List Mgmt. 2015 LIST Discussion - trades, free agency etc

[Jatz]

I think any talk of us getting a pick #1 PP is just the other side of the coin to the AFL's softening up campaign. Evans' comments yesterday were part one, this is part two.

Then in the end when Carlton and Brisbane have pick 1 and 2, and we get Band 2 for Kreuzer/Leuey, everyone just goes "hmm, fair enough".

Do you think it's likely to go Carlton, Brisbane, Carlton, Brisbane in the draft (provided Kreuze and Leuey both go)?

I don't know what to think with all this.

 

[bludrew79]

Can we please stop stressing about the Priority Pick issue!!!!

To put it to bed... Melbourne were denied last year...
AFL reasons...
-> Games won and % improvement
-> Beaten 2 finalists + 3 games < 9 points
-> High level young talent
-> ability to trade Mitch Clarke + FA Compo

Brisbane's Position.
-> Won 10 games in 2012 + 2013 (won 5 more games than melbourne last year) and 4 games this year =Melb 2014
-> Has beaten 1 finalist and within 3 kicks of another 3 finalists
-> 2014 RS winner + high level talent
-> a chance to gain FA Comp pick via Leuy

Also pure Points and % based on time of applications - point to this being decined
Have to agree Melbourne in a much worse position.
Also Brisbane's ladder position could also be linked to high amount of injuries during season.
When had a high amount of players available - was able to beat a finalist.

 

[KnobHead]

The AFL runs the competition, they set the rules and we all play under them.

some of those rules are discretionary, and basically if that discretion isn't exercised in our favour, or exercised in brisbane's fav our at our expense, well we just have to suck it up.

wed go down in a ball of flames trying to challenge that in Court - it's bad enough coming last on the footy field, don't want to also come last in Court. leave that for Hirdy.

a player, however, could look at challenging the AFL on his ability to move to other clubs which is restricted by the AFL , hence restrictive free agency. but that's different from the AFL's discretionary powers.

 

[goreds]

MK needs to pass a medical before anyone takes him...!

Hasn't passed one yet!

 

[krusher]

The AFL runs the competition, they set the rules and we all play under them.

some of those rules are discretionary, and basically if that discretion isn't exercised in our favour, or exercised in brisbane's fav our at our expense, well we just have to suck it up.

wed go down in a ball of flames trying to challenge that in Court - it's bad enough coming last on the footy field, don't want to also come last in Court. leave that for Hirdy.

a player, however, could look at challenging the AFL on his ability to move to other clubs which is restricted by the AFL , hence restrictive free agency. but that's different from the AFL's discretionary powers.

fair points

i think it comes down to Kruezer is a quality person and footballer about to really break out and tear the comp apart - lets just sign him up

 

[ShanDog]

People seem to think $500k is some kind of guarantee to get Band 1 compo and it MAY have been in the past. This year however we know that the $2.5billion TV deal means the Salary Cap will go up substantially from 2017 meaning for years 2+ offered on any FA deals, $500k will be worth much less as a proportion of the cap meaning it will no longer be the Band 1 decider.

Now some people may have trouble getting their heads around that, but if Kruezer is offered a 4 year deal at $500k per year, in years 2, 3 & 4, he will be on relatively much less than what $500k is valued at today. So a deal like that won't get Band 1 from the AFL like it did for Frawley last year because when the Frawley deal was done no one had any idea that the new TV deal would increase so dramatically and therefore the Salary Cap do the same.

Kruezer and Leuenberger end of first round would be my bet. I don't think the AFL would want to stuff up the very top of the draft order this year given it's the first year of points and future trading.

The salary cap goes up every year. Sure, there might be a slightly larger surge in how much it increases beyond what is already slated for 2016 as per the last deal, but it's very unlikely that it will be enough to somehow devalue a $500,000 contract in the way you are talking.

$500,000 as part of the 2016 $10.071m cap = 4.96% of the cap. The same contract amount when applied to a fictional 10% TPP increase each year to 2019 still represents 3.75% of the cap. Not a massive change. Not enough to argue that 500k isn't really 500k any more.

 

[ShanDog]

For anyone who is interested, this is what the reported $2.5m offer to Kreuzer over 4 years looks like as part of the above scenario:

 

[Gavstar]

MK needs to pass a medical before anyone takes him...!

Hasn't passed one yet!

Just hire whoever passed Daisy Thomas fit!

 

[bludrew79]

Just hire whoever passed Daisy Thomas fit!

 

[AB_Blue]

Just hire whoever passed Daisy Thomas fit!

