List Mgmt. 2015 LIST Discussion - trades, free agency etc

[HBF]

Geelong certainly haven't been a club that has thrown money around to get the big name players in the past, although i'm not sure what is happening with Dangerfield. I get the feeling Essendon will come along at some stage, especially if they lose Carlisle which looks likely. And I think Brisbane could be a potential suitor, as well as the Doggies.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Am I right that his manager is asking for 625k?

What is our current offer?

Imo he is worth 625k. Good kpp are hard to come by, he's worth that even as just a defender. Just look at the amounts of money being thrown around for other kpps like Carlisle, rance and what Boyd and crameri got , you always pay higher for them than mids.

And I can't see how we can't afford him when allegedley Geelong and bulldogs can

The club is still suffering from years of over paying players (big reason why Betts left cause he was upset that worse players were paid more than him, and when he came out of contract, the club wouldn't come to the party and make Eddie a fair offer.

I wouldn't pay Hendo more than 500 k per year, his performances just don't justify anything more at this point in time.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I wouldn't pay Hendo more than 500 k per year, his performances just don't justify anything more at this point in time.

Exactly you don't pay average forwards more then this also what defenders in the league would be on more?

 

[Cringle]

Would pick 20 be enough for Aish?

And would we do it?

 

[xtront16]

Would pick 20 be enough for Aish?

And would we do it?

The Lions would want more than pick 20! Especially if we obtain earlier picks thru trades for Yarran, Henderson etc. Though I feel pick 20 is probably about his worth.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

The Lions would want more than pick 20! Especially if we obtain earlier picks thru trades for Yarran, Henderson etc. Though I feel pick 20 is probably about his worth.

Not really, still think a pick between 5 - 10 is his correct market value, just depends which club he nominates.

 

[Weiterbot23]

If we lose hendo we should have some huge cap space.

We need to get someone for free via the PSD.

Even if it's only Will Langford, we need a quality player for free.

 

[Jeremias]

'Value' goes out the window if a player requests a trade or walks out on a club. A player's decreased value is diminished further if he nominates a specific club as his destination of choice.

Aish is a good young talent but there won't be a real bidding war for his services which would only ever happen if he were a superstar like Judd.

Our second round pick would be strictly speaking less than what he's 'worth' but history suggests the Lions will likely settle for something in that region as compensation.

 

[Doro]

Were Danger and Hendo mates at the Falcons? Same draft year, so there might be some substance to them both heading that way.

 

[BlueTongue]

i wouldn't exactly say that, leigh Mathews commented, that when hendo turned up at brisbane as a high pick, he was surprised at his lack of athleticism. Smart player and good skills for his size... would make an excellent third tall in a premiership team. I have not seen him dominate the type of key defenders most of the top teams sport... (lets just exclude zac dawson to strengthen my argument)

so what is that type of player worth? not A grader. if you are hope to win a premiership with this bloke on your list he probably needs to be about top 10-12

Carlton can however afford to over pay because apparently we lack depth and have to spend the cap on someone, maybe a payrise of warnock?

I will seriously spew if Warnock gets another contract for anything more than the Rookie list.

 

[ODNBlue]

The club is still suffering from years of over paying players (big reason why Betts left cause he was upset that worse players were paid more than him, and when he came out of contract, the club wouldn't come to the party and make made Eddie a fair offer.

I wouldn't pay Hendo more than 500 k per year, his performances just don't justify anything more at this point in time.

EFA.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

If we lose hendo we should have some huge cap space.

We need to get someone for free via the PSD.

Even if it's only Will Langford, we need a quality player for free.

To be fair mate, the last quality player who went into the PSD was Kurt Tippett, and that was under unusual circumstances, there was also only one player taken in the PSD last tear (Tutt), I think its becoming an irrelevant bargaining chip these days, sadly.

 

[Wickzki]

But on us paying "Big Bucks" what is that considered. Im not sure the attraction of anyone coming to the club is primarily dollars. Would Carton members feel we will offer LH more than Carlton would? I kind of doubt that.

I believe that Geelong will (or have) offered Henderson about $150-200k more than what Carlton would. That's not suggesting that you're going to be paying overs for him, either. That $150-200k may be in line to the value that he represents to your list in the immediate to medium length future whereas the lesser offer from our club would be genuinely reflect his position in what we would be looking to be a long term rebuild of the club. I think that gets easily forgotten in the overall scheme of things - players are worth different amount dependent upon the situation that they're in.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

"Carlton have revealed they wish to retain a strong core of senior players in rebuilding the playing list, and they will avoid the more ruthless culling of experienced players undertaken by other bottom teams"

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/carlto...rltons-recovery-strategy-20150617-ghqgv6.html

 

[The Coach]

"Carlton have revealed they wish to retain a strong core of senior players in rebuilding the playing list, and they will avoid the more ruthless culling of experienced players undertaken by other bottom teams"

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/carlto...rltons-recovery-strategy-20150617-ghqgv6.html

"So we're looking to keep some core strength in what we do. So – and this is a really important point – Murphy, Gibbs, Carrazzo, Simpson etc are really very important players to us"

'Core strength' is indeed what we need and for that reason we can afford to let Gibbs and an ageing Carrots go, unless we do not receive value for Bryce or Carrots plays for VERY small remuneration

 

[Heres Waite]

"So we're looking to keep some core strength in what we do. So – and this is a really important point – Murphy, Gibbs, Carrazzo, Simpson etc are really very important players to us"

'Core strength' is indeed what we need and for that reason we can afford to let Gibbs and an ageing Carrots go, unless we do not receive value for Bryce or Carrots plays for VERY small remuneration

It's interesting they didn't mention Henderson and Yarran in that group of core senior players (I know age wise they are not as old as the others, but I thought they would be senior players in our side as far as leadership goes). At the same time, they want to get as many picks as possible. I think they both might be going sadly.

