1st Test Border Gavaskar Trophy November 22-26 1350hrs @ Perth Stadium

[Blue1980]

Full credit to the Kiwis for what they did in India - they fully deserved the results they got. But I can't help thinking that the Indians had one eye on the tour of Australia: they're a completely different unit suddenly.

How we fight back from this, I have no idea. If Bumrah gets to bowl with the pink ball under lights in Adelaide, anything is possible.

The first test was India collapsing for one innings and the last 2 tests were close crap shoots on super spinning pitches.

So while it was 3-0 it wasn’t like NZ thrashed them every test.

 

[Freo Big Fella]

It's interesting to see people going back to the "there's no-one banging down the door!" myth, when we had both Bancroft, Webster and even McSweeney in solid-to-excellent shield form last summer.

But instead, the McDonald/Bailey/Cummins trifecta decided to indulge Smith's desire to play opener rather than taking the opportunity for a bit of renewal, because this current group loves nothing more than drinking their own bathwater.

It's fascinating to see Jaiswal, Reddy and Rana tearing us to shreds off the back of limited first class experience but their national set-up still being willing to back them in. But that would involve the team leadership looking at things like form and potential rather than vibes and golf handicap.

 

[Saint12]

Lol some fool on SEN demanding that Trevor Hohns gets sacked immediately.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Lol some fool on SEN demanding that Trevor Hohns gets sacked immediately.

Mario.
Sounded like the same Mario formally of Doncaster

 

[BStaff17]

It's interesting to see people going back to the "there's no-one banging down the door!" myth, when we had both Bancroft, Webster and even McSweeney in solid-to-excellent shield form last summer.

But instead, the McDonald/Bailey/Cummins trifecta decided to indulge Smith's desire to play opener rather than taking the opportunity for a bit of renewal.

It's fascinating to see Jaiswal, Reddy and Rana tearing us to shreds off the back of limited first class experience but their national set-up still being willing to back them in. But that would involve the team leadership looking at things like form and potential rather than vibes and golf handicap.

I think Bancroft has shown numerous times in his career when a spot is there for him to take he has melted like violet crumble.

52 runs @ 4.80 this summer when a opening spot was available and the other summers when spots were open for him take has generally been when he has been super poor.

That to me shows me he mentally isnt up for it when he can't handle the pressure to get selected.

Like seriously how does a main candidate for a test spot have 52 runs at 4.80 in FC cricket over 12 innings that's Glenn McGrath not a potential opener.

 

[Gavin Excell]

England and the WI face similar issues, but the reality is that our country's very best athletes don't elect to play cricket. The recent AFL draft had a heap of kids who excelled at both sports but in mid teens chose football.
India only has 1 sport

 

[Gavin Excell]

Lol some fool on SEN demanding that Trevor Hohns gets sacked immediately.

Awaiting another caller wanting team physio Errol Alcotts head

 

[eltrain]

It feels like what the English soccer team following is, more people seem to get off complaining about them losing then tying it into some culture war nonsense.

Nobody cares about this team when they win, in fact we whinge about how crap the opposition is and how cricket is uncompetitive. When they lose, particularly when they lose badly, all of a sudden everyone is a diehard fan who cares deeply.

 

[Freo Big Fella]

I think Bancroft has shown numerous times in his career when a spot is there for him to take he has melted like violet crumble.

52 runs @ 4.80 this summer when a opening spot was available and the other summers when spots were open for him take has generally been when he has been super poor.

Like seriously how does a main candidate for a test spot have 52 runs at 4.80 in FC cricket over 12 innings that's Glenn McGrath not a potential opener.

I'm not in any way suggesting he deserves it on current form, but when the opening spot was available last summer he'd scored 700+ runs at a tick over 50 for two summers in a row.

Cummins, McDonald and Bailey opted to indulge Warner's retirement tour and allow Smith to play at opener instead.

Now instead of giving him that run of 3-5 tests to acclimatise, we have Nathan McSweeney batting out of position against the best fast bowler on the planet. Doesn't seem like a demonstrable improvement.

 

[Blue1980]

Cricket is a mental game. You need to find an edge. We have lost ours. We are not as technically poor as people would suggest. Being too nice to India over the last 3 home series has worked well for us hasn't it.

It wasn’t an issue when we bowled them out for 150.

Our batting capitulating changed the whole dynamic of the match, and possibly the series.

 

[PhatBoy]

It wasn’t an issue when we bowled them out for 150.

Our batting capitulating changed the whole dynamic of the match, and possibly the series.

Exactly.

Didn’t see Jasprit Bumrah having to snarl and carry on and to get his team back in the game when he led his side onto the park after they were rolled for 150.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Exactly.

Didn’t see Jasprit Bumrah having to snarl and carry on and to get his team back in the game when he led his side onto the park after they were rolled for 150.

Is age a factor for the second innings bowling? Looked flat and non threatening

 

[Blue1980]

Nobody cares about this team when they win, in fact we whinge about how crap the opposition is and how cricket is uncompetitive. When they lose, particularly when they lose badly, all of a sudden everyone is a diehard fan who cares deeply.

I think part of it is the nature of test cricket when the margins of defeat can seem huge in an individual match.

Pakistan got smashed by an innings v England recently then won the last 2 tests comfortably. Often in cricket a bad hour here or there can send momentum the other way and make it seem like the sky is falling in.

Also as the matches go for a while it’s more time for people to emotionally get invested in the idea the sky is falling, and concoct all sorts of think pieces as to why.

