1st Test Border Gavaskar Trophy November 22-26 1350hrs @ Perth Stadium

[PhatBoy]

It wasn’t an issue when we bowled them out for 150.

Our batting capitulating changed the whole dynamic of the match, and possibly the series.

Exactly.

Didn’t see Jasprit Bumrah having to snarl and carry on and to get his team back in the game when he led his side onto the park after they were rolled for 150.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Exactly.

Didn’t see Jasprit Bumrah having to snarl and carry on and to get his team back in the game when he led his side onto the park after they were rolled for 150.

Is age a factor for the second innings bowling? Looked flat and non threatening

 

[Blue1980]

Nobody cares about this team when they win, in fact we whinge about how crap the opposition is and how cricket is uncompetitive. When they lose, particularly when they lose badly, all of a sudden everyone is a diehard fan who cares deeply.

I think part of it is the nature of test cricket when the margins of defeat can seem huge in an individual match.

Pakistan got smashed by an innings v England recently then won the last 2 tests comfortably. Often in cricket a bad hour here or there can send momentum the other way and make it seem like the sky is falling in.

Also as the matches go for a while it’s more time for people to emotionally get invested in the idea the sky is falling, and concoct all sorts of think pieces as to why.

It goes from general on field stuff about the players then to t20, culture wars etc.

 

[jannissary]

Is age a factor for the second innings bowling? Looked flat and non threatening

whole attack sans lyon (who's the oldest bowler) have been massacred playing shorter forms instead of building into form playing FC.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Nobody cares about this team when they win, in fact we whinge about how crap the opposition is and how cricket is uncompetitive. When they lose, particularly when they lose badly, all of a sudden everyone is a diehard fan who cares deeply.

We care when the Ashes are on and when we suck.

 

[PhatBoy]

Is age a factor for the second innings bowling? Looked flat and non threatening

Hazlewood bowled like a metronome the whole way through. Cummins has looked off for the whole game which every second poster has commented on with regard to his time off but JH had the same break and he’s not missed a beat so it’s hard to say one break was good and one was bad.

Age will catch up I guess at some point but S and C techniques are getting better all the time and we’ve just seen an Englishman remain their best and most durable bowler into his 40s

Starc and Cummins DID look tired by the end that was plain to see

 

[apollo_creed]

What has the test unit overall really ‘achieved’? If you put aside what is essentially a made up tournament where there is no round robin element, disproportionate weightings, teams forfeiting points for slow over rates etc etc - and look yes, well done for winning what was an equally weighted final (you sure as hell won’t hear a NZ supporter bemoaning the format that’s for sure after they won it) but leaving that out of it, as a test outfit, what has the side achieved?

Look at the good or great sides or even the ones that don’t get talked about all that often in elevated discussion:

- This, literally THIS actual India side has just come off 18 successive test series wins at home, an undefeated streak dating back to 2012 or something. They have won here twice, the gold standard for an Asian team. That alone is a huge thing but that 18 straight series wins…. That’s huge in itself. Australia has managed 13 wins in its last 18 at home. During that time Australia has lost and drawn its last two series in Sri Lanka, failed to make a dent in India though did go closer last time, has not beaten England and in a sign of how times have changed celebrated a draw last year. The Pakistan win was meritorious enough I guess and so was the Kiwi one but again sides of yesteryear would have probably won those not in the last session of the last match (Pakistan) and coming from behind (NZ).

The great sides of the modern era have been the Waugh and Ponting Australians who were dominant pretty much all the time and the South Africans under smith who didn’t drop an away series for an entire decade and who’s only losses came against Australia in two hard fought home series having finally conquered the Aussies in Australia.

It’s hard to come up with an argument that makes the current Aussie test side anything more than a side that’s just a bit above average realistically

They have still achieved things. That’s fact.

And you’re ignoring the posters idiotic point. Are they now losing because they’re ‘woke’?

 

[Aussie in exile]

England and the WI face similar issues, but the reality is that our country's very best athletes don't elect to play cricket. The recent AFL draft had a heap of kids who excelled at both sports but in mid teens chose football.
India only has 1 sport

The same in England.
The best athletes there are playing soccer, and more kids in the WI are turning to soccer and basketball.

 

[PhatBoy]

They have still achieved things. That’s fact.

And you’re ignoring the posters idiotic point. Are they now losing because they’re ‘woke’?

It’s not worth addressing honestly - the ‘they’re not winning because they’re not aggressive enough’ ones are bad enough

 

[western royboy]

Is age a factor for the second innings bowling? Looked flat and non threatening

Lack of hard game time is

 

[HirdsTheWord]

I'm not in any way suggesting he deserves it on current form, but when the opening spot was available last summer he'd scored 700+ runs at a tick over 50 for two summers in a row.

Cummins, McDonald and Bailey opted to indulge Warner's retirement tour and allow Smith to play at opener instead.

Now instead of giving him that run of 3-5 tests to acclimatise, we have Nathan McSweeney batting out of position against the best fast bowler on the planet. Doesn't seem like a demonstrable improvement.

I literally said this at the time.

There was zero point playing Warner knowing he was cooked, we could have blooded new openers against West Indies and Pakistan and given them experience prior to the 2024/25 series.

McSweeney has been thrown to the wolves here a bit. And Kawaja not even taking the first ball with 25 mins to survive is a ****in embarrassment for him. Should be ashamed.

Seems the whole team has drunk their own bathwater over winter.

 

[Black Diamond]

I wouldn't say that game started a new era.

Those 5 changes we made after that loss were Renshaw, Handscomb, Wade, Maddinson and Bird.