 

[true blue19]

"Carlton have revealed they wish to retain a strong core of senior players in rebuilding the playing list, and they will avoid the more ruthless culling of experienced players undertaken by other bottom teams"

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/carlto...rltons-recovery-strategy-20150617-ghqgv6.html

A core group of murphy, Gibbs, Simpson and Carrazzo. So we will trade Henderson, yarran, kreuzer, walker, Jamison, tuohy, Rowe,Everitt, curnow, armfield, Ellard, warnock and Thomas. That's a lot of trades.

 

[Turbocat]

Geelong certainly haven't been a club that has thrown money around to get the big name players in the past, although i'm not sure what is happening with Dangerfield. I get the feeling Essendon will come along at some stage, especially if they lose Carlisle which looks likely. And I think Brisbane could be a potential suitor, as well as the Doggies.

I doubt the Dogs would have a heap of cap room. The last couple of years has seen them bring in Crameri ,and then Boyd and they apparently are still paying some of Griffen. Ess may have cap room but Id think they would be a hard sell to any player with choice till the whole "issue" is behind them.
But they would be clubs that are looking , players that are looking... if certain players move from clubs...yes they would have cap room. Im not sure it going to purely be a dollar , purely be a Premiership window that decides.
The only reason Geelong may endup having to offer huge dollar for him to move is the RFA , to avoid the Crows matching.

 

[Turbocat]

I believe that Geelong will (or have) offered Henderson about $150-200k more than what Carlton would. That's not suggesting that you're going to be paying overs for him, either. That $150-200k may be in line to the value that he represents to your list in the immediate to medium length future whereas the lesser offer from our club would be genuinely reflect his position in what we would be looking to be a long term rebuild of the club. I think that gets easily forgotten in the overall scheme of things - players are worth different amount dependent upon the situation that they're in.

200 is fair amount. The media had us as offering 500... so you would only offering 300-350? For a player of his age , talent etc. Frawley last year was getting offers 500-700 range. Yes he was a FA , but a similar age and talent range. If Carlton only off him that type of money , it that what he is on now? Is that an offer to entice him to move?

 

[Red Bull]

"Carlton have revealed they wish to retain a strong core of senior players in rebuilding the playing list, and they will avoid the more ruthless culling of experienced players undertaken by other bottom teams"

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/carlto...rltons-recovery-strategy-20150617-ghqgv6.html

Cutting through all Trigg's usual waffle , it appears to be as we suspected .
Of the players with real currency , Murphy and Gibbs will remain , leaving Henderson , Kruezer and Yarran on the table ... game on ...

 

[HBF]

200 is fair amount. The media had us as offering 500... so you would only offering 300-350? For a player of his age , talent etc. Frawley last year was getting offers 500-700 range. Yes he was a FA , but a similar age and talent range. If Carlton only off him that type of money , it that what he is on now? Is that an offer to entice him to move?

I think Hendo is already on 500, so Geelongs offer is somewhere around the 700k then.

 

[Ellas Ellas]

The club is still suffering from years of over paying players (big reason why Betts left cause he was upset that worse players were paid more than him, and when he came out of contract, the club wouldn't come to the party and make Eddie a fair offer.

I wouldn't pay Hendo more than 500 k per year, his performances just don't justify anything more at this point in time.

Not even sure they justify that TBH. He just hasn't come on, always injured, always dropping marks. When you consider what Betts was able to produce on a consistent basis and what this guy has done and then consider that we offered Betts 400k surely Hendo is worth only 300k?

 

[The Edukator]

People are kidding themselves if they think wet can rebuild without high picks that help us access what has a higher likelihood of accessing quality young players. In order to do this quality players must be traded out. It's hard but put your sentiments aside.

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[Weiterbot23]

To be fair mate, the last quality player who went into the PSD was Kurt Tippett, and that was under unusual circumstances, there was also only one player taken in the PSD last tear (Tutt), I think its becoming an irrelevant bargaining chip these days, sadly.

I don't understand why. Surely overpaying someone a couple of hundred thousand would be fair compensation for the boos, especially a fringe player or a player wanting to return home to Victoria.

Say will Langford is worth 350k, Hawks can only afford to pay him 270k and can't guarantee him a game. We need to pay 95% of the cap why don't we offer him overs on a heavily front ended contract.

"Will we've got a 4 year 420k front end contract sitting here for you, one condition you have to walk out on hawthorn".

Doesn't have to be Langford, but any youngish player that's shown enough at the top level.

If we are going to win a premiership/ be top 4 in 4-5 years we need to add as many quality players as possible. We should definitely be looking at paying above market value on a front end contract for a player that can help us.


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[ShanDog]

"Carlton have revealed they wish to retain a strong core of senior players in rebuilding the playing list, and they will avoid the more ruthless culling of experienced players undertaken by other bottom teams"

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/carlto...rltons-recovery-strategy-20150617-ghqgv6.html

The 'full salary cap' is an interesting bit of info given that a few posters here have suggested we have the cash to get a big name player, as well as the rubbish about Betts leaving a couple of years ago (we had the money but didn't want to pay overs etc). Ducks and drakes? Unless Trigg is just tuning his inner politician because we technically don't have room in the cap right now, but with some forced retirements at the end of the season and front-loaded contract structures we can actually afford two Dangerfields in 2016.

The part about keeping seniority really isn't that surprising. I guess they just wanted to clarify to people that a couple of big names weren't up for trade (Murphy and Gibbs) to reinforce the 'company line' now that Malthouse is gone. Of course, that still leaves 95% of our list as trade bait, so it's not really telling us a whole lot!