (2007)
• 2x Peter Badcoe VC Medal: (2016, 2018)
• AFLCA best young player award: (2008)
• Pre-season premiership player: (2009)
• Michael Tuck Medal: (2009)
• Australian IRS captain: (2014)
• Most games played as an AFL captain (245 games)
• Most wins as an AFL captain (160 wins)
• Jim Stynes Community Leadership Award (2022)
• Most finals ever played (40

Can't help but feel that Neale will always be criminally underrated due to playing for a Perth and QLD team.
Selwood was an incredible player, but I can't help but think I'd prefer prime Neale to prime Selwood.

 

[gambinotosserflog]

Neale playing in queensland and Perth probably hurts his reputation but his career accomplishments out do selwood (premierships aside of course). Selwood leads AAs but has 2 less bnfs (3 v 5) and no brownlows (to 2 for neale). Neale also with the aflca champion.

Neale

• AFL premiership captain: 2024
• 2× Brownlow Medal: 2020, 2023
• Brisbane Lions co-captain: 2023–
• Leigh Matthews Trophy: 2020
• AFLCA champion player of the year: 2020
• Lou Richards Medal: 2020
• 4× All-Australian team: 2019, 2020, 2022, 2024
• 2× Doig Medal: 2016, 2018
• 3× Merrett–Murray Medal: 2019, 2020, 2022
• 2× Geoff Christian Medal: 2016, 2018
• 22under22 team: 2015
• 3× Ross Glendinning Medal: 2014, 2015, 2018
• 2× Marcus Ashcroft Medal: 2020, 2023

Selwood

• 4× AFL premiership player: (2007, 2009, 2011, 2022)
• AFL premiership captain: (2022)
• 6× All-Australian team: (2009, 2010, 2013(c), 2014(c), 2016(c), 2017)
• 4× AFLPA Robert Rose Most Courageous Player Award: (2009, 2012, 2013, 2014)
• 3× Carji Greeves Medal: (2010, 2013, 2014)
• Geelong captain: (2012–2022)
• AFLPA best captain award: (2013)
• Herald Sun Player of the Year: (2014)
• Ron Evans Medal: (2007)
• AFLPA best first-year player award: (2007)
• 2x Peter Badcoe VC Medal: (2016, 2018)
• AFLCA best young player award: (2008)
• Pre-season premiership player: (2009)
• Michael Tuck Medal: (2009)
• Australian IRS captain: (2014)
• Most games played as an AFL captain (245 games)
• Most wins as an AFL captain (160 wins)
• Jim Stynes Community Leadership Award (2022)
• Most finals ever played (40

I'd call it even. Lachie isn't the leader Selwood was.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

That Lions premiership really does show you that the game is played above the shoulders.

They were 40pts down against the Giants, looked gone. Almost the same story against the Cats, although not the same margin to claw back.
They found that 5% and it was enough to have them steamroll the Giants at home.

People will bang on about how they’re going to go back to back, like they do with every premier, but that game just proves that if any side lifts the foot off the pedal they will get swallowed up.

I think, barring a rule change that disrupts their gameplan or Daniher retiring the Lions are a very good chance of repeating. I know it gets said about every side that wins the flag almost - but when you consider the players they get back from injury plus the younger Ashcroft they’re likely to be even better.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Neale playing in queensland and Perth probably hurts his reputation but his career accomplishments out do selwood (premierships aside of course). Selwood leads AAs but has 2 less bnfs (3 v 5) and no brownlows (to 2 for neale). Neale also with the aflca champion.