Greg Swann works for Bris now....
Dr. Mick is available

 

[jj1978]

So if Kreuzer has failed so many medical tests.. why are we offering him 3 years at 500K+??? Just some media spin probably leaked by someone at AFL or other teams to either not give us band one or for a team to be pushed one spot back in a shallow draft (eg: Melbourne, Essendon)

 

[GT619]

MK needs to pass a medical before anyone takes him...!

Hasn't passed one yet!

Has he passed ours

 

[Moody Blue]

Brian Waldron on SEN categorically states Kreuzer will be at Collingwood next year and we will get a pick at the end of the First Round of the draft. The AFL has moved the goal posts again on Carlton and Brisbane as they now get pick 20 for Leuenberger. Joke.

 

[jezzajay]

ive said it before...i'll say it again - KEEP KREUZER!

 

[Matty411]

Yep, if it becomes increasingly likely the AFL shaft us with compo - just re-sign the big man and put it all to bed.

Although I've heard its in Kreuzer's court now - would hate to have severed the relationship from all this.

 

[Moody Blue]

Can we please stop stressing about the Priority Pick issue!!!!

To put it to bed... Melbourne were denied last year...
AFL reasons...
-> Games won and % improvement
-> Beaten 2 finalists + 3 games < 9 points
-> High level young talent
-> ability to trade Mitch Clarke + FA Compo

Brisbane's Position.
-> Won 10 games in 2012 + 2013 (won 5 more games than melbourne last year) and 4 games this year =Melb 2014
-> Has beaten 1 finalist and within 3 kicks of another 3 finalists
-> 2014 RS winner + high level talent
-> a chance to gain FA Comp pick via Leuy

Also pure Points and % based on time of applications - point to this being decined
Have to agree Melbourne in a much worse position.
Also Brisbane's ladder position could also be linked to high amount of injuries during season.
When had a high amount of players available - was able to beat a finalist.
View attachment 171382
View attachment 171385

3 Angus Brayshaw Melbourne Sandringham Dragons TAC Cup Free agency compensation pick (Frawley)

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Quite simply we match the offer. If Collingwood still want him we should get more than #19 for him in a trade. I'd rather keep him for $100k more per season than lose him for #19. Hell, I'd be torn losing him and getting #2.

However, it seems that Kreuzer now wants to leave. Not sure it is because we didn't shut the door on this approach sooner either. Think he has seen a faster way up the ladder, his family would be all Pies supporters and he is seeing a chance to win games with the club he supported.

The loyalty thing may well and truly have flown out the window. Maybe it has been that way all year if rumours are correct.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

3 Angus Brayshaw Melbourne Sandringham Dragons TAC Cup Free agency compensation pick (Frawley)

That's not a priority pick.

 

[Moody Blue]

I wonder what SOS thinks of Jaksch and Whiley and the deal he organised last year when he was at GWS?

 

[Moody Blue]

That's not a priority pick.

Correct. It was compensation which we will not get until 19. AFL moving the goal posts.

 

[jj1978]

Well how about we go to Juddy and say we'll give you some $$$ say you want to play again and your love for the game has reignited... but you want to play for some other melbourne club... Judd is a free agent (7years with us!) so free agent compo is about how much you've lost... so Kreuzer + Judd would net us Band 1 for sure...

Richmond in the box seat will grab Judd... Judd retires round 1. Win win!

 

[Moody Blue]

Can tell you for a fact that SOS is speaking to quite a few GWS players.Not the big names, but the second tier. There are quite a few that have been biding them their time waiting to come home.Could be interesting later in the draft.

 

[LFTWNG11]

Does anyone else get put off Carlisle by the fact he has put himself up for trade but not nominated Carlton? Others who have put themselves up for trade have nominated clubs, which I think indicates a desire to play at that particular club. Seems like Carlisle is happy to play wherever the money is and has no real concern about being part of a particular club. I might be reading too much into it, but surely we go for players who want to bleed for the jumper? Another Daisy Thomas would be devastating at this point.

 

[Blue Heart]

ive said it before...i'll say it again - KEEP KREUZER!

If it was for Pick 2 you would have to give the idea strong consideration ... but Pick No. 19 a very big NO !!!!!!!!!!

 

[BluesRule]

Similar to this, I think another scenario could be we have 1 & 2, they have 3 & 4, we trade 2 for 3 and a second round pick (so pick 20ish) and maybe another late round pick.

We then have 1 & 3 (plus an extra second round pick, possible extra late round), Brisbane 2 & 4

Everyone gets what they want.

Generally agree. But if the difference between pick #2 (Schache) and pick #3 (Francis or Parish?) is so great that the AFL have to change their own rules to stop it happening, then we should get two early first rounders being #3 and #4 (Leuy?). We have the worst list in the league, so I am told on BF, so we need Schache more than anyone else. I am sure he would be much happier in Melbourne than in Brisbane.