5th Test Border Gavaskar Trophy January 3-7 1000hrs @ the SCG

[Around the Wicket]

The commitment of senior Indian players is also being questioned, especially around the lack of first class matches for some, and that players have to decide if they're fully committed or not

I wouldn’t say any of those other stars are overly committed to FC fixtures either to be fair, most of them play 1 or 2 games a year.

 

[big_e]

The commitment of senior Indian players is also being questioned, especially around the lack of first class matches for some, and that players have to decide if they're fully committed or not

I know he cops some flak around these parts but it's pretty rich to be questioning the commitment of a man who has represented his country more than 500 times.

 

[PhatBoy]

Kohli’s commitment to India itself could never come under question, it’s his commitment to the betterment of India no matter the cost to his own pride that has to come under question.

I think a player as good as he has been, who has done it with such a good mix of nerve, bloody mindedness, and purity of technique, should never just be cast aside even after the length of time over which he’s struggled - which is reaching foghorn levels of alarm by this stage in the test arena. It simply cannot be ignored anymore.

BUT.

I believe that a stint of a dozen domestic games grinding out runs and remembering over 30 hours in blazing heat of how to just straight out play to a plan, and re-training himself, he can probably rejuvenate his game to a level where he can contribute something.

They wank on almost every summer about that innings Tendulkar played in Sydney in 03-04. I’ve never actually looked at a wagon wheel of whether he did in fact not play a cover drive for his first 150 runs or not (I went to the match and saw some of the innings but it was on day 3 at the very end of it). But Kohli is a player in one day cricket as mentally strong - probably stronger than Tendulkar - and for much of his test career was stronger too. You would imagine that he can find a way to ‘self-deny’ these shots that keep bringing him unstuck, until they become his bread and butter again.

 

[sr36]

Kohli’s commitment to India itself could never come under question, it’s his commitment to the betterment of India no matter the cost to his own pride that has to come under question.

I think a player as good as he has been, who has done it with such a good mix of nerve, bloody mindedness, and purity of technique, should never just be cast aside even after the length of time over which he’s struggled - which is reaching foghorn levels of alarm by this stage in the test arena. It simply cannot be ignored anymore.

BUT.

I believe that a stint of a dozen domestic games grinding out runs and remembering over 30 hours in blazing heat of how to just straight out play to a plan, and re-training himself, he can probably rejuvenate his game to a level where he can contribute something.

They wank on almost every summer about that innings Tendulkar played in Sydney in 03-04. I’ve never actually looked at a wagon wheel of whether he did in fact not play a cover drive for his first 150 runs or not (I went to the match and saw some of the innings but it was on day 3 at the very end of it). But Kohli is a player in one day cricket as mentally strong - probably stronger than Tendulkar - and for much of his test career was stronger too. You would imagine that he can find a way to ‘self-deny’ these shots that keep bringing him unstuck, until they become his bread and butter again.

For me it wasn't about how many he wafted at. I think the issue is more that he doesn't hold his line but chases it when it moves. Rarely played and missed outside off, nicked it every time he played at one he shouldn't have.

I do think it's about too much short form. He should play some county as he'd probably get away with it in most Ranji Trophy conditions.

 

[MarcMaverick]

Kohli’s commitment to India itself could never come under question, it’s his commitment to the betterment of India no matter the cost to his own pride that has to come under question.

I think a player as good as he has been, who has done it with such a good mix of nerve, bloody mindedness, and purity of technique, should never just be cast aside even after the length of time over which he’s struggled - which is reaching foghorn levels of alarm by this stage in the test arena. It simply cannot be ignored anymore.

BUT.

I believe that a stint of a dozen domestic games grinding out runs and remembering over 30 hours in blazing heat of how to just straight out play to a plan, and re-training himself, he can probably rejuvenate his game to a level where he can contribute something.

They wank on almost every summer about that innings Tendulkar played in Sydney in 03-04. I’ve never actually looked at a wagon wheel of whether he did in fact not play a cover drive for his first 150 runs or not (I went to the match and saw some of the innings but it was on day 3 at the very end of it). But Kohli is a player in one day cricket as mentally strong - probably stronger than Tendulkar - and for much of his test career was stronger too. You would imagine that he can find a way to ‘self-deny’ these shots that keep bringing him unstuck, until they become his bread and butter again.

100%. I don't know whether King Kholi was a media creation or whether it was Virat and his ego himself that made it. What I do know is that it would have benefited India if he took a couple of years off the international circuit and played FCC for say NSW, VIC, SA etc in the Sheffield Shield and then go over to the UK and play County Cricket for say a Somerset, Surrey, Middlesex etc.

 

[sabso]

100%. I don't know whether King Kholi was a media creation or whether it was Virat and his ego himself that made it. What I do know is that it would have benefited India if he took a couple of years off the international circuit and played FCC for say NSW, VIC, SA etc in the Sheffield Shield and then go over to the UK and play County Cricket for say a Somerset, Surrey, Middlesex etc.