Neale

• AFL premiership captain: 2024
• 2× Brownlow Medal: 2020, 2023
• Brisbane Lions co-captain: 2023–
• Leigh Matthews Trophy: 2020
• AFLCA champion player of the year: 2020
• Lou Richards Medal: 2020
• 4× All-Australian team: 2019, 2020, 2022, 2024
• 2× Doig Medal: 2016, 2018
• 3× Merrett–Murray Medal: 2019, 2020, 2022
• 2× Geoff Christian Medal: 2016, 2018
• 22under22 team: 2015
• 3× Ross Glendinning Medal: 2014, 2015, 2018
• 2× Marcus Ashcroft Medal: 2020, 2023

Selwood

• 4× AFL premiership player: (2007, 2009, 2011, 2022)
• AFL premiership captain: (2022)
• 6× All-Australian team: (2009, 2010, 2013(c), 2014(c), 2016(c), 2017)
• 4× AFLPA Robert Rose Most Courageous Player Award: (2009, 2012, 2013, 2014)
• 3× Carji Greeves Medal: (2010, 2013, 2014)
• Geelong captain: (2012–2022)
• AFLPA best captain award: (2013)
• Herald Sun Player of the Year: (2014)
• Ron Evans Medal: (2007)
• AFLPA best first-year player award: (2007)
• 2x Peter Badcoe VC Medal: (2016, 2018)
• AFLCA best young player award: (2008)
• Pre-season premiership player: (2009)
• Michael Tuck Medal: (2009)
• Australian IRS captain: (2014)
• Most games played as an AFL captain (245 games)
• Most wins as an AFL captain (160 wins)
• Jim Stynes Community Leadership Award (2022)
• Most finals ever played (40

Note that the Robert Rose award is utterly meaningless also being that Luke Parker has more of them than Hodgey.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I think, barring a rule change that disrupts their gameplan or Daniher retiring the Lions are a very good chance of repeating. I know it gets said about every side that wins the flag almost - but when you consider the players they get back from injury plus the younger Ashcroft they’re likely to be even better.

Like I said though, it’s all above the shoulders.

People underestimate how hard it is to back it up and go again.

 

[I got the outside word]

How exactly is 35 touches, 18 contested possessions, 9 clearances and 11 score involvements in a GF while playing injured not putting your team on your shoulders? His stats in the prelim were as impressive.

Selwood’s ‘courage’ and leadership are the second biggest myth in the history of the sport behind Paul Roos.

Yeah, nah. You could have gotten them numbers against Saturdays Sydney, Ned. No one from Brisbane needed to be on Neale’s shoulders. Geelong hate bias aside Selwood would regularly bring the Cats back from the brink.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Yeah, nah. You could have gotten them numbers against Saturdays Sydney, Ned. No one from Brisbane needed to be on Neale’s shoulders. Geelong hate bias aside Selwood would regularly bring the Cats back from the brink.

Yeah, nah. 1 premiership in 11 seasons as captain does not a great leader make. And if you’re going to use a capitulating Sydney as a way of nullifying what Neale did on Saturday then Selwood’s only flag as captain barely counts also.

 

[mustang]

Sydney is all Midfielders not much of a forward line or backline a lot like us really and got smashed on the biggest stage, we have fixed our backline now we need to work on our forward line, we need to have a forward line that is like our 3peat one, like Brisbane have goals that can come from everywhere, it's getting there but needs more work, Dear, Watson, MacDonald, Ginnivan it's a great start.

 

[I got the outside word]

Yeah, nah. 1 premiership in 11 seasons as captain does not a great leader make. And if you’re going to use a capitulating Sydney as a way of nullifying what Neale did on Saturday then Selwood’s only flag as captain barely counts also.

I didn’t use Grand Finals as an example, you did, and the one you used was a dead rubber where no one needed to be on Neale’s shoulders.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Sydney is all Midfielders not much of a forward line or backline a lot like us really and got smashed on the biggest stage, we have fixed our backline now we need to work on our forward line, we need to have a forward line that is like our 3peat one, like Brisbane have goals that can come from everywhere, it's getting there but needs more work.

No, you’ve really got to stop with this “we have to do what we did 15 years ago” narrative in every post.

Besides, you quite literally just stated Sydney are all midfielders and got smashed, then said we need to have more midfielders, like they do. It makes no sense.