Neither of them were still in the test team 13 months later when we beat England in Perth to wrap up the ashes in 17/18

That match and those selections was also the start of what culminated in sandpapergate.

 

[MadMundy]

It feels like Australia just haven't prepared for life after the stars of the 2010s, the Smiths, Khawajas, Warners etc. Which is why it feels our top order just ain't great anymore.

I know Bancroft's current form isn't great but it feels like he's been passed over way too much, he'd probably be doing better than some of our top order right now.

 

[sherb]

Problem with dropping Marnus is where does he then play to get form back. There’s only 1 round of shield left & then it’s the hit & giggle Big Bash. Grade cricket? If he goes you can’t really bring him back for the rest of the series

Yep, that's a real problem, thanks to the brain surgeons at Cricket Australia.

Not only do we have the problem you highlight, it also means there is no long form cricket being played so players can put their hand up for inclusion in the Test team.

 

[sherb]

Cricket is a mental game. You need to find an edge. We have lost ours. We are not as technically poor as people would suggest. Being too nice to India over the last 3 home series has worked well for us hasn't it.

India found an "edge" alright, they outbowled and outbatted us. That's where the edge was, in ability and skill levels.

 

[BGman]

How can you say that when they have not played test cricket ???

Konstas has talent and Inglis one of the form bats in the shield

Do people expect bloody Don Bradman type of performances in the shield to get picked ??

You reckon Boland can't do a job ?????....Murphy or Rocco for Lyon.....Johnstone Jhye Morris as the quicks when they are fit ?

I blame CA and George Bailey/ Ronnie McDonald specially for our present predicament by playing favorites and letting Warner stay past his used by date. They set a precedent doing that and now we are stuck with a fast ageing team that look as tho the modern game has passed them by. The BBCI saw the writing on the wall and jettisoned some former greats past their best to send us arguably their least experienced batting lineup in ages. With only Kohli from the old guard here as the team mentor.

 

[PhatBoy]

I blame CA and George Bailey/ Ronnie McDonald specially for our present predicament by playing favorites and letting Warner stay past his used by date. They set a precedent doing that and now we are stuck with a fast ageing team that look as tho the modern game has passed them by. the BBCI saw the writing on the wall as this must be the youngest, least experienced batting lineup India has sent to our shores in ages.

It is but it’s also missing a guy even older than Kohli through injury and another relatively experienced #3 through injury (albeit he’s still young but he has toured here before but he has 40 tests or so under his belt) who will come back into the team

 

[peternorth]

I literally said this at the time.

There was zero point playing Warner knowing he was cooked, we could have blooded new openers against West Indies and Pakistan and given them experience prior to the 2024/25 series.

McSweeney has been thrown to the wolves here a bit. And Kawaja not even taking the first ball with 25 mins to survive is a ****in embarrassment for him. Should be ashamed.

Seems the whole team has drunk their own bathwater over winter.

It is interesting....it stems back to when taylor was struggling and when journo asked if he should go back to shield level to find form he said no, it's best to play against the best (waqar and wasim).

test cricket is the pinnacle. they dont see it as a place to blood players, unless its compelling or....perhaps newbie is mates with senior players. otherwise, no one wants to give anyone else an opportunity.

 

[ABAB]

Exactly so there should have been no way any side doesn’t WIN the series outright a draw is almost losing it from there. Very average series

You do know what happened after the stumping and then change of ball.......

 

[LukeParkerno1]

An Ashes series goes for 5 matches. We went ahead early and losing Lyon in the second test was the decisive factor in not closing the series out easily.

Should we have eked out a series win? I think so, we were the better side but cricket doesn't always play to script and England did enough to square the ledger.

A good side wins that series 4-1 at worst. We are an okay side saved by two elite bowlers in Cummins and Hazelwood.

 

[peternorth]

I really want to be able to see some test cricket tonight after work.

 

[kickazz]

England and the WI face similar issues, but the reality is that our country's very best athletes don't elect to play cricket. The recent AFL draft had a heap of kids who excelled at both sports but in mid teens chose football.
India only has 1 sport

There are 18 teams x (38? list spots) in the AFL, so even if you are outside the top 400 you can still be a part of the system and earn a living.

Cricket just doesn't have the opportunities for the players that are not at the absolute top. Even if you are close, T20 is a much safer and potentially more lucrative option.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

You do know what happened after the stumping and then change of ball.......

What happened in the other two tests…it should have been 4-0 leading into the last but we played abysmal cricket.

 

[BGman]

It's interesting to see people going back to the "there's no-one banging down the door!" myth, when we had both Bancroft, Webster and even McSweeney in solid-to-excellent shield form last summer.

And this season a rejuvenated Henry Hunt and Tim Ward, the latter yesterday falling just short of his first ton in two years on a semi lively first day SCG deck. Is batting #3 this year too.

 

[ABAB]

ODI WC is a great achievement.
T20 WC nothing special. Happens every 2 years and England, India have also won it. We didn't even make it out of the group stages for two of them.
WTC nothing special. Uneven fixtures, points deductions and a one off final at a fixed venue.
Retaining the Ashes against an average England??? Win the Ashes not retain.

And then we let India pull down our pants at home thrice and can't even beat Sri Lanka away and West Indies at home.

You do know what happened after the stumping and then change of ball, not to mention the Wilson none decision the previous Ashes series in England, we had a very strong side with Smith and Marnus ranked the 1 and 2 batsmen in the world and Warner in the top 5, best fast bowling attack in the world and best spinner in the world.