Counties are having overseas players bedding in (ham) - marnus is a Glamorgan player, Simon harmer is Essex, I hope handscomb and mulder stay at Leicestershire.

Dunno which county kohli would choose. Probably Surrey or notts.

 

[Gough]

Counties are having overseas players bedding in (ham) - marnus is a Glamorgan player, Simon harmer is Essex, I hope handscomb and mulder stay at Leicestershire.

Dunno which county kohli would choose. Probably Surrey or notts.

I read somewhere Kohli is in the process of moving to England full time.

 

[sabso]

I read somewhere Kohli is in the process of moving to England full time.

Maybe he wants to qualify for us. You think he’s trashing his legacy now, wait til he’s dropped for Dan Lawrence.

 

[troybe]

Counties are having overseas players bedding in (ham) - marnus is a Glamorgan player, Simon harmer is Essex, I hope handscomb and mulder stay at Leicestershire.

Dunno which county kohli would choose. Probably Surrey or notts.

Beau Webster just signed for Warwickshire for a 3 month stint

 

[cats_09]

Kohli’s commitment to India itself could never come under question, it’s his commitment to the betterment of India no matter the cost to his own pride that has to come under question.

I think a player as good as he has been, who has done it with such a good mix of nerve, bloody mindedness, and purity of technique, should never just be cast aside even after the length of time over which he’s struggled - which is reaching foghorn levels of alarm by this stage in the test arena. It simply cannot be ignored anymore.

BUT.

I believe that a stint of a dozen domestic games grinding out runs and remembering over 30 hours in blazing heat of how to just straight out play to a plan, and re-training himself, he can probably rejuvenate his game to a level where he can contribute something.

They wank on almost every summer about that innings Tendulkar played in Sydney in 03-04. I’ve never actually looked at a wagon wheel of whether he did in fact not play a cover drive for his first 150 runs or not (I went to the match and saw some of the innings but it was on day 3 at the very end of it). But Kohli is a player in one day cricket as mentally strong - probably stronger than Tendulkar - and for much of his test career was stronger too. You would imagine that he can find a way to ‘self-deny’ these shots that keep bringing him unstuck, until they become his bread and butter again.

Tendulkar's wagon wheel has been doing the rounds, so thankfully not too hard to find
Here's only his boundary hitting:


Full wagon wheel

 

[sabso]

Tendulkar's wagon wheel has been doing the rounds, so thankfully not too hard to find
Here's only his boundary hitting:
View attachment 2205518

Full wagon wheel

View attachment 2205519

Such a well constructed innings, puts me in mind of this gem

 

[Lunchtime]

Such a well constructed innings, puts me in mind of this gem

This is the innings where Taylor made 129. This was the innings that saved his career. After this 129, his final 39 innings of his career yielded 1590 runs @ 45.42.

 

[Rabish Binney]

This is the innings where Taylor made 129. This was the innings that saved his career. After this 129, his final 39 innings of his career yielded 1590 runs @ 45.42.

Shared big partnership with Greg Blewett who got 125

 

[sr36]

Tendulkar's wagon wheel has been doing the rounds, so thankfully not too hard to find
Here's only his boundary hitting:
View attachment 2205518

Full wagon wheel

View attachment 2205519

Jeez. Did he put away the cut as well as the cover drive?

 

[troybe]

This is a turn up for the books, Ch7 have secured the rights for the Sri Lanka tests

 

[MarcMaverick]

This is a turn up for the books, Ch7 have secured the rights for the Sri Lanka tests

That's great!

Speaking of, I now fear Sri Lanka more than India.

 

[Soggy2112]

We have only had maybe six genuinely good leg spinners ever.

Warne
MacGill
Benaud
O’Reilly
Grimmett
Mailey

Lucky to average one each generation.

It is the most difficult discipline to learn and master. It is not like other nations are churning them out.

The other thing that I wonder with Australian cricket now, is how relevant is the skill set of leg spin in red ball cricket. Drop in pitches just don’t seem to fall apart the way the old wickets did, having a leg spinner who can make the ball talk on day 5 just doesn’t seem as much of a benefit, and no wrist spinner is ever going to be able to bowl with the same control (and probably extract the same bounce) as a high quality finger spinner can in the first innings of a test.

 

[Borisdog]

The other thing that I wonder with Australian cricket now, is how relevant is the skill set of leg spin in red ball cricket. Drop in pitches just don’t seem to fall apart the way the old wickets did, having a leg spinner who can make the ball talk on day 5 just doesn’t seem as much of a benefit, and no wrist spinner is ever going to be able to bowl with the same control (and probably extract the same bounce) as a high quality finger spinner can in the first innings of a test.

The difference between a good leg spinner and a good finger spinner is turn at any stage of the match.