It goes from general on field stuff about the players then to t20, culture wars etc.

 

[jannissary]

Is age a factor for the second innings bowling? Looked flat and non threatening

whole attack sans lyon (who's the oldest bowler) have been massacred playing shorter forms instead of building into form playing FC.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Nobody cares about this team when they win, in fact we whinge about how crap the opposition is and how cricket is uncompetitive. When they lose, particularly when they lose badly, all of a sudden everyone is a diehard fan who cares deeply.

We care when the Ashes are on and when we suck.

 

[PhatBoy]

Is age a factor for the second innings bowling? Looked flat and non threatening

Hazlewood bowled like a metronome the whole way through. Cummins has looked off for the whole game which every second poster has commented on with regard to his time off but JH had the same break and he’s not missed a beat so it’s hard to say one break was good and one was bad.

Age will catch up I guess at some point but S and C techniques are getting better all the time and we’ve just seen an Englishman remain their best and most durable bowler into his 40s

Starc and Cummins DID look tired by the end that was plain to see

 

[apollo_creed]

What has the test unit overall really ‘achieved’? If you put aside what is essentially a made up tournament where there is no round robin element, disproportionate weightings, teams forfeiting points for slow over rates etc etc - and look yes, well done for winning what was an equally weighted final (you sure as hell won’t hear a NZ supporter bemoaning the format that’s for sure after they won it) but leaving that out of it, as a test outfit, what has the side achieved?

Look at the good or great sides or even the ones that don’t get talked about all that often in elevated discussion:

- This, literally THIS actual India side has just come off 18 successive test series wins at home, an undefeated streak dating back to 2012 or something. They have won here twice, the gold standard for an Asian team. That alone is a huge thing but that 18 straight series wins…. That’s huge in itself. Australia has managed 13 wins in its last 18 at home. During that time Australia has lost and drawn its last two series in Sri Lanka, failed to make a dent in India though did go closer last time, has not beaten England and in a sign of how times have changed celebrated a draw last year. The Pakistan win was meritorious enough I guess and so was the Kiwi one but again sides of yesteryear would have probably won those not in the last session of the last match (Pakistan) and coming from behind (NZ).

The great sides of the modern era have been the Waugh and Ponting Australians who were dominant pretty much all the time and the South Africans under smith who didn’t drop an away series for an entire decade and who’s only losses came against Australia in two hard fought home series having finally conquered the Aussies in Australia.

It’s hard to come up with an argument that makes the current Aussie test side anything more than a side that’s just a bit above average realistically

They have still achieved things. That’s fact.

And you’re ignoring the posters idiotic point. Are they now losing because they’re ‘woke’?

 

[Aussie in exile]

England and the WI face similar issues, but the reality is that our country's very best athletes don't elect to play cricket. The recent AFL draft had a heap of kids who excelled at both sports but in mid teens chose football.
India only has 1 sport

The same in England.
The best athletes there are playing soccer, and more kids in the WI are turning to soccer and basketball.

 

[PhatBoy]

They have still achieved things. That’s fact.

And you’re ignoring the posters idiotic point. Are they now losing because they’re ‘woke’?

It’s not worth addressing honestly - the ‘they’re not winning because they’re not aggressive enough’ ones are bad enough

 

[western royboy]

Is age a factor for the second innings bowling? Looked flat and non threatening

Lack of hard game time is

 

[HirdsTheWord]

I'm not in any way suggesting he deserves it on current form, but when the opening spot was available last summer he'd scored 700+ runs at a tick over 50 for two summers in a row.

Cummins, McDonald and Bailey opted to indulge Warner's retirement tour and allow Smith to play at opener instead.

Now instead of giving him that run of 3-5 tests to acclimatise, we have Nathan McSweeney batting out of position against the best fast bowler on the planet. Doesn't seem like a demonstrable improvement.

I literally said this at the time.

There was zero point playing Warner knowing he was cooked, we could have blooded new openers against West Indies and Pakistan and given them experience prior to the 2024/25 series.

McSweeney has been thrown to the wolves here a bit. And Kawaja not even taking the first ball with 25 mins to survive is a ****in embarrassment for him. Should be ashamed.

Seems the whole team has drunk their own bathwater over winter.

 

[Black Diamond]

I wouldn't say that game started a new era.

Those 5 changes we made after that loss were Renshaw, Handscomb, Wade, Maddinson and Bird.

Neither of them were still in the test team 13 months later when we beat England in Perth to wrap up the ashes in 17/18

That match and those selections was also the start of what culminated in sandpapergate.

 

[MadMundy]

It feels like Australia just haven't prepared for life after the stars of the 2010s, the Smiths, Khawajas, Warners etc. Which is why it feels our top order just ain't great anymore.

I know Bancroft's current form isn't great but it feels like he's been passed over way too much, he'd probably be doing better than some of our top order right now.

 

[sherb]

Problem with dropping Marnus is where does he then play to get form back. There’s only 1 round of shield left & then it’s the hit & giggle Big Bash. Grade cricket? If he goes you can’t really bring him back for the rest of the series

Yep, that's a real problem, thanks to the brain surgeons at Cricket Australia.

Not only do we have the problem you highlight, it also means there is no long form cricket being played so players can put their hand up for inclusion in the Test team.

 

[sherb]

Cricket is a mental game. You need to find an edge. We have lost ours. We are not as technically poor as people would suggest. Being too nice to India over the last 3 home series has worked well for us hasn't it.

India found an "edge" alright, they outbowled and outbatted us. That's where the edge was, in ability and skill levels.