A good leggie can turn it on anything, and any day. As opposed to the multitude of "leggies" playing hit and giggle now who just roll it out, instead of ripping it out, in the name of said control.

If it was easy there'd be heaps of them. I'll still take a good leggie in Australia over ANY finger spinner.

There's a massive place for them in red ball cricket. The problem is there's simply none good enough. At the moment.

 

[getthefooty]

The other thing that I wonder with Australian cricket now, is how relevant is the skill set of leg spin in red ball cricket. Drop in pitches just don’t seem to fall apart the way the old wickets did, having a leg spinner who can make the ball talk on day 5 just doesn’t seem as much of a benefit, and no wrist spinner is ever going to be able to bowl with the same control (and probably extract the same bounce) as a high quality finger spinner can in the first innings of a test.

It really makes you appreciate how truly great Warne was. Growing up watching him it just seemed normal that we had him, but he was arguably a once in a century aberration. He had similar control to an off spinner but could rip it on any surface. I would love to see another leggie play a significant amount of tests for Australia but as each year passes, I am more and more willing to accept that I'll be very lucky to see another in my lifetime.

 

[JimmyBC]

Real leg spinners the ones that really rip it and give it air need the love of a captain, I really don't think the modern players have the patience to nuture it.

 

[sr36]

It really makes you appreciate how truly great Warne was. Growing up watching him it just seemed normal that we had him, but he was arguably a once in a century aberration. He had similar control to an off spinner but could rip it on any surface. I would love to see another leggie play a significant amount of tests for Australia but as each year passes, I am more and more willing to accept that I'll be very lucky to see another in my lifetime.

I just wish Rashid Khan played for a country that played regular test cricket. I'd love to see what he became as a test match bowler.

 

[Bletch]

Real leg spinners the ones that really rip it and give it air need the love of a captain, I really don't think the modern players have the patience to nuture it.

Yep, agree, but... Been wondering for a while whether there's more to it than this. Has T20 "ruined" potentially good (test quality) wrist spinners? The demand to bowl flatter and faster, and bring out your change up deliveries two or three times an over instead of once every 3 or 4 overs? The advancement in command of the sweep and reverse sweep? Quality of bats (mishits traveling further)?

I don't know, and I'm not sure there's any way we can know. Time will tell, I guess. But I'm missing leg-spin.

 

[sr36]

Yep, agree, but... Been wondering for a while whether there's more to it than this. Has T20 "ruined" potentially good (test quality) wrist spinners? The demand to bowl flatter and faster, and bring out your change up deliveries two or three times an over instead of once every 3 or 4 overs? The advancement in command of the sweep and reverse sweep? Quality of bats (mishits traveling further)?

I don't know, and I'm not sure there's any way we can know. Time will tell, I guess. But I'm missing leg-spin.

There never has been many good ones. They're a rarity. But I think the biggest change recently is results based pitches and balls. It's changed the dynamic. It's no longer won by deceiving the batsman or waiting for the error. The pitch does it for you. On spinning or seaming pitches hitting the line or length and taking advantage of the pitches variations is king.

 

[Bletch]

There never has been many good ones. They're a rarity. But I think the biggest change recently is results based pitches and balls. It's changed the dynamic. It's no longer won by deceiving the batsman or waiting for the error. The pitch does it for you. On spinning or seaming pitches hitting the line or length and taking advantage of the pitches variations is king.

True on the first point, and I think we discussed that a week or so back. Legspin is a fine art, and the masters have been few and far between. I don't need another Warne (as much as I'd love it), a Higgs would do me fine.

However, I'm not convinced that "result pitches" is anything particularly new. It's a change from maybe the previous 15-20 years, but I think we saw a greater variety and variability in pitches in the 70s, 80s, 90s than we do now. But again, I think the short form game might be a factor here. While batsmen now are way better at sweeping (inc. reverse) than in the past, I think the quality of batting in testing conditions has dropped considerably. The number of top order batsmen worldwide who lack basic defensive attributes is astounding. imo.

 

[Soggy2112]

The difference between a good leg spinner and a good finger spinner is turn at any stage of the match.

A good leggie can turn it on anything, and any day. As opposed to the multitude of "leggies" playing hit and giggle now who just roll it out, instead of ripping it out, in the name of said control.

If it was easy there'd be heaps of them. I'll still take a good leggie in Australia over ANY finger spinner.

There's a massive place for them in red ball cricket. The problem is there's simply none good enough. At the moment.

The point is just how good a bowler has to be to have that control, and rip it like you say.

There’s arguably only been one guy in history able to do that.

Compared to Lyon, whose skill set is extremely effective, when his main weapons is how he’s able to get up and over the ball to create that bounce, and his ability to land the ball in the exact same place all with different amounts of speed, drop and drift.

The likelihood of a guy repeating what Lyon can do is far higher than anyone getting remotely near what Warne could do.